how much overlap between honor physics and ap physics 1

[Anonymous]

DC took honors physics this year as an 11th grader and likes it. He wants to take AP physics next year, but is intimidated by what he has heard from peers about the AP physics C class, so he’d like to take AP physics 1, but his counselor is discouraging it as she says it is repetitive. DC is in ap calculus now and it has been a lot of work but done fine.

I regret not slowing down DC in maths classes, so I could see the wisdom in doing ap physics 1 if it retains DC’s subject interest. But the counselor of course knows more than I do about the classes.

If your child went from honors physics to ap physics 1, what are you thoughts? Or if you have familiarity with these classes, I’d appreciate thoughts and advice.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

This thread has some helpful info.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1032560.page

Hopefully the teachers will come back for your specific question.

[Anonymous]

I’m an AP physics teacher. Given that your child has taken calculus this year and also Honors Physics, AP Physics C is the most appropriate placement for him. The 1st quarter of AP Physics C is basically the same content as AP BC Calculus (kinematics). Ignore what he’s heard about the class, he is prepared for it.

AP Physics 1 is a very rigorous conceptual course - while some topics overlap with Honors Physics, the approach is different and more in depth at a faster pace. A misconception is that it is “easier” than AP Physics C. It’s not - the pass rate is one of the lowest of the APs compared to C which is one of the highest. But calculus is a barrier for many students, so this allows access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an AP physics teacher. Given that your child has taken calculus this year and also Honors Physics, AP Physics C is the most appropriate placement for him. The 1st quarter of AP Physics C is basically the same content as AP BC Calculus (kinematics). Ignore what he’s heard about the class, he is prepared for it.

AP Physics 1 is a very rigorous conceptual course - while some topics overlap with Honors Physics, the approach is different and more in depth at a faster pace. A misconception is that it is “easier” than AP Physics C. It’s not - the pass rate is one of the lowest of the APs compared to C which is one of the highest. But calculus is a barrier for many students, so this allows access.

I also teach AP Physics and I agree with everything said by the above teacher. For someone who has done Calculus and Honors Physics, AP Physics C makes sense. I also don’t think AP Physics 1 is easier than AP Physics C. The math in Physics C makes for somewhat more straightforward questions. Although E&M can be harder.

[Anonymous]

NP here. For the physics teachers out there — our school offers AP Physics C as both a single and double period. We’ve heard conflicting things as to whether they are the same content. Some say the single period is just M, but others say they are both M + E&M. Any insight or is it school specific?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. For the physics teachers out there — our school offers AP Physics C as both a single and double period. We’ve heard conflicting things as to whether they are the same content. Some say the single period is just M, but others say they are both M + E&M. Any insight or is it school specific?

Usually a single period means mechanics only.
Double period is mechanics + E&M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. For the physics teachers out there — our school offers AP Physics C as both a single and double period. We’ve heard conflicting things as to whether they are the same content. Some say the single period is just M, but others say they are both M + E&M. Any insight or is it school specific?

Usually a single period means mechanics only.
Double period is mechanics + E&M

Thanks. That’s what we thought but when DC said to a teacher might switch next year to double, teacher said same material just more class time. Guess we will find out for sure in the fall!

[Anonymous]

FWIW, a lot of colleges won't give credit for AP Physics C unless you did both EM and mechanics. I went to MIT, and you get no credit at all there unless you got a 5 in both. (And then it only gets you out of the Physics I (8.01) mechanics class; you still have to take EM again (8.02).)

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all from OP. DC is humanities/social sciences oriented so not worried about the college credit piece. Good advice, thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all from OP. DC is humanities/social sciences oriented so not worried about the college credit piece. Good advice, thank you!

Actually, as a humanities student taking AP Physics C, scoring a 4 or 5 is worth your while because it will satisfy science distribution requirements at many public universities. STEM majors are actually the ones better off taking physics again in college, because you learn more in depth the second time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an AP physics teacher. Given that your child has taken calculus this year and also Honors Physics, AP Physics C is the most appropriate placement for him. The 1st quarter of AP Physics C is basically the same content as AP BC Calculus (kinematics). Ignore what he’s heard about the class, he is prepared for it.

AP Physics 1 is a very rigorous conceptual course - while some topics overlap with Honors Physics, the approach is different and more in depth at a faster pace. A misconception is that it is “easier” than AP Physics C. It’s not - the pass rate is one of the lowest of the APs compared to C which is one of the highest. But calculus is a barrier for many students, so this allows access.

For what it is worth, comparison based on pass rates can be very misleading. You are probably right about OP's kid's placement in AP physics C, but I would question basing the difficulty of AP Physics 1 on the pass rate; the low pass rate could be because of who tends to take it (and when) and who skips it.

Unlike other science APs (like chem and biology) that have only one AP exam, physics has algebra based and calculus based options. For students who are anyway going to take the calc based AP Physics C exams, (for students that are planning to do Engineering in college, for example) algebra based AP Physics 1 and 2 exams are of not much value. Such students tend to skip AP Physics 1 & 2 exams and take only the physics C exams (DC knows a bunch of such kids). On the other end of the spectrum, unfortunately, there are folks - including educators - who think AP physics 1 is an easy course, and there are schools that "encourage" students to take AP physics 1 too soon (even in ninth grade) when the schools should know better. The cumulative effect is to bring down the pass rate in the algebra based AP physics exams.

I looked up the 2021 statistics https://allaccess.collegeboard.org/topic/ap-2021-scores - 48171 took AP Physics C Mechanics. 136,238 took AP Physics 1. Number of students that scored 3,4, or 5 in AP Physics 1 is 57220, more than the total number of students that took AP Physics C Mechanics. Number of students that scored 4 or 5 in AP Physics 1 is 31335, but for AP Physics C Mechanics, it is 25049. But the *rates* are high for AP Physics C Mechanics, even though absolute numbers are low, which makes me think there is a high probability of self selection. YMMV.

I don't understand why a student - especially a junior or senior, doing generally well academically and can handle algebra - will find AP physics 1 more challenging than AP Physics C (Mechanics).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an AP physics teacher. Given that your child has taken calculus this year and also Honors Physics, AP Physics C is the most appropriate placement for him. The 1st quarter of AP Physics C is basically the same content as AP BC Calculus (kinematics). Ignore what he’s heard about the class, he is prepared for it.

AP Physics 1 is a very rigorous conceptual course - while some topics overlap with Honors Physics, the approach is different and more in depth at a faster pace. A misconception is that it is “easier” than AP Physics C. It’s not - the pass rate is one of the lowest of the APs compared to C which is one of the highest. But calculus is a barrier for many students, so this allows access.

For what it is worth, comparison based on pass rates can be very misleading. You are probably right about OP's kid's placement in AP physics C, but I would question basing the difficulty of AP Physics 1 on the pass rate; the low pass rate could be because of who tends to take it (and when) and who skips it.

Unlike other science APs (like chem and biology) that have only one AP exam, physics has algebra based and calculus based options. For students who are anyway going to take the calc based AP Physics C exams, (for students that are planning to do Engineering in college, for example) algebra based AP Physics 1 and 2 exams are of not much value. Such students tend to skip AP Physics 1 & 2 exams and take only the physics C exams (DC knows a bunch of such kids). On the other end of the spectrum, unfortunately, there are folks - including educators - who think AP physics 1 is an easy course, and there are schools that "encourage" students to take AP physics 1 too soon (even in ninth grade) when the schools should know better. The cumulative effect is to bring down the pass rate in the algebra based AP physics exams.

I looked up the 2021 statistics https://allaccess.collegeboard.org/topic/ap-2021-scores - 48171 took AP Physics C Mechanics. 136,238 took AP Physics 1. Number of students that scored 3,4, or 5 in AP Physics 1 is 57220, more than the total number of students that took AP Physics C Mechanics. Number of students that scored 4 or 5 in AP Physics 1 is 31335, but for AP Physics C Mechanics, it is 25049. But the *rates* are high for AP Physics C Mechanics, even though absolute numbers are low, which makes me think there is a high probability of self selection. YMMV.

I don't understand why a student - especially a junior or senior, doing generally well academically and can handle algebra - will find AP physics 1 more challenging than AP Physics C (Mechanics).

The reason AP1 can be more challenging is that there is very little math emphasis in the course. Physics is easier with math. AP Physics 1 is a good course in the sense that it builds a strong foundation/deep understanding of conceptual physics. Kids who are good at math cannot skate by with their strong math skills. The questions tend to be more abstract than the AP C mechanics questions. I know teachers who prefer to teach AP Physics C because they find it a more straightforward class to teach. Also, students need calculus so you are self selecting a strong group of students while AP physics 1 often has a broader range of students. For students going into Engineering, I recommend they take both AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C (Mechanics + E&M) if possible as the two together give you a solid understanding of the first year or two of college physics

[Anonymous]

DS (recent grad) is a strong student in math and science. He took AP physics 1 and found it challenging. He said AP physics C was a double period and didn’t work as well for his schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS (recent grad) is a strong student in math and science. He took AP physics 1 and found it challenging. He said AP physics C was a double period and didn’t work as well for his schedule.

This. My kid took both AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C. He said the level of rigor was not much different. Physics in some ways is easier to understand with Calculus.