How would you like school and classes to run in Fall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our union leadership has already stated that we are not childcare and there is no possibility of all students attending school at the same time. The buildings are too crowded and we will not go back to work packed in like sardines against all common sense and medical advice.

Parents should think about how they will manage this-nanny share, one parent stays home and you downsize, etc. This will likely be our new reality until a vaccine is developed.

Where are you located?

NP. Progressive Democrats like myself are now rethinking support for teacher unions. Unfortunately, the reality is, a major impediment to a high quality and nimble education system are unions. I come from a union family, so it’s significant for me to acknowledge this.

Disagree. Administrators are the ones who suck. Teachers are merely pawns. Granted, the talent level in the profession has dropped, but that is due to external factors not unions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't really understand the point of this thread. Parents don't get to choose how schools and classes run in normal situations, why would they now? Other than the 1-2 miniscule items that the PTA directs, truly, parents don't influence how schools run. At least not public schools.

Actually, our tax dollars fund the schools and we elect the school board. So parents do have a voice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our union leadership has already stated that we are not childcare and there is no possibility of all students attending school at the same time. The buildings are too crowded and we will not go back to work packed in like sardines against all common sense and medical advice.

Parents should think about how they will manage this-nanny share, one parent stays home and you downsize, etc. This will likely be our new reality until a vaccine is developed.

Where are you located?

NP. Progressive Democrats like myself are now rethinking support for teacher unions. Unfortunately, the reality is, a major impediment to a high quality and nimble education system are unions. I come from a union family, so it’s significant for me to acknowledge this.

“Nimble” seems to mean “put your life on the line for me, because otherwise I have to make sacrifices I don’t feel like making” and “work more without pay”

The vast majority of the population will be back to work by September, interacting with people as they need to for their job this "putting their life on the line."
Do you think teachers are an exception and they should get to stay home indefinitely, not work, and get paid full salary by tax payers? Distance learning is sub par in most cases and many parents aren't even participating because it just isn't a full education.

As a parent it’s your decision to opt out of learning. It has nothing to do with public policy, though. If you’d prefer to put together your own homeschool curriculum or purchase one then you are welcome to do so.
I do think schools are fundamentally different than offices though. For one, in terms of the number of people gathered together in a school. For another, the lack of hygiene practices among the people it serves. The lack of independence of elementary school students is another factor. If you’re wiping your coworkers noses and holding their hands, then god bless you. Do your coworkers routinely share toys, balls, school supplies, play doh, art supplies, etc? Do your coworkers travel together to work on a crowded school bus? Do you have the ability to wash your hands and distance yourself from other people in your office? Do your coworkers regularly come to work sick and coughing all over you? Because schools are not the same. You can insist that they are but the reality is that they are breeding grounds for germs of all kinds. Every child in my class got the flu last year except TWO. I got it too! Because elementary schools are hands on, germy environments and to do my job effectively I have to work closely with the kids. I hate distance learning. It’s utterly joyless. But I’m not going to shut my mouth and be a good soldier so that you can go back to your own life. If the numbers increase then schools will need to be shut again and teachers will absolutely put pressure on schools, districts, and local governments to do so.

Ok if you don't want to go back to work then you shouldn't get paid.

We never left work. We’re working full time even now. Schools are huge, dense gathering places. This is a pandemic. People are dying. I know you want to get back to your regular life but you aren’t living in reality. If there are outbreaks in schools/cities/counties then schools will shut down all over again, regardless of how much you oppose it. You are naive to think otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really understand the point of this thread. Parents don't get to choose how schools and classes run in normal situations, why would they now? Other than the 1-2 miniscule items that the PTA directs, truly, parents don't influence how schools run. At least not public schools.

Actually, our tax dollars fund the schools and we elect the school board. So parents do have a voice.

A "voice" is different than actual influence or power. School boards are there to ensure financial mismanagement doesn't occur (though I've seen it in all 5 of the districts I've worked for) and to give parents the illusion of control. I'm not trying to mess with you, I'm just being real. I have ZERO power over what happens in my kids' school. ZERO. But I actually have a lot of influence over what happens in the school I work in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our union leadership has already stated that we are not childcare and there is no possibility of all students attending school at the same time. The buildings are too crowded and we will not go back to work packed in like sardines against all common sense and medical advice.

Parents should think about how they will manage this-nanny share, one parent stays home and you downsize, etc. This will likely be our new reality until a vaccine is developed.

What should we do if it takes 3 years or more to find a vaccine? Just accept that kids of our nation will not have an adequate education?

No one is saying we don’t go back until there’s a vaccine. They’re saying we don’t go back and throw caution to the wind, full capacity and no protections. It’s not “if” that will cause a massive uptick in infections, but how many. The union is demanding masks, testing for all staff and students, temperature checks and a strict sick child policy. If they can’t make those things happen, then going back to the buildings is off the table.

The unions shouldn't have to be demanding widespread testing and masks before big buildings fill up with kids and adults again. The Federal Government should be providing those, and they've (we've) had months to get it together. I'm so sorry that it falls on unions to make such demands. It's nuts. Widespread testing, contact tracing, mass distribution of masks are necessary if cities are to reopen before a vaccine is available.

We have orders of magnitude more positive cases in DC than we had when we shut the city down 2+ months ago. Case numbers will absolutely skyrocket when we open even a fraction of the city back up. It's unthinkable to do that without the basics - testing for all, tracing, masks for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our union leadership has already stated that we are not childcare and there is no possibility of all students attending school at the same time. The buildings are too crowded and we will not go back to work packed in like sardines against all common sense and medical advice.

Parents should think about how they will manage this-nanny share, one parent stays home and you downsize, etc. This will likely be our new reality until a vaccine is developed.

What should we do if it takes 3 years or more to find a vaccine? Just accept that kids of our nation will not have an adequate education?

No one is saying we don’t go back until there’s a vaccine. They’re saying we don’t go back and throw caution to the wind, full capacity and no protections. It’s not “if” that will cause a massive uptick in infections, but how many. The union is demanding masks, testing for all staff and students, temperature checks and a strict sick child policy. If they can’t make those things happen, then going back to the buildings is off the table.

The unions shouldn't have to be demanding widespread testing and masks before big buildings fill up with kids and adults again. The Federal Government should be providing those, and they've (we've) had months to get it together. I'm so sorry that it falls on unions to make such demands. It's nuts. Widespread testing, contact tracing, mass distribution of masks are necessary if cities are to reopen before a vaccine is available.

We have orders of magnitude more positive cases in DC than we had when we shut the city down 2+ months ago. Case numbers will absolutely skyrocket when we open even a fraction of the city back up. It's unthinkable to do that without the basics - testing for all, tracing, masks for all.

I agree. It’s ridiculous that it fails to labor unions to demand these basic protections. Even more ridiculous? Parents here saying that teachers who expect these measures should lose their jobs. So depressing.

[Anonymous]

Kindergarten parent. Continue academics online. Invite small groups to PLAY at school, with the teacher(s). Focus on social emotional learning in person.

If it’s the other way around - school is just academics with no recess/SEL and no lunch room and no specials - I honestly don’t see the point in sending my kid. It would be more traumatic to send him than to just keep him home in his happy bubble with his siblings.

[Anonymous]

Parent of first ad third graders here. I'm also an essential worker who can WFH during the pandemic. I DH is a public school teacher who usually has a total of 350 students a week. We are in NYC.

Distance learning is working for our kids academically but not socially. Also, I'm not sure how well it would work next year when lots of new information is introduced. We supplement with lots of extras at home, some online. Next year, budgetwise, the public schools will likely have to cut enrichment due to budget cuts, so we will be supplementing that on the weekends.

I can see a lot of families moving or.homeschooling if they are forced to send their kids back to the school buildings. What might keep them for editing the system and the city is the continuing of distance learning as an option. That would naturally reduce the number of kids in the classroom. Teachers would somehow need to find a way to reach online as they have and in person.

Also, I am hoping that soon we can prove that antibodies provide some level of immunity, and that the serology tests improve enough to be useful. That way teachers and school staff could be tested and those with antibodies could work in the schools with less fear. By the fall the city should be at 50% with exposure, either recovered from their illness or having been asymptomatic while infected (current estimates for NYC are 21%. That would get us almost to herd immunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of first ad third graders here. I'm also an essential worker who can WFH during the pandemic. I DH is a public school teacher who usually has a total of 350 students a week. We are in NYC.

Distance learning is working for our kids academically but not socially. Also, I'm not sure how well it would work next year when lots of new information is introduced. We supplement with lots of extras at home, some online. Next year, budgetwise, the public schools will likely have to cut enrichment due to budget cuts, so we will be supplementing that on the weekends.

I can see a lot of families moving or.homeschooling if they are forced to send their kids back to the school buildings. What might keep them for editing the system and the city is the continuing of distance learning as an option. That would naturally reduce the number of kids in the classroom. Teachers would somehow need to find a way to reach online as they have and in person.

Also, I am hoping that soon we can prove that antibodies provide some level of immunity, and that the serology tests improve enough to be useful. That way teachers and school staff could be tested and those with antibodies could work in the schools with less fear. By the fall the city should be at 50% with exposure, either recovered from their illness or having been asymptomatic while infected (current estimates for NYC are 21%. That would get us almost to herd immunity.

We have no evidence that there is immunity after infection. Until we know that you can’t recover and get infected again, this theory doesn’t work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our union leadership has already stated that we are not childcare and there is no possibility of all students attending school at the same time. The buildings are too crowded and we will not go back to work packed in like sardines against all common sense and medical advice.

Parents should think about how they will manage this-nanny share, one parent stays home and you downsize, etc. This will likely be our new reality until a vaccine is developed.

What should we do if it takes 3 years or more to find a vaccine? Just accept that kids of our nation will not have an adequate education?

No one is saying we don’t go back until there’s a vaccine. They’re saying we don’t go back and throw caution to the wind, full capacity and no protections. It’s not “if” that will cause a massive uptick in infections, but how many. The union is demanding masks, testing for all staff and students, temperature checks and a strict sick child policy. If they can’t make those things happen, then going back to the buildings is off the table.

The unions shouldn't have to be demanding widespread testing and masks before big buildings fill up with kids and adults again. The Federal Government should be providing those, and they've (we've) had months to get it together. I'm so sorry that it falls on unions to make such demands. It's nuts. Widespread testing, contact tracing, mass distribution of masks are necessary if cities are to reopen before a vaccine is available.

We have orders of magnitude more positive cases in DC than we had when we shut the city down 2+ months ago. Case numbers will absolutely skyrocket when we open even a fraction of the city back up. It's unthinkable to do that without the basics - testing for all, tracing, masks for all.

I agree. It’s ridiculous that it fails to labor unions to demand these basic protections. Even more ridiculous? Parents here saying that teachers who expect these measures should lose their jobs. So depressing.

I criticized unions, but not over masks. That’s pretty basic.

I’m annoyed at Unions over distance learning. Some of the unions negotiated only 4 hours of work per day. Some unions negotiated no Zoom or living teaching is required. Unions represent teachers, but not our children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of first ad third graders here. I'm also an essential worker who can WFH during the pandemic. I DH is a public school teacher who usually has a total of 350 students a week. We are in NYC.

Distance learning is working for our kids academically but not socially. Also, I'm not sure how well it would work next year when lots of new information is introduced. We supplement with lots of extras at home, some online. Next year, budgetwise, the public schools will likely have to cut enrichment due to budget cuts, so we will be supplementing that on the weekends.

I can see a lot of families moving or.homeschooling if they are forced to send their kids back to the school buildings. What might keep them for editing the system and the city is the continuing of distance learning as an option. That would naturally reduce the number of kids in the classroom. Teachers would somehow need to find a way to reach online as they have and in person.

Also, I am hoping that soon we can prove that antibodies provide some level of immunity, and that the serology tests improve enough to be useful. That way teachers and school staff could be tested and those with antibodies could work in the schools with less fear. By the fall the city should be at 50% with exposure, either recovered from their illness or having been asymptomatic while infected (current estimates for NYC are 21%. That would get us almost to herd immunity.

We have no evidence that there is immunity after infection. Until we know that you can’t recover and get infected again, this theory doesn’t work.

Actually, recent studies have indicated that there is, in fact, immunity after infection. We just don't know how long that immunity lasts. I'll try and find the link, it was just within the last couple days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our union leadership has already stated that we are not childcare and there is no possibility of all students attending school at the same time. The buildings are too crowded and we will not go back to work packed in like sardines against all common sense and medical advice.

Parents should think about how they will manage this-nanny share, one parent stays home and you downsize, etc. This will likely be our new reality until a vaccine is developed.

What should we do if it takes 3 years or more to find a vaccine? Just accept that kids of our nation will not have an adequate education?

No one is saying we don’t go back until there’s a vaccine. They’re saying we don’t go back and throw caution to the wind, full capacity and no protections. It’s not “if” that will cause a massive uptick in infections, but how many. The union is demanding masks, testing for all staff and students, temperature checks and a strict sick child policy. If they can’t make those things happen, then going back to the buildings is off the table.

The unions shouldn't have to be demanding widespread testing and masks before big buildings fill up with kids and adults again. The Federal Government should be providing those, and they've (we've) had months to get it together. I'm so sorry that it falls on unions to make such demands. It's nuts. Widespread testing, contact tracing, mass distribution of masks are necessary if cities are to reopen before a vaccine is available.

We have orders of magnitude more positive cases in DC than we had when we shut the city down 2+ months ago. Case numbers will absolutely skyrocket when we open even a fraction of the city back up. It's unthinkable to do that without the basics - testing for all, tracing, masks for all.

I agree. It’s ridiculous that it fails to labor unions to demand these basic protections. Even more ridiculous? Parents here saying that teachers who expect these measures should lose their jobs. So depressing.

I criticized unions, but not over masks. That’s pretty basic.

I’m annoyed at Unions over distance learning. Some of the unions negotiated only 4 hours of work per day. Some unions negotiated no Zoom or living teaching is required. Unions represent teachers, but not our children.

You don’t understand the function of the union. Of course the union protects teachers. Every paycheck some of our money gets taken out for union dues. We are paying for collective bargaining power. They represent us.
The union doesn’t just protect us, though. They protect your children. When a school tries to put 40 kids in a class, the teacher calls the union and they step in. When the union tries to put a class in a mildewed windowless room in the basement, the union steps in. When schools suppress information about positive COVID cases among staff and students, the union steps in. When a teacher who is not certified to teach a subject is told that they must teach the class anyway, the union puts the kibosh on it. It is very naive to assume that if teachers lost their unions that your children wouldn’t suffer the effects. Administrators and educational policy makers are looking at the bottom line. They do not care about your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our union leadership has already stated that we are not childcare and there is no possibility of all students attending school at the same time. The buildings are too crowded and we will not go back to work packed in like sardines against all common sense and medical advice.

Parents should think about how they will manage this-nanny share, one parent stays home and you downsize, etc. This will likely be our new reality until a vaccine is developed.

Where are you located?

NP. Progressive Democrats like myself are now rethinking support for teacher unions. Unfortunately, the reality is, a major impediment to a high quality and nimble education system are unions. I come from a union family, so it’s significant for me to acknowledge this.

I’m a progressive Democrat and very politically active. I have no heard anyone say that who wasn’t quite right of center. Most Democrats need union votes and know pulling support for any field’s union raises quesrooms in the minds of other fields. Solidarity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our union leadership has already stated that we are not childcare and there is no possibility of all students attending school at the same time. The buildings are too crowded and we will not go back to work packed in like sardines against all common sense and medical advice.

Parents should think about how they will manage this-nanny share, one parent stays home and you downsize, etc. This will likely be our new reality until a vaccine is developed.

Where are you located?

NP. Progressive Democrats like myself are now rethinking support for teacher unions. Unfortunately, the reality is, a major impediment to a high quality and nimble education system are unions. I come from a union family, so it’s significant for me to acknowledge this.

“Nimble” seems to mean “put your life on the line for me, because otherwise I have to make sacrifices I don’t feel like making” and “work more without pay”

The vast majority of the population will be back to work by September, interacting with people as they need to for their job this "putting their life on the line."
Do you think teachers are an exception and they should get to stay home indefinitely, not work, and get paid full salary by tax payers? Distance learning is sub par in most cases and many parents aren't even participating because it just isn't a full education.

As a parent it’s your decision to opt out of learning. It has nothing to do with public policy, though. If you’d prefer to put together your own homeschool curriculum or purchase one then you are welcome to do so.
I do think schools are fundamentally different than offices though. For one, in terms of the number of people gathered together in a school. For another, the lack of hygiene practices among the people it serves. The lack of independence of elementary school students is another factor. If you’re wiping your coworkers noses and holding their hands, then god bless you. Do your coworkers routinely share toys, balls, school supplies, play doh, art supplies, etc? Do your coworkers travel together to work on a crowded school bus? Do you have the ability to wash your hands and distance yourself from other people in your office? Do your coworkers regularly come to work sick and coughing all over you? Because schools are not the same. You can insist that they are but the reality is that they are breeding grounds for germs of all kinds. Every child in my class got the flu last year except TWO. I got it too! Because elementary schools are hands on, germy environments and to do my job effectively I have to work closely with the kids. I hate distance learning. It’s utterly joyless. But I’m not going to shut my mouth and be a good soldier so that you can go back to your own life. If the numbers increase then schools will need to be shut again and teachers will absolutely put pressure on schools, districts, and local governments to do so.

Ok if you don't want to go back to work then you shouldn't get paid.

We never left work. We’re working full time even now. Schools are huge, dense gathering places. This is a pandemic. People are dying. I know you want to get back to your regular life but you aren’t living in reality. If there are outbreaks in schools/cities/counties then schools will shut down all over again, regardless of how much you oppose it. You are naive to think otherwise.

Many many teachers are not working anywhere near 40+ hrs per week right now. There is no nation wide distance learning standard. My kids get one zoom session per week and about 30 min worth of online material material they access per day. It is in way, shape, or form and equal substitute to their regular school day.

[Anonymous]

I would like the districts to train teachers on optimal online learning, since it will likely be the default next school year. My kids complain that it's boring and that none of the teachers, except one, know how to use technology to teach. With some strategies in hand, it would be make classroom learning much more rewarding and engaging.