Serious question - are the kids who "love DL" all introverted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My introverted 1st grader is doing fine, but has trouble keeping his camera on because looking at himself is distracting and makes him self conscious.

I am neutral on DL. He’s probably learning less, but it’s not as awful as some parents make it out to be.

My $.02 - My husband and I have both worked to have a super optimistic, positive attitude about DL. We talk about “making it work” and “doing our best”. We have never given our child any indication that he should be unhappy. We don’t talk about DL or potential hybrid in front of him. We are engaged with what is going on and we work with him to reinforce what he is doing during DL. This is not taking a heroic effort - it takes me 30-40 min a day. All of the loudmouth “open schools now” parents seem to also have kids who are melting down and acting out. It’s a bit of a chicken and and egg thing to me.
Do the kids have a bad attitude / sense of entitlement/ learned helplessness because their parents were so negative about DL from day 1? Or are the parents at their wit’s end because of the kids?

My 1st grader is too young to know that he's supposed to express dislike for DL. But when we told him that he could go back to school last November, he was so thrilled. And when they canceled, he was devastated and cried.

My 5th grader is straight up depressed. We just weren't able to pollyanna him out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in high school I was not attractive (acne, over weight) and had trouble making friends. Lunch was the most stressful. I had no regular group to sit with. Sometimes I would sit in the library to do homework during lunch while secretly eating my sandwich. Would I have enjoyed DL? Absolutely. Would it have been the best thing for me? NO. Kids need to learn how to navigate the world and sometimes difficult social situations. We are really depriving them of a lot of soft skills this year. You can’t spend your entire life hiding behind a computer. There are distractions and hardships in real life. We need to help teach our kids to face them.

I disagree. Suffering and hardships are not necessary to learn what life is about. Many years later and you are still not over the feelings of being lonely and excluded.

What kind of soft skills did you learn by eating alone at the library?

Now imagine being in DL but having a local place to go that had smaller interest-based groups of teens. Sports, crafts, music, volunteering, work, etc. You'd be able to switch clubs whenever you wanted, you'd have less structure imposed on you, and less social demands. For all the kids who were bullied and ostracized, DL is a great thing.

That said, pandemic is terrible and I can't wait to get out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was in high school I was not attractive (acne, over weight) and had trouble making friends. Lunch was the most stressful. I had no regular group to sit with. Sometimes I would sit in the library to do homework during lunch while secretly eating my sandwich. Would I have enjoyed DL? Absolutely. Would it have been the best thing for me? NO. Kids need to learn how to navigate the world and sometimes difficult social situations. We are really depriving them of a lot of soft skills this year. You can’t spend your entire life hiding behind a computer. There are distractions and hardships in real life. We need to help teach our kids to face them.

I disagree. Suffering and hardships are not necessary to learn what life is about. Many years later and you are still not over the feelings of being lonely and excluded.

What kind of soft skills did you learn by eating alone at the library?

Now imagine being in DL but having a local place to go that had smaller interest-based groups of teens. Sports, crafts, music, volunteering, work, etc. You'd be able to switch clubs whenever you wanted, you'd have less structure imposed on you, and less social demands. For all the kids who were bullied and ostracized, DL is a great thing.

That said, pandemic is terrible and I can't wait to get out of it.

I don't know if it is possible, but I like seeing specific reasons why some DL works for some children (other than those who like it because the bad kids don't get in the way). Some kids are depressed and bullied, some kids are noise sensitive, some might be getting intensive medical treatment. Whether it is in the form of online homeschooling or something public school districts can offer, there is a population of children who have significant family support and flexibility for whom DL would work well after the pandemic. As you mention, the key is making an informed choice and filling in other time with appropriate activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are all extroverts. They also are high performers academically.

I think the reason why they love DL so much is that all of the class fools are completely mitigated online. It has been such a relief to them, from my high schooler to my middle schoolers to my elementary schooler, that the fools are knocked out of the game. The teachers are teaching and my kids are knocking it out of the park. Instruction is "bell-to-bell" so to speak.

Plus my kids have a lot more time for sports and relaxing. I think it helps that they have a wide circle of friends who are all pretty technologically adept.

Do high school classes for high performers really have large populations of class fools in need of muting?

No. I’m a high school teacher and most don’t turn on cameras or participate. This is true for all of the levels I teach. I have 1-4 cameras on each class and almost no one ever uses voice. I’m amazed when I walk my my elementary DD’s class and see a screen full of faces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are all extroverts. They also are high performers academically.

I think the reason why they love DL so much is that all of the class fools are completely mitigated online. It has been such a relief to them, from my high schooler to my middle schoolers to my elementary schooler, that the fools are knocked out of the game. The teachers are teaching and my kids are knocking it out of the park. Instruction is "bell-to-bell" so to speak.

Plus my kids have a lot more time for sports and relaxing. I think it helps that they have a wide circle of friends who are all pretty technologically adept.

Do high school classes for high performers really have large populations of class fools in need of muting?

No. I’m a high school teacher and most don’t turn on cameras or participate. This is true for all of the levels I teach. I have 1-4 cameras on each class and almost no one ever uses voice. I’m amazed when I walk my my elementary DD’s class and see a screen full of faces.

I'm the person you are responding to. I was basically questioning the PP's statement that her high performing high school students are doing better because the class fools aren't showing up. I question whether there were really "class fools" in "high performing "classes in the first place so that their absence would make a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was in high school I was not attractive (acne, over weight) and had trouble making friends. Lunch was the most stressful. I had no regular group to sit with. Sometimes I would sit in the library to do homework during lunch while secretly eating my sandwich. Would I have enjoyed DL? Absolutely. Would it have been the best thing for me? NO. Kids need to learn how to navigate the world and sometimes difficult social situations. We are really depriving them of a lot of soft skills this year. You can’t spend your entire life hiding behind a computer. There are distractions and hardships in real life. We need to help teach our kids to face them.

I disagree. Suffering and hardships are not necessary to learn what life is about. Many years later and you are still not over the feelings of being lonely and excluded.

What kind of soft skills did you learn by eating alone at the library?

Now imagine being in DL but having a local place to go that had smaller interest-based groups of teens. Sports, crafts, music, volunteering, work, etc. You'd be able to switch clubs whenever you wanted, you'd have less structure imposed on you, and less social demands. For all the kids who were bullied and ostracized, DL is a great thing.

That said, pandemic is terrible and I can't wait to get out of it.

I think there is a difference between hardships and suffering. No one should exalt or fetishize suffering. We have plenty of evidence that suffering oppresses much more than it inspires. But some hardship? I actually agree that it's a large part of becoming the kind of person that is best to be around. When I think of the people who have experienced almost nothing difficult min their lives (which isn't many) and ehhhhh, these people are usually lacking in empathy a bit and/ just a little bit clueless about lives of others and themselves

[Anonymous]

You sound like the troll. No, mine is very social but understands we are in a pandemic and the seriousness of it. So, instead of complaint, we've all made the best of a bad situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are all extroverts. They also are high performers academically.

I think the reason why they love DL so much is that all of the class fools are completely mitigated online. It has been such a relief to them, from my high schooler to my middle schoolers to my elementary schooler, that the fools are knocked out of the game. The teachers are teaching and my kids are knocking it out of the park. Instruction is "bell-to-bell" so to speak.

Plus my kids have a lot more time for sports and relaxing. I think it helps that they have a wide circle of friends who are all pretty technologically adept.

Do high school classes for high performers really have large populations of class fools in need of muting?

No. I’m a high school teacher and most don’t turn on cameras or participate. This is true for all of the levels I teach. I have 1-4 cameras on each class and almost no one ever uses voice. I’m amazed when I walk my my elementary DD’s class and see a screen full of faces.

This goes back to parenting and parents aren't setting clear expectations in their home. I doubt a good 1/2 of those kids are even there. They should fail kids who don't participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope.

OP here. So they are extroverted? How much friend time do they get? Are they in a pod? Just trying to understand.

Np here - but I agree. My child is an extreme extrovert, but he also has ADHD. So in school he would find it difficult to pay attention with all his friends around and his grades reflected that. With DL, he isn't distracted (at all) - gets LOTS of positive reinforcement. from teachers, and he gets LOTS of friend time online after school through gaming and through a sport that he does 2-3x a week. No pods, no meet ups. But he gets to schedule his online time as he wants as long as he does well in school (which - well, he is doing phenomenally.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was in high school I was not attractive (acne, over weight) and had trouble making friends. Lunch was the most stressful. I had no regular group to sit with. Sometimes I would sit in the library to do homework during lunch while secretly eating my sandwich. Would I have enjoyed DL? Absolutely. Would it have been the best thing for me? NO. Kids need to learn how to navigate the world and sometimes difficult social situations. We are really depriving them of a lot of soft skills this year. You can’t spend your entire life hiding behind a computer. There are distractions and hardships in real life. We need to help teach our kids to face them.

I disagree. Suffering and hardships are not necessary to learn what life is about. Many years later and you are still not over the feelings of being lonely and excluded.

What kind of soft skills did you learn by eating alone at the library?

Now imagine being in DL but having a local place to go that had smaller interest-based groups of teens. Sports, crafts, music, volunteering, work, etc. You'd be able to switch clubs whenever you wanted, you'd have less structure imposed on you, and less social demands. For all the kids who were bullied and ostracized, DL is a great thing.

That said, pandemic is terrible and I can't wait to get out of it.

I think there is a difference between hardships and suffering. No one should exalt or fetishize suffering. We have plenty of evidence that suffering oppresses much more than it inspires. But some hardship? I actually agree that it's a large part of becoming the kind of person that is best to be around. When I think of the people who have experienced almost nothing difficult min their lives (which isn't many) and ehhhhh, these people are usually lacking in empathy a bit and/ just a little bit clueless about lives of others and themselves

There are different types of hardships. Which ones are you talking about?

Loneliness, ostracism, and bullying are not known to promote empathy and “becoming the kind of person that is best to be around”. Rather, they contribute to long-term depression, anxiety, and other negative health outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My introverted 1st grader is doing fine, but has trouble keeping his camera on because looking at himself is distracting and makes him self conscious.

I am neutral on DL. He’s probably learning less, but it’s not as awful as some parents make it out to be.

My $.02 - My husband and I have both worked to have a super optimistic, positive attitude about DL. We talk about “making it work” and “doing our best”. We have never given our child any indication that he should be unhappy. We don’t talk about DL or potential hybrid in front of him. We are engaged with what is going on and we work with him to reinforce what he is doing during DL. This is not taking a heroic effort - it takes me 30-40 min a day. All of the loudmouth “open schools now” parents seem to also have kids who are melting down and acting out. It’s a bit of a chicken and and egg thing to me.
Do the kids have a bad attitude / sense of entitlement/ learned helplessness because their parents were so negative about DL from day 1? Or are the parents at their wit’s end because of the kids?

If you only have one child, and he's in first grade, then you have it easier than 99.9% of parents. Your child is in the sweet spot where he doesn't need much supervision, he doesn't NEED to learn anything since the requirements are so low at this age, and if you're a decent parent then he would have learned almost all of the academic work before he started first grade anyway just from having engaged parents. Most parents have either younger kids to deal with as well, or they have older kids who actually need to learn something and can't be okay with "learning less" for a couple of years while having no social or sports interaction either. Have a bit of empathy for everyone else.

My goodness, this is quite a statement. A bit rich talking about empathy, PP.

You actually just make the point even stronger. If the parents can't teach the child most of the stuff themselves in the several years prior to starting school then there's obviously something they need from the school/teacher, and so staying at home for the year is going to hurt those folks too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bullies and disruptive kids are posting in the chat on the online school platforms (e.g. MS Teams). I encourage parents to take a look. VERY eye opening!

YES! My DD is in class with a kid she said was a menace in an earlier class they had together, but never could give specific details so I didn't take it seriously. But this year I can see that he openly is a jerk to everyone in the class in the chat. He is constantly trying to start up a side conversation, pull people to breakout rooms, remove people from meetings, join the wrong breakout groups on purpose (join all breakout rooms for a minute while people are trying to work).

It has been eye opening.

What grade are your kids in? I am sure there is a lot of that going on, but the chat in my third-graders class is just hilarious. The kids are so clever and so cute. Sometimes obnoxious, yeah. But. Everybody should read their kid’s chats for the entertainment value at a minimum.

4th!

I'm the other PP and also 4th. From what I can see, the other kids seem fine on the chat, but it's just this one kid that my DD complains about almost every day. Yesterday he popped into her after school small reading group. I don't understand why the teacher hasn't been able to do more to control him - she's obviously annoyed by him.

DP here. Say something, document it. We had one student who always asked my DC, every day, several times per day - about almost each and every assignment. He could not follow directions and needed help, and the teacher thought that my DC would be a good .....IDK....second teacher?? The boy needed an aide or something, but they refused because the mom didn't want to admit he had a problem - which did him a HUGE disservice, because now no one wants to help him. It was disruptive of him to expect one student to miss their assignment time to try to walk him through the steps, and he was taking classes that were not his level. You need to document everything to the school if a student is being disruptive, OP. Otherwise, the school, with the parents lead, will let anything slide that they can.

How compassionate.

You can not be serious. You expect one student, a child, who is trying to learn and take part in the very same class, and has no training, to be a personal aide? For an entire school year - and maybe more, because the teachers allow it? For real? What else should they allow? In what world is this okay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it matters so much about introvert / extrovert, but how bullied and chaotic the kid finds their grade or school.

+1

If the teacher isn't teaching, or doing what they are supposed to be doing, there is a bigger problem.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks to everyone who answered honestly and stayed mostly on topic!

It did help me to understand! I wish everyone the best finishing out this crazy year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not one of these "open school" yellers and I don't think teachers are bad or lazy. We are doing the best we can and so are they.

That being said, my kids are pretty unhappy and really do want to go back to school. Both are extremely extroverted and both loved school prior to Covid and got good grades (and still are.) Yes they see friends and do extracurriculars but that is not nearly enough for them. When I hear so many people (on here and IRL) say their kids "love DL" it is incomprehensible to me, in the literal sense of the word. Are these kids just very introverted and don't require much interaction with others to be content? Did they dislike school before Covid?

Hoping for a few sincere answers before the trolls take over.

No. Mine's an extrovert wtih ADHD and focusing is way easier at home.