Public/Charter School Lottery Experience

[Anonymous]

Totally lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you mind telling me about your lottery experience and why you chose not to send your child(ren) to your IB school? TIA

For us -- very few parents I have met in our neighborhood send their kids to our neighborhood school. That is in part, I think, because there are multiple Tier One charter schools (and even more lower tier charter schools) near us. Also, what used to be our neighborhood school closed and now half the neighborhood is zoned for an elementary to the south of us and half to the northeast. Either one would be a long walk with a preschooler (I'd probably try to bike or just drive). We visited our inbound school and it looked fine, but their sell seemed like, "We're a nice neighborhood school focusing on preparing our kids for the future." Fine, but if we can't walk there, why not drive an extra 5-10 minutes and get to a school that has dual language, or is Tier One, or has something else that sounds so special? Also, I don't think test scores are everything, the fact that over 75% of kids tested didn't even "meet expectations" on the standardized tests was not a selling point. Now, I'd overlook these scores if the school had a really compelling approach or mission; say, if their sell was -- "We don't teach to the test and spend time reading Shakespeare instead." Or, "part of our mission is to serve children with special needs, who don't do well on the standardized tests, but here's how we can show you these kids are making progress." If the school's "sell" is that they are teaching kids the basics, but the scores indicate that most of the kids at the school don't know the basics, well, that's not really encouraging to a prospective parent. If we didn't get in anywhere else, yes, I would have sent my kids to our neighborhood school for preschool and taken it year by year. But we did the lottery and got into charters that sounded better, so we went there.

It seems like you are an Edgewood resident IB for Langley (the closed school being Shaed?) If so, I will mention for the record that Langley offers something special-- a socioemotional program which I love, perhaps it was not there yet when you looked? And that Langley operates numerous self-contained classrooms for kids with Level 4 IEPs, so that does have an impact on the test scores. I know the scores are not great overall, but our experience at Langley has been very positive and more and more parents are enrolling.

People do seem quite happy at Langley preschool! Yet the test scores for older kids are alarmingly bad and many of us want to stay here through elementary. I’m curious to see how that all sorts out. People want to support the school but it’s hard to invest in an environment that apparently has so far to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people get their top 3 choice. That’s the lottery. You mainly hear from those that didn’t in this forum. But statistically speaking, some people are bound to get a terrific master number. Pray you’re one of them. And if it doesn’t happen one year, try the next. Have a back up plan you feel comfortable with and don’t worry about the rest.

This argument insinuates that the impression that it is unlikely to get into a top choice is created by the self-selection of DCUM posters and wrong. That is absolutely misleading. Whether posters self-select in this way or not, it is a statistical fact that it is very unlikely for someone entering the lottery without preferences to get into one of the most popular charters. If the number of people who are getting one of their top choices seems high, it is because they chose their IB or because they have sibling preference.

This. I would love to see the statistic for people trying to get into schools without any preference. I’m sure it’s quite low.

It's pretty low for PK3, but higher for PK4 for various reasons.

It's also important to note that while many people get into one of their top 3 choices, many people have in their top 3 choices a school that is not actually hard for them to get into. If their older child is at a school they like, their younger child is 99% of the time going to get in, and they would rank it first if it were their true #1 preference. And some people aren't planning to stick around in DC so they don't care about middle school or even upper elementary and just pick a nice preschool with a short commute.

Agreed. The statistics the MySchoolDC folks like to tout about people matching at top choices really makes it seem like folks with no preferences have a decent shot. And that’s not the case for most schools.

Yes - let's face it, if the statistic about how many match with no preferences wasn't damning, it would be released and widely distributed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you mind telling me about your lottery experience and why you chose not to send your child(ren) to your IB school? TIA

For us -- very few parents I have met in our neighborhood send their kids to our neighborhood school. That is in part, I think, because there are multiple Tier One charter schools (and even more lower tier charter schools) near us. Also, what used to be our neighborhood school closed and now half the neighborhood is zoned for an elementary to the south of us and half to the northeast. Either one would be a long walk with a preschooler (I'd probably try to bike or just drive). We visited our inbound school and it looked fine, but their sell seemed like, "We're a nice neighborhood school focusing on preparing our kids for the future." Fine, but if we can't walk there, why not drive an extra 5-10 minutes and get to a school that has dual language, or is Tier One, or has something else that sounds so special? Also, I don't think test scores are everything, the fact that over 75% of kids tested didn't even "meet expectations" on the standardized tests was not a selling point. Now, I'd overlook these scores if the school had a really compelling approach or mission; say, if their sell was -- "We don't teach to the test and spend time reading Shakespeare instead." Or, "part of our mission is to serve children with special needs, who don't do well on the standardized tests, but here's how we can show you these kids are making progress." If the school's "sell" is that they are teaching kids the basics, but the scores indicate that most of the kids at the school don't know the basics, well, that's not really encouraging to a prospective parent. If we didn't get in anywhere else, yes, I would have sent my kids to our neighborhood school for preschool and taken it year by year. But we did the lottery and got into charters that sounded better, so we went there.

It seems like you are an Edgewood resident IB for Langley (the closed school being Shaed?) If so, I will mention for the record that Langley offers something special-- a socioemotional program which I love, perhaps it was not there yet when you looked? And that Langley operates numerous self-contained classrooms for kids with Level 4 IEPs, so that does have an impact on the test scores. I know the scores are not great overall, but our experience at Langley has been very positive and more and more parents are enrolling.

People do seem quite happy at Langley preschool! Yet the test scores for older kids are alarmingly bad and many of us want to stay here through elementary. I’m curious to see how that all sorts out. People want to support the school but it’s hard to invest in an environment that apparently has so far to go.

The test scores will likely stay pretty bad-- as long as the school is operating so many classrooms for kids with the highest level of special needs, the kind that mean separate classrooms with a specially trained teacher. However, there are other metrics available. Check out the school blog where the K-2nd test scores are posted-- they are not awesome, but nowhere near as bad as the PARCC 3-5th, and they do reflect that the school exceeded all four the goals that downtown set for it for those age groups. I'm not gonna blow sunshine at you, there's a long way to go, and as the school improves it attracts kids from nearby schools that are lower-performing. But I feel really positive about the improving test scores, the socioemotional curriculum, and the teachers and leadership. I believe Langley can be a high-performing, high-diversity school, it's just a matter of putting in an effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you mind telling me about your lottery experience and why you chose not to send your child(ren) to your IB school? TIA

For us -- very few parents I have met in our neighborhood send their kids to our neighborhood school. That is in part, I think, because there are multiple Tier One charter schools (and even more lower tier charter schools) near us. Also, what used to be our neighborhood school closed and now half the neighborhood is zoned for an elementary to the south of us and half to the northeast. Either one would be a long walk with a preschooler (I'd probably try to bike or just drive). We visited our inbound school and it looked fine, but their sell seemed like, "We're a nice neighborhood school focusing on preparing our kids for the future." Fine, but if we can't walk there, why not drive an extra 5-10 minutes and get to a school that has dual language, or is Tier One, or has something else that sounds so special? Also, I don't think test scores are everything, the fact that over 75% of kids tested didn't even "meet expectations" on the standardized tests was not a selling point. Now, I'd overlook these scores if the school had a really compelling approach or mission; say, if their sell was -- "We don't teach to the test and spend time reading Shakespeare instead." Or, "part of our mission is to serve children with special needs, who don't do well on the standardized tests, but here's how we can show you these kids are making progress." If the school's "sell" is that they are teaching kids the basics, but the scores indicate that most of the kids at the school don't know the basics, well, that's not really encouraging to a prospective parent. If we didn't get in anywhere else, yes, I would have sent my kids to our neighborhood school for preschool and taken it year by year. But we did the lottery and got into charters that sounded better, so we went there.

It seems like you are an Edgewood resident IB for Langley (the closed school being Shaed?) If so, I will mention for the record that Langley offers something special-- a socioemotional program which I love, perhaps it was not there yet when you looked? And that Langley operates numerous self-contained classrooms for kids with Level 4 IEPs, so that does have an impact on the test scores. I know the scores are not great overall, but our experience at Langley has been very positive and more and more parents are enrolling.

People do seem quite happy at Langley preschool! Yet the test scores for older kids are alarmingly bad and many of us want to stay here through elementary. I’m curious to see how that all sorts out. People want to support the school but it’s hard to invest in an environment that apparently has so far to go.

The test scores will likely stay pretty bad-- as long as the school is operating so many classrooms for kids with the highest level of special needs, the kind that mean separate classrooms with a specially trained teacher. However, there are other metrics available. Check out the school blog where the K-2nd test scores are posted-- they are not awesome, but nowhere near as bad as the PARCC 3-5th, and they do reflect that the school exceeded all four the goals that downtown set for it for those age groups. I'm not gonna blow sunshine at you, there's a long way to go, and as the school improves it attracts kids from nearby schools that are lower-performing. But I feel really positive about the improving test scores, the socioemotional curriculum, and the teachers and leadership. I believe Langley can be a high-performing, high-diversity school, it's just a matter of putting in an effort.

This is helpful context! Thank you, I will dig further.

[Anonymous]

R

[Anonymous]

Re Langley and special education classrooms -- or really any school with students in self-contained classrooms. IT is true Langley has a high percentage of thsoe students. What is less clear is whether all those students are in testing years or not.

But Langley has 150 students who are at risk -- which is clearly affects the test score data far more than the students in the self-contained classrooms (although obviously, some students can be both severely disabled and at-risk). The at-risk student 4+ rate is 6% ELA /5% Math compared to the not at-risk 4+ rate of 10%/15%.

FYI The following DCPS schools have more than 25 students in a Level 4 classroom (highest level of needs) in 17-18 (from OSSE enrollment audit spreadsheets). I'm excluding River Terrace, which is all SN.

The # of students in level 4 classroom / total enrollment

Tyler 33/525
Patterson 36/574
Seaton 25/371
Ludlow-Taylor 34/414
CW Harris 29/278
Whittier 29/325
Beers 48/484
Langley 39/275

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re Langley and special education classrooms -- or really any school with students in self-contained classrooms. IT is true Langley has a high percentage of thsoe students. What is less clear is whether all those students are in testing years or not.

But Langley has 150 students who are at risk -- which is clearly affects the test score data far more than the students in the self-contained classrooms (although obviously, some students can be both severely disabled and at-risk). The at-risk student 4+ rate is 6% ELA /5% Math compared to the not at-risk 4+ rate of 10%/15%.

FYI The following DCPS schools have more than 25 students in a Level 4 classroom (highest level of needs) in 17-18 (from OSSE enrollment audit spreadsheets). I'm excluding River Terrace, which is all SN.

The # of students in level 4 classroom / total enrollment

Tyler 33/525
Patterson 36/574
Seaton 25/371
Ludlow-Taylor 34/414
CW Harris 29/278
Whittier 29/325
Beers 48/484
Langley 39/275

Yes. So Langley has a high number of level 4 students, and also it is very high as a percentage of the total school population.

A large special ed program can be advantageous because there is funding for a dedicated program manager, and the school can offer full-time positions to the various therapists, which makes it easy to attract good people. It also means a full-time nurse, which a school of that size might not otherwise have.

It is true that the non-Level IV test scores are also not so hot. It is hard to compare this year PARCC to last year because they have made some changes in how the data is displayed. For anyone looking at Langley (or any school) for preschool or K, I would encourage you to take a detailed look at the PARCC, request K-2nd test scores, and also look median growth percentiles. PARCC does not tell you much if a lot of students are new to the school that year, and a lot of them are (everywhere, not just Langley). There is a lot more than meets the eye if you just look at the oversimplified display on School Profiles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re Langley and special education classrooms -- or really any school with students in self-contained classrooms. IT is true Langley has a high percentage of thsoe students. What is less clear is whether all those students are in testing years or not.

But Langley has 150 students who are at risk -- which is clearly affects the test score data far more than the students in the self-contained classrooms (although obviously, some students can be both severely disabled and at-risk). The at-risk student 4+ rate is 6% ELA /5% Math compared to the not at-risk 4+ rate of 10%/15%.

FYI The following DCPS schools have more than 25 students in a Level 4 classroom (highest level of needs) in 17-18 (from OSSE enrollment audit spreadsheets). I'm excluding River Terrace, which is all SN.

The # of students in level 4 classroom / total enrollment

Tyler 33/525
Patterson 36/574
Seaton 25/371
Ludlow-Taylor 34/414
CW Harris 29/278
Whittier 29/325
Beers 48/484
Langley 39/275

Yes. So Langley has a high number of level 4 students, and also it is very high as a percentage of the total school population.

A large special ed program can be advantageous because there is funding for a dedicated program manager, and the school can offer full-time positions to the various therapists, which makes it easy to attract good people. It also means a full-time nurse, which a school of that size might not otherwise have.

It is true that the non-Level IV test scores are also not so hot. It is hard to compare this year PARCC to last year because they have made some changes in how the data is displayed. For anyone looking at Langley (or any school) for preschool or K, I would encourage you to take a detailed look at the PARCC, request K-2nd test scores, and also look median growth percentiles. PARCC does not tell you much if a lot of students are new to the school that year, and a lot of them are (everywhere, not just Langley). There is a lot more than meets the eye if you just look at the oversimplified display on School Profiles.

3-year detailed PARCc scores here. You can also see how many students (assuming the number is more than 10) in each school took the PARCC alternative test (for students with extreme disabilities). https://osse.dc.gov/node/1348731

The main public reporting difference is that DC is going to no longer to separate scores for economically disadvantaged students. At-risk students, special needs students and racial and ethnic groups scores are still available separately.

[Anonymous]

Why Do You Hate Your Neighbors? PP has slinked on off. LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re Langley and special education classrooms -- or really any school with students in self-contained classrooms. IT is true Langley has a high percentage of thsoe students. What is less clear is whether all those students are in testing years or not.

But Langley has 150 students who are at risk -- which is clearly affects the test score data far more than the students in the self-contained classrooms (although obviously, some students can be both severely disabled and at-risk). The at-risk student 4+ rate is 6% ELA /5% Math compared to the not at-risk 4+ rate of 10%/15%.

FYI The following DCPS schools have more than 25 students in a Level 4 classroom (highest level of needs) in 17-18 (from OSSE enrollment audit spreadsheets). I'm excluding River Terrace, which is all SN.

The # of students in level 4 classroom / total enrollment

Tyler 33/525
Patterson 36/574
Seaton 25/371
Ludlow-Taylor 34/414
CW Harris 29/278
Whittier 29/325
Beers 48/484
Langley 39/275

Yes. So Langley has a high number of level 4 students, and also it is very high as a percentage of the total school population.

A large special ed program can be advantageous because there is funding for a dedicated program manager, and the school can offer full-time positions to the various therapists, which makes it easy to attract good people. It also means a full-time nurse, which a school of that size might not otherwise have.

It is true that the non-Level IV test scores are also not so hot. It is hard to compare this year PARCC to last year because they have made some changes in how the data is displayed. For anyone looking at Langley (or any school) for preschool or K, I would encourage you to take a detailed look at the PARCC, request K-2nd test scores, and also look median growth percentiles. PARCC does not tell you much if a lot of students are new to the school that year, and a lot of them are (everywhere, not just Langley). There is a lot more than meets the eye if you just look at the oversimplified display on School Profiles.

3-year detailed PARCc scores here. You can also see how many students (assuming the number is more than 10) in each school took the PARCC alternative test (for students with extreme disabilities). https://osse.dc.gov/node/1348731

The main public reporting difference is that DC is going to no longer to separate scores for economically disadvantaged students. At-risk students, special needs students and racial and ethnic groups scores are still available separately.

I was confused by how special needs vs students with disabilities reporting seems to have changed from last year to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re Langley and special education classrooms -- or really any school with students in self-contained classrooms. IT is true Langley has a high percentage of thsoe students. What is less clear is whether all those students are in testing years or not.

But Langley has 150 students who are at risk -- which is clearly affects the test score data far more than the students in the self-contained classrooms (although obviously, some students can be both severely disabled and at-risk). The at-risk student 4+ rate is 6% ELA /5% Math compared to the not at-risk 4+ rate of 10%/15%.

FYI The following DCPS schools have more than 25 students in a Level 4 classroom (highest level of needs) in 17-18 (from OSSE enrollment audit spreadsheets). I'm excluding River Terrace, which is all SN.

The # of students in level 4 classroom / total enrollment

Tyler 33/525
Patterson 36/574
Seaton 25/371
Ludlow-Taylor 34/414
CW Harris 29/278
Whittier 29/325
Beers 48/484
Langley 39/275

Yes. So Langley has a high number of level 4 students, and also it is very high as a percentage of the total school population.

A large special ed program can be advantageous because there is funding for a dedicated program manager, and the school can offer full-time positions to the various therapists, which makes it easy to attract good people. It also means a full-time nurse, which a school of that size might not otherwise have.

It is true that the non-Level IV test scores are also not so hot. It is hard to compare this year PARCC to last year because they have made some changes in how the data is displayed. For anyone looking at Langley (or any school) for preschool or K, I would encourage you to take a detailed look at the PARCC, request K-2nd test scores, and also look median growth percentiles. PARCC does not tell you much if a lot of students are new to the school that year, and a lot of them are (everywhere, not just Langley). There is a lot more than meets the eye if you just look at the oversimplified display on School Profiles.

3-year detailed PARCc scores here. You can also see how many students (assuming the number is more than 10) in each school took the PARCC alternative test (for students with extreme disabilities). https://osse.dc.gov/node/1348731

The main public reporting difference is that DC is going to no longer to separate scores for economically disadvantaged students. At-risk students, special needs students and racial and ethnic groups scores are still available separately.

I was confused by how special needs vs students with disabilities reporting seems to have changed from last year to this.

SN and students with disabilities are the same thing. There is no break out of PARCC scores by Level of SN -- aside from teh very tiny percentage of SN students who take the alternative assessment. But that isnt' a change from previous years.

Results.osse.dc.gov allows you to see how students with disabilities scored overall if the school has more than 10 in the testing grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re Langley and special education classrooms -- or really any school with students in self-contained classrooms. IT is true Langley has a high percentage of thsoe students. What is less clear is whether all those students are in testing years or not.

But Langley has 150 students who are at risk -- which is clearly affects the test score data far more than the students in the self-contained classrooms (although obviously, some students can be both severely disabled and at-risk). The at-risk student 4+ rate is 6% ELA /5% Math compared to the not at-risk 4+ rate of 10%/15%.

FYI The following DCPS schools have more than 25 students in a Level 4 classroom (highest level of needs) in 17-18 (from OSSE enrollment audit spreadsheets). I'm excluding River Terrace, which is all SN.

The # of students in level 4 classroom / total enrollment

Tyler 33/525
Patterson 36/574
Seaton 25/371
Ludlow-Taylor 34/414
CW Harris 29/278
Whittier 29/325
Beers 48/484
Langley 39/275

Yes. So Langley has a high number of level 4 students, and also it is very high as a percentage of the total school population.

A large special ed program can be advantageous because there is funding for a dedicated program manager, and the school can offer full-time positions to the various therapists, which makes it easy to attract good people. It also means a full-time nurse, which a school of that size might not otherwise have.

It is true that the non-Level IV test scores are also not so hot. It is hard to compare this year PARCC to last year because they have made some changes in how the data is displayed. For anyone looking at Langley (or any school) for preschool or K, I would encourage you to take a detailed look at the PARCC, request K-2nd test scores, and also look median growth percentiles. PARCC does not tell you much if a lot of students are new to the school that year, and a lot of them are (everywhere, not just Langley). There is a lot more than meets the eye if you just look at the oversimplified display on School Profiles.

3-year detailed PARCc scores here. You can also see how many students (assuming the number is more than 10) in each school took the PARCC alternative test (for students with extreme disabilities). https://osse.dc.gov/node/1348731

The main public reporting difference is that DC is going to no longer to separate scores for economically disadvantaged students. At-risk students, special needs students and racial and ethnic groups scores are still available separately.

I was confused by how special needs vs students with disabilities reporting seems to have changed from last year to this.

SN and students with disabilities are the same thing. There is no break out of PARCC scores by Level of SN -- aside from teh very tiny percentage of SN students who take the alternative assessment. But that isnt' a change from previous years.

Results.osse.dc.gov allows you to see how students with disabilities scored overall if the school has more than 10 in the testing grades.

When I look at the OSSE 17-18 Detailed Results spreadsheet I see the subgroup Students With Disabilities on 2018. On the 2017 spreadsheet I see the subgroup Active or Monitored Special Education. Are they the same thing? Also, MSAA results are gone from the 2018 spreadsheets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re Langley and special education classrooms -- or really any school with students in self-contained classrooms. IT is true Langley has a high percentage of thsoe students. What is less clear is whether all those students are in testing years or not.

But Langley has 150 students who are at risk -- which is clearly affects the test score data far more than the students in the self-contained classrooms (although obviously, some students can be both severely disabled and at-risk). The at-risk student 4+ rate is 6% ELA /5% Math compared to the not at-risk 4+ rate of 10%/15%.

FYI The following DCPS schools have more than 25 students in a Level 4 classroom (highest level of needs) in 17-18 (from OSSE enrollment audit spreadsheets). I'm excluding River Terrace, which is all SN.

The # of students in level 4 classroom / total enrollment

Tyler 33/525
Patterson 36/574
Seaton 25/371
Ludlow-Taylor 34/414
CW Harris 29/278
Whittier 29/325
Beers 48/484
Langley 39/275

Yes. So Langley has a high number of level 4 students, and also it is very high as a percentage of the total school population.

A large special ed program can be advantageous because there is funding for a dedicated program manager, and the school can offer full-time positions to the various therapists, which makes it easy to attract good people. It also means a full-time nurse, which a school of that size might not otherwise have.

It is true that the non-Level IV test scores are also not so hot. It is hard to compare this year PARCC to last year because they have made some changes in how the data is displayed. For anyone looking at Langley (or any school) for preschool or K, I would encourage you to take a detailed look at the PARCC, request K-2nd test scores, and also look median growth percentiles. PARCC does not tell you much if a lot of students are new to the school that year, and a lot of them are (everywhere, not just Langley). There is a lot more than meets the eye if you just look at the oversimplified display on School Profiles.

3-year detailed PARCc scores here. You can also see how many students (assuming the number is more than 10) in each school took the PARCC alternative test (for students with extreme disabilities). https://osse.dc.gov/node/1348731

The main public reporting difference is that DC is going to no longer to separate scores for economically disadvantaged students. At-risk students, special needs students and racial and ethnic groups scores are still available separately.

I was confused by how special needs vs students with disabilities reporting seems to have changed from last year to this.

SN and students with disabilities are the same thing. There is no break out of PARCC scores by Level of SN -- aside from teh very tiny percentage of SN students who take the alternative assessment. But that isnt' a change from previous years.

Results.osse.dc.gov allows you to see how students with disabilities scored overall if the school has more than 10 in the testing grades.

When I look at the OSSE 17-18 Detailed Results spreadsheet I see the subgroup Students With Disabilities on 2018. On the 2017 spreadsheet I see the subgroup Active or Monitored Special Education. Are they the same thing? Also, MSAA results are gone from the 2018 spreadsheets.

MSAA hasn't been scored yet. And yes SWD and Active/Monitored Special Education are the same thing.

[Anonymous]

OP, is your anxiety being treated? That would help.