Q about Big Law - when you're an income partner, does the firm provide some billable work?

[Anonymous]

My DH moved from the federal government to an income partner position at a law firm in 2020. He has an expertise that the firm thought would be valuable.

The firm was great to give my DH a 2-year runway paying $300K, a fancy office, secretarial support, tech support, billing support, etc.

My DH had somewhat thought that the firm would give him some of their billable work, but they have not. So DH has built up his own book of business, but it basically just covers about 10 percent more than what the firm is paying him. He's still growing his practice, and I was kind of impressed that he built this on his own in less than 2 years. He thinks it has potential to grow.

Since DH came from the federal government, it's not like he was a senior associate who had years of experience working with the clients. So it's just taking him some time to build up business.

DH has recently had to turn away 3 substantial projects due to conflicts. This was hugely disappointing, but DH understands that this is part of how law firms work.

But now he's kind of wondering what the advantage is of being at a firm, or at least at this firm. The firm says that they love having him there because of his unique background, and they ask him to give CLE presentations to their clients. But they do not give him any billable work. (Maybe that's customary?) I don't think they're trying to push him out. But at the same time, after turning down those projects due to conflicts, he's kind of evaluating his current situation.

Any advice?

[Anonymous]

I left biglaw for govt so take this with a grain of salt - but I’ve never heard of a firm NOT giving work to an income partner. Sure they push them all to develop business but they usually hire an income partner to do the work (and supervise associates doing the work) that is brought in by the equity partner. Is there not an equity partner in his subject area so the firm truly needs to build a practice in that space? Or is there work that’s being hoarded?

Also 300k sounds low to me; some years ago when I left senior associates were making that, now I’m pretty sure mid levels are making that.

[Anonymous]

300 is insanely low for a V100 firm. Senior associates make 415 plus a bonus of around 100. An income partner should be making 500 minimum (including bonus). I assume DH is at a smaller firm.

Anyway, firms intend for income partners to serve clients brought in by the rainmakers, but it doesn’t always work out this way in practice. A lot of firms are terrible at evaluating their actual needs. I’ve seen plenty of partners lateral from the government and bill very little for 2-3 years before being pushed out. I would never go back to a firm unless I thought I could generate business myself (and it sounds like DH is having some success, which is good).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:300 is insanely low for a V100 firm. Senior associates make 415 plus a bonus of around 100. An income partner should be making 500 minimum (including bonus). I assume DH is at a smaller firm.

Anyway, firms intend for income partners to serve clients brought in by the rainmakers, but it doesn’t always work out this way in practice. A lot of firms are terrible at evaluating their actual needs. I’ve seen plenty of partners lateral from the government and bill very little for 2-3 years before being pushed out. I would never go back to a firm unless I thought I could generate business myself (and it sounds like DH is having some success, which is good).

OP here. This is very helpful feedback. Thanks to the poster.

My DH was OK making $300K because he figured he didn't want the firm to over-pay him for not having clients at the outset. So there's less pressure on the firm to let him go when his salary is not super high. (Plus, he was accustomed to making $175K in the government for many years.) If a senior associate is making 415, that's because they're billing a ton of hours. In contrast, my DH was doing a lot of business development for his first year, until the clients starting coming in during the second year (with small-ish projects).

My DH is confident that his existing clients will follow up if he leaves. I know that the firm likes the prestige of most of DH's clients, even though the clients are giving DH small-ish projects right now (hence bringing in $300K per year, which I know is low for a law firm.)

That's interesting about law firms being terrible at anticipating their needs, and then giving a lateral non-equity partner no work, and then pushing him out. I guess that could happen here too, but DH could just take his clients and maybe set up his own shop.

[Anonymous]

What you describe is not what an “income partner” is. My DH is an income partner. He is staffed on cases brought in by others or that he helped pitch, and makes more like $750k. There is never any “runway” at his firm for a lateral income partner because they’re not looking to take off for anything else. It sounds like what your husband has going on is that the firm was hoping he would bring in so much business he would make equity in 2 years, but also with such a low base they aren’t really upset that ramping up has not gone better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you describe is not what an “income partner” is. My DH is an income partner. He is staffed on cases brought in by others or that he helped pitch, and makes more like $750k. There is never any “runway” at his firm for a lateral income partner because they’re not looking to take off for anything else. It sounds like what your husband has going on is that the firm was hoping he would bring in so much business he would make equity in 2 years, but also with such a low base they aren’t really upset that ramping up has not gone better.

OP here. Thx for this input. I guess my DH is a glorified associate, but even an associate would get some billable work to do.

At least he gets the "partner" title, which is definitely helpful in trying to build up a book of business.

I guess his situation does not fit neatly into any category. He is paid a gross amount (and we get a schedule K instead of a W-2, creating a lot of extra tax work for me). I think he'll try to continue to build up his book of business, and then if more conflicts arise at the current firm, he'll leave for another firm or set up his own shop. DH seems content in the situation, even if he's kind of surprised and disappointed that no one has given him any billable work. He's looking on the bright side -- he likes being his own boss, and not having the hierarchy of the federal government. He's got plenty of leisure time. So it's not all bad.

[Anonymous]

OP, please check out www.abovethelaw.com

$300K is undeniably far below market rate--for a 4th year associate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you describe is not what an “income partner” is. My DH is an income partner. He is staffed on cases brought in by others or that he helped pitch, and makes more like $750k. There is never any “runway” at his firm for a lateral income partner because they’re not looking to take off for anything else. It sounds like what your husband has going on is that the firm was hoping he would bring in so much business he would make equity in 2 years, but also with such a low base they aren’t really upset that ramping up has not gone better.

OP here. Thx for this input. I guess my DH is a glorified associate, but even an associate would get some billable work to do.

At least he gets the "partner" title, which is definitely helpful in trying to build up a book of business.

I guess his situation does not fit neatly into any category. He is paid a gross amount (and we get a schedule K instead of a W-2, creating a lot of extra tax work for me). I think he'll try to continue to build up his book of business, and then if more conflicts arise at the current firm, he'll leave for another firm or set up his own shop. DH seems content in the situation, even if he's kind of surprised and disappointed that no one has given him any billable work. He's looking on the bright side -- he likes being his own boss, and not having the hierarchy of the federal government. He's got plenty of leisure time. So it's not all bad.

And what do you do, Wife?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you describe is not what an “income partner” is. My DH is an income partner. He is staffed on cases brought in by others or that he helped pitch, and makes more like $750k. There is never any “runway” at his firm for a lateral income partner because they’re not looking to take off for anything else. It sounds like what your husband has going on is that the firm was hoping he would bring in so much business he would make equity in 2 years, but also with such a low base they aren’t really upset that ramping up has not gone better.

OP here. Thx for this input. I guess my DH is a glorified associate, but even an associate would get some billable work to do.

At least he gets the "partner" title, which is definitely helpful in trying to build up a book of business.

I guess his situation does not fit neatly into any category. He is paid a gross amount (and we get a schedule K instead of a W-2, creating a lot of extra tax work for me). I think he'll try to continue to build up his book of business, and then if more conflicts arise at the current firm, he'll leave for another firm or set up his own shop. DH seems content in the situation, even if he's kind of surprised and disappointed that no one has given him any billable work. He's looking on the bright side -- he likes being his own boss, and not having the hierarchy of the federal government. He's got plenty of leisure time. So it's not all bad.

And what do you do, Wife?

🤣 OP DH must have sold her about this life changing career move, where he would be making the big bucks, but he was hired as some underpaid lackey but is fine with the limited hours for double the pay. Meanwhile OP had been shopping for beaches houses and suddenly realized the reality.

[Anonymous]

My takeaway here is that OP understands everything about her DH's position except that it's not at a BigLaw shop. He's an income partner that they may or may not care if he ever makes equity at a small law firm that is not on the Cravath scale. He has some kind of expertise that they use to bring in work (CLE presentations, etc.) but the equity partners keep it for themselves because the pie is not big. It doesn't sound like a terrible gig but he may want to shop his book around since so much of his work is getting conflicted out at this firm. Even coming on as counsel in a BigLaw firm would be a raise.

[Anonymous]

He needs to start working the other partners and sell his niche work to their client list of the other partners and expanding the work they do for their clients into his area (they'll split the credit; he needs to get a partner mentor to learn how it goes doen at this firm).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway here is that OP understands everything about her DH's position except that it's not at a BigLaw shop. He's an income partner that they may or may not care if he ever makes equity at a small law firm that is not on the Cravath scale. He has some kind of expertise that they use to bring in work (CLE presentations, etc.) but the equity partners keep it for themselves because the pie is not big. It doesn't sound like a terrible gig but he may want to shop his book around since so much of his work is getting conflicted out at this firm. Even coming on as counsel in a BigLaw firm would be a raise.

I tend to agree. I can't imagine any "income partner" in Biglaw getting paid so little money AND having no work sent their way. It's not the model, that's for sure. OP's husband has to be at a smaller shop.

OP, how big is your husband's law firm? How many lawyers in how many cities? You can tell us that without revealing the name of the firm.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, it doesn't sound like a great gig to me. I make slightly over $300K in-house with none of the anxiety associated with being a law-firm partner of any stripe (equity/income, rainmaker/service, etc.).

If your DH is getting paid $300K but only bringing in $330K in fees, and not getting other work, he's probably losing the firm money when you take operations into account. That makes him vulnerable to the whims of the firm's management committee, unless he starts getting more referred work or increases his billings substantially. And that would be the case whether the firm is a small firm or a top firm (which seems highly unlikely here).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you describe is not what an “income partner” is. My DH is an income partner. He is staffed on cases brought in by others or that he helped pitch, and makes more like $750k. There is never any “runway” at his firm for a lateral income partner because they’re not looking to take off for anything else. It sounds like what your husband has going on is that the firm was hoping he would bring in so much business he would make equity in 2 years, but also with such a low base they aren’t really upset that ramping up has not gone better.

OP here. Thx for this input. I guess my DH is a glorified associate, but even an associate would get some billable work to do.

At least he gets the "partner" title, which is definitely helpful in trying to build up a book of business.

I guess his situation does not fit neatly into any category. He is paid a gross amount (and we get a schedule K instead of a W-2, creating a lot of extra tax work for me). I think he'll try to continue to build up his book of business, and then if more conflicts arise at the current firm, he'll leave for another firm or set up his own shop. DH seems content in the situation, even if he's kind of surprised and disappointed that no one has given him any billable work. He's looking on the bright side -- he likes being his own boss, and not having the hierarchy of the federal government. He's got plenty of leisure time. So it's not all bad.

And what do you do, Wife?

OP here. I am in-house counsel at a Fortune 100 company. I've been the main breadwinner for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you describe is not what an “income partner” is. My DH is an income partner. He is staffed on cases brought in by others or that he helped pitch, and makes more like $750k. There is never any “runway” at his firm for a lateral income partner because they’re not looking to take off for anything else. It sounds like what your husband has going on is that the firm was hoping he would bring in so much business he would make equity in 2 years, but also with such a low base they aren’t really upset that ramping up has not gone better.

OP here. Thx for this input. I guess my DH is a glorified associate, but even an associate would get some billable work to do.

At least he gets the "partner" title, which is definitely helpful in trying to build up a book of business.

I guess his situation does not fit neatly into any category. He is paid a gross amount (and we get a schedule K instead of a W-2, creating a lot of extra tax work for me). I think he'll try to continue to build up his book of business, and then if more conflicts arise at the current firm, he'll leave for another firm or set up his own shop. DH seems content in the situation, even if he's kind of surprised and disappointed that no one has given him any billable work. He's looking on the bright side -- he likes being his own boss, and not having the hierarchy of the federal government. He's got plenty of leisure time. So it's not all bad.

And what do you do, Wife?

OP here. Not that it matters, but this is an inaccurate portrayal. We never knew how it would go, but figured it would be more lucrative than the federal government. We knew it was an unknown situation.


🤣 OP DH must have sold her about this life changing career move, where he would be making the big bucks, but he was hired as some underpaid lackey but is fine with the limited hours for double the pay. Meanwhile OP had been shopping for beaches houses and suddenly realized the reality.