ACLU post deleted

[Anonymous]

Why was the post about the ACLU in the politics thread deleted

[Anonymous]

I love how these bad faith questions innocently only reference a subject of the post, and not what the posts are actually about.

[jsteele]

The OP of that thread misrepresented the ACLU's position. The only support for the OP's point was a link to a long legal response that was essentially incomprehensible without the underlying document to which the OP did not link. Few DCUM posters would dig through long legal documents in order to understand the OP's misrepresentation.

The entire issue is that the ACLU distinguishes between biological sex and gender identity and supports transgender women being sent to women's prisons. The OP found this confusing.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:The OP of that thread misrepresented the ACLU's position. The only support for the OP's point was a link to a long legal response that was essentially incomprehensible without the underlying document to which the OP did not link. Few DCUM posters would dig through long legal documents in order to understand the OP's misrepresentation.

The entire issue is that the ACLU distinguishes between biological sex and gender identity and supports transgender women being sent to women's prisons. The OP found this confusing.

I am the OP and understand the difference between sex and gender. The passage in question is referring to biological sex, not gender identity.

"deny the allegation that “human beings” are sexually dimorphic, divided into males and females each with reproductive systems, hormones, and chromosomes that result in significant differences between men[] and women[.]”

So, I am happy to provide additional context and post the relevant section of the legal document if that is the reason for deletion. Is it permissible to post topics which quote public legal briefs?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The OP of that thread misrepresented the ACLU's position. The only support for the OP's point was a link to a long legal response that was essentially incomprehensible without the underlying document to which the OP did not link. Few DCUM posters would dig through long legal documents in order to understand the OP's misrepresentation.

The entire issue is that the ACLU distinguishes between biological sex and gender identity and supports transgender women being sent to women's prisons. The OP found this confusing.

I am the OP and understand the difference between sex and gender. The passage in question is referring to biological sex, not gender identity.

"deny the allegation that “human beings” are sexually dimorphic, divided into males and females each with reproductive systems, hormones, and chromosomes that result in significant differences between men[] and women[.]”

So, I am happy to provide additional context and post the relevant section of the legal document if that is the reason for deletion. Is it permissible to post topics which quote public legal briefs?

Read through this document:

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/brief_of_interact_advocates_for_itnersex_youth.pdf

Note, this document was not written by the ACLU, it is simply part of their collection of court documents. But, I believe it explains their position:

"Each year thousands of intersex infants are born with variations in their sex characteristics, who could not be easily classified as “male” or “female”...
...

"Intersex is an umbrella term describing a wide range of natural bodily variations—in external genitals, internal sex organs, chromosomes, and hormones—that do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies. These variations in physical characteristics have been known for millennia and their existence is universally acknowledged by the scientific and medical communities."

[Anonymous]

Sexual dimorphism and sexual reproduction have been generally accepted biological principles for millennia and are universally acknowledged by the scientific and medical communities. In fact, that the question in my OP to seek scientific responses which disprove sexual dimorphism which is claimed in the legal brief - a denial that males and females each with reproductive systems, hormones, and chromosomes that result in significant differences between men[] and women.

So, is it permissible to post topics on publicly available legal briefs, or not?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The OP of that thread misrepresented the ACLU's position. The only support for the OP's point was a link to a long legal response that was essentially incomprehensible without the underlying document to which the OP did not link. Few DCUM posters would dig through long legal documents in order to understand the OP's misrepresentation.

The entire issue is that the ACLU distinguishes between biological sex and gender identity and supports transgender women being sent to women's prisons. The OP found this confusing.

I am the OP and understand the difference between sex and gender. The passage in question is referring to biological sex, not gender identity.

"deny the allegation that “human beings” are sexually dimorphic, divided into males and females each with reproductive systems, hormones, and chromosomes that result in significant differences between men[] and women[.]”

So, I am happy to provide additional context and post the relevant section of the legal document if that is the reason for deletion. Is it permissible to post topics which quote public legal briefs?

Read through this document:

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/brief_of_interact_advocates_for_itnersex_youth.pdf

Note, this document was not written by the ACLU, it is simply part of their collection of court documents. But, I believe it explains their position:

"Each year thousands of intersex infants are born with variations in their sex characteristics, who could not be easily classified as “male” or “female”...
...

"Intersex is an umbrella term describing a wide range of natural bodily variations—in external genitals, internal sex organs, chromosomes, and hormones—that do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies. These variations in physical characteristics have been known for millennia and their existence is universally acknowledged by the scientific and medical communities."

I'm not sure I follow. Are you making the claim that the because there are individuals who are born intersex, that human beings are not sexually dimorphic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sexual dimorphism and sexual reproduction have been generally accepted biological principles for millennia and are universally acknowledged by the scientific and medical communities. In fact, that the question in my OP to seek scientific responses which disprove sexual dimorphism which is claimed in the legal brief - a denial that males and females each with reproductive systems, hormones, and chromosomes that result in significant differences between men[] and women.

So, is it permissible to post topics on publicly available legal briefs, or not?

If you're looking for scientific responses, the politics forum is not the place to go.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The OP of that thread misrepresented the ACLU's position. The only support for the OP's point was a link to a long legal response that was essentially incomprehensible without the underlying document to which the OP did not link. Few DCUM posters would dig through long legal documents in order to understand the OP's misrepresentation.

The entire issue is that the ACLU distinguishes between biological sex and gender identity and supports transgender women being sent to women's prisons. The OP found this confusing.

I am the OP and understand the difference between sex and gender. The passage in question is referring to biological sex, not gender identity.

"deny the allegation that “human beings” are sexually dimorphic, divided into males and females each with reproductive systems, hormones, and chromosomes that result in significant differences between men[] and women[.]”

So, I am happy to provide additional context and post the relevant section of the legal document if that is the reason for deletion. Is it permissible to post topics which quote public legal briefs?

Read through this document:

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/brief_of_interact_advocates_for_itnersex_youth.pdf

Note, this document was not written by the ACLU, it is simply part of their collection of court documents. But, I believe it explains their position:

"Each year thousands of intersex infants are born with variations in their sex characteristics, who could not be easily classified as “male” or “female”...
...

"Intersex is an umbrella term describing a wide range of natural bodily variations—in external genitals, internal sex organs, chromosomes, and hormones—that do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies. These variations in physical characteristics have been known for millennia and their existence is universally acknowledged by the scientific and medical communities."

I'm not sure I follow. Are you making the claim that the because there are individuals who are born intersex, that human beings are not sexually dimorphic?

It is not my claim but the claim made by the authors of the legal brief. However, I believe that your question is self-answering. Individuals who are born intersex disprove the notion that human beings are universally sexually dimorphic.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Sexual dimorphism and sexual reproduction have been generally accepted biological principles for millennia and are universally acknowledged by the scientific and medical communities. In fact, that the question in my OP to seek scientific responses which disprove sexual dimorphism which is claimed in the legal brief - a denial that males and females each with reproductive systems, hormones, and chromosomes that result in significant differences between men[] and women.

So, is it permissible to post topics on publicly available legal briefs, or not?

No, we don't need another thread obsessed with trans people. We have enough of them already. I suggest that you read the document to which I linked which directly addresses your question -- with plenty of documented citations. Since you obviously skipped reading that document, I assume you are more interested in a debate than actual answers. I'm not up for that.