Which option would be better for a transfer student?

[Anonymous]

Hi, my sister, who is a first-gen and low-income student from community college, is making an extremely tough decision between two phenomenal schools. Here are the considerations.

Class standing: This is the biggest difference between the two schools. Ordinarily, it's advised to go to the school that accepts more of your credits and graduates you faster. The hesitance is that as a low-income student who will transfer into two schools notorious for their rigor, we're a little concerned about the fast transition to junior standing. It would mean less time to get to know her peers (an important aspect of a LAC community) and less time to benefit from the outstanding opportunities available at both schools which are a big step up from those available at community college.

Graduation plan: She would like to do a career in international relations, diplomacy, and policy analysis in refugee rights and migration, coupled with a degree in economics and a strong quantitative background. Currently, she has almost no ECs related to this field.

Swarthmore College:
* The bill to attend is $0. The school is actually giving her some money back to pay for books and expenses. The work study expectation is only $350 for the whole year.
* She will have junior standing and will only be eligible for 4 semesters of aid. She cannot study abroad during the semester due to a 2 year residential requirement.
* All her distributional requirements are completely filled, leaving her the full four semesters to dive into her major and related courses.
* For her prospective major, economics, Swarthmore is ranked #14 on IDEAS Econ Department Rankings. The department professor rating is a 3.75/5 for economics professors. While she can cross-register at UPenn, it seems almost no one does because there isn't a system wide shuttle to the school.
* However, Swarthmore is usually the #1 or #2 feeder into economics PhD programs in the country on a size adjusted basis, which is a testament to their strong academic preparation. Wellesley is in the 10-20 range.
* Swarthmore seems slightly more prestigious than Wellesley. Her friends at top schools and her professors have been more wowed by her mentioning Swarthmore. Swarthmore was the highest ranking LAC on foreign policy's list of recommended undergraduate institutions for IR which is purely based on peer assessment from experienced professionals. But this might be insignificant since Wellesley is very well regarded too by employers and graduate schools.
* She likes the emphasis on the common good among Swarthmore students, which complements with her passion in peace and conflict studies. She wonders if Wellesley students might be too preprofessional by comparison. She likes the love of learning aspect at Swarthmore as someone with multidisciplinary passions.

Wellesley College:
* The bill to attend is $2500. The work study expectation is $2100, and it will go up to $2300 in later years.
* She will enter as a sophomore and can be eligible to study abroad (fully funded by the school). Opportunities in economics include Oxford, Cambridge, and the LSE.
* Wellesley is ranked #2 on IDEAS Econ Department Rankings, and the department professor rating is a 4.25/5. In addition, most Wellesley students pursue Economics coursework or research opportunities at MIT, thanks to a daily bus system to both schools.
* Wellesley has the Albright Institute, which allows fellows to gain global affairs and practicum experiences over time with distinguished visiting professors and diplomats.
* Wellesley has an incredible alumni network of women who deeply care about helping Wellesley students and graduates out.
* Wellesley's career services seem to be more in-depth about advising and mentoring students. She will be around peers who are openly determined and passionate to pursue their career interests, which could motivate her to strive for her best as well.
* Wellesley is close to a better city for undergraduates (Boston/Cambridge). There are many thinktanks in the area with what she wants to study.

[Anonymous]

Both are good schools. I'd pick Swarthmore as credits are transferring, cheaper and she seems to like the vibe better. Does she want to go abroad or are you pushing it? That really makes no sense at this point, especially with Covid.

[Anonymous]

She wants to go. Being at Wellesley would allow her to master French, where she's at the intermediate level, whereas she may too pressed for time at Swarthmore. She may be interested in Wellesley's numerous French speaking study abroad opportunities as a result.

Wellesley also has a winter session term that has funded international experiences, though not for 2020/2021. But it does expand her horizons a bit too even if it is domestic opportunities and classes. Swarthmore only did a Jan term in 2021 and not for 2022, so it's probably not in the works.

One of her dreams is the Pickering or Rangel Fellowship, and most recipients seem to have substantial study abroad experiences. But she could also get that through summer opportunities like the Boren Critical Language Scholarship, Fulbright, or embassy internships (both Wellesley and Swarthmore do internship funding)

[Anonymous]

Congratulations to your sister!!! Regardless of which one she chooses, these are incredible opportunities, and it's fantastic that her hard work has given her this path forward. This thread is a breath of fresh air in a forum where folks are often here to whine and throw pity parties.

[Anonymous]

My dc transferred with a lot of credits. So not an issue. Where dc struggled was clubs/internships/special programs. Most kids get in the cue freshman year for them. Ie. You may never be the leader of a club/organization cause u haven’t been there long enough. Most freshman start stalking the best internships early and how to align with them to get one junior year. Some special programs require that schools gpa, for which they will not have one to be eligible to participate till after your first year and by then you are a senior.

[Anonymous]

I’d go to Wellesley as a sophomore

[Anonymous]

Wellesley, hands down. It will be a more supportive, nurturing environment. The extra time will be invaluable to her. The alum network is fantastic and will also be invaluable. Plus the chance to study abroad?

This is an easy choice IMO. The biggest reason first gen kids fail is lack of social support, not lack of ability.

There is no meaningful difference in ranking for these 2 excellent schools. Remove it from your list of considerations and focus on the soft stuff. It's that stuff that will make a difference for her.

Wellesley!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wellesley, hands down. It will be a more supportive, nurturing environment. The extra time will be invaluable to her. The alum network is fantastic and will also be invaluable. Plus the chance to study abroad?

This is an easy choice IMO. The biggest reason first gen kids fail is lack of social support, not lack of ability.

There is no meaningful difference in ranking for these 2 excellent schools. Remove it from your list of considerations and focus on the soft stuff. It's that stuff that will make a difference for her.

Wellesley!

+1

[Anonymous]

Funny for OP to focus on Swat' "prestige" for a kid coming out of a CC. It shows even with a Swat degree, the student is just a CC transfer. OP's description of Swat also shows this is how Swat sees her. It sounds as if it can't wait for the student to leave after 2 years when it can disable all her access swipe keys.

Focus on what works for the student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny for OP to focus on Swat' "prestige" for a kid coming out of a CC. It shows even with a Swat degree, the student is just a CC transfer. OP's description of Swat also shows this is how Swat sees her. It sounds as if it can't wait for the student to leave after 2 years when it can disable all her access swipe keys.

Focus on what works for the student.

This doesn't even make sense. Why would Swarthmore invest more than 160K of aid in a student if they didn't believe in their ability to do well there?

Last year, Swarthmore admitted 7 students, or 1.6%, of their transfer applicants.

Having credits fail to transfer over is generally a point of frustration for CC students, who find their work doesn't get acknowledged. An entering junior with no distributional requirements (9 courses, language, PE) means Swarthmore recognized her work in CC.

[Anonymous]

I'm normally a Swarthmore booster and I have to say the immediate previous poster is dead wrong. A free two years at Swarthmore is not to be sneezed at. Nobody will know or care after graduation where she started out, and if they do they will only be the more impressed. And one thing I love about Swat is that extracurriculars are wide open to anybody who wants to join. You're not competing with a deep field of people who have to pay their dues in organizations.

But as a college professor I would say it's worth taking the extra year if the extra cost at Wellesley is doable. The on-ramp to upper-level work at any of the very selective SLACs is steep. If Swat has judged she can do it, she can do it. But the extra year to settle in, make friends, both refine AND expand her interests, will be really good. The language and study abroad motivations seem strong. The difference in prestige, if any, matters a lot more to anxious applicants than to anyone on the post-graduation end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm normally a Swarthmore booster and I have to say the immediate previous poster is dead wrong. A free two years at Swarthmore is not to be sneezed at. Nobody will know or care after graduation where she started out, and if they do they will only be the more impressed. And one thing I love about Swat is that extracurriculars are wide open to anybody who wants to join. You're not competing with a deep field of people who have to pay their dues in organizations.

But as a college professor I would say it's worth taking the extra year if the extra cost at Wellesley is doable. The on-ramp to upper-level work at any of the very selective SLACs is steep. If Swat has judged she can do it, she can do it. But the extra year to settle in, make friends, both refine AND expand her interests, will be really good. The language and study abroad motivations seem strong. The difference in prestige, if any, matters a lot more to anxious applicants than to anyone on the post-graduation end.

Me again. To clarify, by "immediate PP" I mean the "the student is just a CC transfer" PP is dead wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm normally a Swarthmore booster and I have to say the immediate previous poster is dead wrong. A free two years at Swarthmore is not to be sneezed at. Nobody will know or care after graduation where she started out, and if they do they will only be the more impressed. And one thing I love about Swat is that extracurriculars are wide open to anybody who wants to join. You're not competing with a deep field of people who have to pay their dues in organizations.

But as a college professor I would say it's worth taking the extra year if the extra cost at Wellesley is doable. The on-ramp to upper-level work at any of the very selective SLACs is steep. If Swat has judged she can do it, she can do it. But the extra year to settle in, make friends, both refine AND expand her interests, will be really good. The language and study abroad motivations seem strong. The difference in prestige, if any, matters a lot more to anxious applicants than to anyone on the post-graduation end.

Me again. To clarify, by "immediate PP" I mean the "the student is just a CC transfer" PP is dead wrong.

I was only pointing out the irony of a CC grad to focus on such thing as prestige in downgrading Wellsley. You would think a CC grad doesn't have many schools to look down on.

[Anonymous]

How did you get that impression? Op said the difference is probably insignificant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm normally a Swarthmore booster and I have to say the immediate previous poster is dead wrong. A free two years at Swarthmore is not to be sneezed at. Nobody will know or care after graduation where she started out, and if they do they will only be the more impressed. And one thing I love about Swat is that extracurriculars are wide open to anybody who wants to join. You're not competing with a deep field of people who have to pay their dues in organizations.

But as a college professor I would say it's worth taking the extra year if the extra cost at Wellesley is doable. The on-ramp to upper-level work at any of the very selective SLACs is steep. If Swat has judged she can do it, she can do it. But the extra year to settle in, make friends, both refine AND expand her interests, will be really good. The language and study abroad motivations seem strong. The difference in prestige, if any, matters a lot more to anxious applicants than to anyone on the post-graduation end.

Me again. To clarify, by "immediate PP" I mean the "the student is just a CC transfer" PP is dead wrong.

I was only pointing out the irony of a CC grad to focus on such thing as prestige in downgrading Wellsley. You would think a CC grad doesn't have many schools to look down on.

What in the world? There is no irony here, just a young woman trying to make the best decision possible. She's doing exactly what any kid should do, carefully examining potential pros and cons. She's not looking down on anything.