I Live Comfortably on Less than $70K After-Tax in DC Area

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good for you OP.

I lived the same way (before marriage and kids). Bought a small home in a near'ish neighborhood to DC, lived comfortably and travelled some on a salary of $75-90k (gross).

Now I'm in a two income family with two kids and we have a much higher combined income, though still nothing stratospheric. We own three homes (the ones we each owned prior to marriage and the one we bought together) and we live very comfortably.

My husband and I are both people who lived well within our means before we met, save money regularly, are careful w/ our money, etc... and we continue to do so now. We are blessed that we have solid, stable income obviously, but don't shoot for things that are out of our reach and we have minimal financial stress as a result.

OP here, and thanks. Just a couple of years ago I was earning $75k (net) and I still did fine. You're right that a big part of the puzzle is not to have expensive "wants" and not to buy things that requires borrowing (other than a home, car, and education). I worked for a bank one summer, and you wouldn't believe how many people come in to borrow $2,000 for a vacation, or someone earning $30,000 who applies for a $40,000 car loan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is definitely a dude.

OP here, and I am a dudette! But you're right. I forgot to add in my haircuts once every 8 weeks, at $80 each, including tips. Make-up and skin care comes out of the household stuff line item.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

OP here. It all depends on your deductions. Do you deduct mortgage interest and property tax? (That was accounted for in my PITI.) But also, remember, I'm not earning $85,000 - that's the amount I estimated would yield $70k net. That's almost 20% in taxes, which is actually more than would be expected. (People confuse their marginal tax rate with the percent of income going to taxes.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

OP here. It all depends on your deductions. Do you deduct mortgage interest and property tax? (That was accounted for in my PITI.) But also, remember, I'm not earning $85,000 - that's the amount I estimated would yield $70k net. That's almost 20% in taxes, which is actually more than would be expected. (People confuse their marginal tax rate with the percent of income going to taxes.)

Do you live somewhere that you don't pay state taxes?

[Anonymous]

Here are some of the things that I have spent money on in the few years, in no particular order. All of this is "discretionary" spending but none of it feels really optional. OP is young and clueless, but some day she might sing a different song.

1. Thousands of dollars in airfare and legal fees to visit sick/dying family member in another state and attend to probate and house sale related issues following relative's death.
2. Legal fees to draft will/guardianship documents for our kids. We had put this off due to $$ issues, but decided we couldn't after going through #1 above.
3. Orthodontia for kid with severe underbite (not merely a cosmetic issue, but would have long term negative health outcome if left unchecked.)
4. New eye glasses due to changed prescription (not covered by crappy health insurance policy).
5. E.R. expenses for seemingly healthy and fit DH's kidney stones (not covered by crappy health insurance policy.)
6. Emergency vet fees for cat that died anyway.
7. $80/month copay for allergy shots so kid can function
8. New dressers for both kids after Ikea ones they'd had since infancy finally gave up the ghost
9. Paid winter snowplow fees for elderly parent living on fixed income in another (very snowy) state, because said stubborn parent was insisting on trying to do it himself despite having fallen several times on the ice.
10. Paid to have huge dead tree in back yard cut down and removed so that it wouldn't fall on our house and kill us in our sleep. Yeah that was $2k right there.
11. New tires for car.
12. Post-insurance MRI costs for 10 year old kid with symptoms consistent with a brain tumor (found out she is fine)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

OP here. It all depends on your deductions. Do you deduct mortgage interest and property tax? (That was accounted for in my PITI.) But also, remember, I'm not earning $85,000 - that's the amount I estimated would yield $70k net. That's almost 20% in taxes, which is actually more than would be expected. (People confuse their marginal tax rate with the percent of income going to taxes.)

Do you live somewhere that you don't pay state taxes?

No....state taxes are included in the $15,000. But let's even say I'm wrong, and it takes $90k gross to net $70k. That still should show people who are saying $90k is poor - I've seen people calling even $100k poor on this forum - that they are wrong, and a single can live nicely on that income. So, if a single earning $90k is comfortable, I just don't het how families earning $250k - triple, almost! - are struggling.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who referenced a gross annual income of $75-90k.

When I bought my house I was making 75k, and for several years while I remained single my income crept up annually to roughly the 90k mark. Then I got married.

So I meant that as the range of gross income I had during those years, not my net at any given point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

OP here. It all depends on your deductions. Do you deduct mortgage interest and property tax? (That was accounted for in my PITI.) But also, remember, I'm not earning $85,000 - that's the amount I estimated would yield $70k net. That's almost 20% in tax
es, which is actually more than would be expected. (People confuse their marginal tax rate with the percent of income going to taxes.)

Do you live somewhere that you don't pay state taxes?

No....state taxes are included in the $15,000. But let's even say I'm wrong, and it takes $90k gross to net $70k. That still should show people who are saying $90k is poor - I've seen people calling even $100k poor on this forum - that they are wrong, and a single can live nicely on that income. So, if a single earning $90k is comfortable, I just don't het how families earning $250k - triple, almost! - are struggling.

Mostly it's that as a childless adult you can live someplace with so-so to bad schools in a tiny rundown place with lead paint.

And your schedule is flexible enough you can carpool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

OP here. It all depends on your deductions. Do you deduct mortgage interest and property tax? (That was accounted for in my PITI.) But also, remember, I'm not earning $85,000 - that's the amount I estimated would yield $70k net. That's almost 20% in tax
es, which is actually more than would be expected. (People confuse their marginal tax rate with the percent of income going to taxes.)

Do you live somewhere that you don't pay state taxes?

No....state taxes are included in the $15,000. But let's even say I'm wrong, and it takes $90k gross to net $70k. That still should show people who are saying $90k is poor - I've seen people calling even $100k poor on this forum - that they are wrong, and a single can live nicely on that income. So, if a single earning $90k is comfortable, I just don't het how families earning $250k - triple, almost! - are struggling.

Mostly it's that as a childless adult you can live someplace with so-so to bad schools in a tiny rundown place with lead paint.

And your schedule is flexible enough you can carpool.

Oh and daycare is more expensive than your mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

OP here. It all depends on your deductions. Do you deduct mortgage interest and property tax? (That was accounted for in my PITI.) But also, remember, I'm not earning $85,000 - that's the amount I estimated would yield $70k net. That's almost 20% in tax
es, which is actually more than would be expected. (People confuse their marginal tax rate with the percent of income going to taxes.)

Do you live somewhere that you don't pay state taxes?

No....state taxes are included in the $15,000. But let's even say I'm wrong, and it takes $90k gross to net $70k. That still should show people who are saying $90k is poor - I've seen people calling even $100k poor on this forum - that they are wrong, and a single can live nicely on that income. So, if a single earning $90k is comfortable, I just don't het how families earning $250k - triple, almost! - are struggling.

Mostly it's that as a childless adult you can live someplace with so-so to bad schools in a tiny rundown place with lead paint.

And your schedule is flexible enough you can carpool.

Not to mention no student loans, fine with living in the burbs and only taking one vacation/year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here are some of the things that I have spent money on in the few years, in no particular order. All of this is "discretionary" spending but none of it feels really optional. OP is young and clueless, but some day she might sing a different song.

1. Thousands of dollars in airfare and legal fees to visit sick/dying family member in another state and attend to probate and house sale related issues following relative's death.
2. Legal fees to draft will/guardianship documents for our kids. We had put this off due to $$ issues, but decided we couldn't after going through #1 above.
3. Orthodontia for kid with severe underbite (not merely a cosmetic issue, but would have long term negative health outcome if left unchecked.)
4. New eye glasses due to changed prescription (not covered by crappy health insurance policy).
5. E.R. expenses for seemingly healthy and fit DH's kidney stones (not covered by crappy health insurance policy.)
6. Emergency vet fees for cat that died anyway.
7. $80/month copay for allergy shots so kid can function
8. New dressers for both kids after Ikea ones they'd had since infancy finally gave up the ghost
9. Paid winter snowplow fees for elderly parent living on fixed income in another (very snowy) state, because said stubborn parent was insisting on trying to do it himself despite having fallen several times on the ice.
10. Paid to have huge dead tree in back yard cut down and removed so that it wouldn't fall on our house and kill us in our sleep. Yeah that was $2k right there.
11. New tires for car.
12. Post-insurance MRI costs for 10 year old kid with symptoms consistent with a brain tumor (found out she is fine)

OP here. Lots of the expensive stuff you're listing are for kids. My budget is for singles, so you can't compare. I would assume that with a second income, my/our spending could cover an additional $6,000 a month. That's plenty, even with $2,000 for childcare, allergy slots co-pay of $80, snowplow fees, and so on.

I'm glad your DD is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

OP here. It all depends on your deductions. Do you deduct mortgage interest and property tax? (That was accounted for in my PITI.) But also, remember, I'm not earning $85,000 - that's the amount I estimated would yield $70k net. That's almost 20% in tax
es, which is actually more than would be expected. (People confuse their marginal tax rate with the percent of income going to taxes.)

Do you live somewhere that you don't pay state taxes?

No....state taxes are included in the $15,000. But let's even say I'm wrong, and it takes $90k gross to net $70k. That still should show people who are saying $90k is poor - I've seen people calling even $100k poor on this forum - that they are wrong, and a single can live nicely on that income. So, if a single earning $90k is comfortable, I just don't het how families earning $250k - triple, almost! - are struggling.

Mostly it's that as a childless adult you can live someplace with so-so to bad schools in a tiny rundown place with lead paint.

And your schedule is flexible enough you can carpool.

Yea, kiss that flexible schedule and carpool good-bye once you're doing daycare drop-offs. No offense, op, but you sound clueless.

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised that no one has called out only saving $8400 / year for retirement.

Maybe you're comfortable now...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived comfortably on 30K a year when I was single. Now I earn a LOT more, but money is a lot tighter, because I have to pay childcare for 3 kids, student loans, non-subsidized health insurance, preschool, a safe and large enough car (3 kids in carseats won't fit in a cheap two-door like I had back then), health care, the list goes on and on.

Now back when I was earning 30k, single and had enough left over to travel internationally, I could have been super-smug and claimed that I didn't understand how families making twice or three times my salary weren't rich. But I wasn't a jerk, and wasn't so arrogant as to assume that I knew other people's situations, or that I had a right to judge.

OP here. I wasn't being smug. My comment was in response to DCUMers who keep saying that $80k is poor, even for a single w/o kids. I was showing how that isn't true, and how $70k after tax (which is around $85k gross) is a nice standard of living (if one doesn't insist on living in DC.)

If $70k after tax is $85k gross, I want to speak with you accountant. I'm getting screwed.

OP here. It all depends on your deductions. Do you deduct mortgage interest and property tax? (That was accounted for in my PITI.) But also, remember, I'm not earning $85,000 - that's the amount I estimated would yield $70k net. That's almost 20% in tax
es, which is actually more than would be expected. (People confuse their marginal tax rate with the percent of income going to taxes.)

Do you live somewhere that you don't pay state taxes?

No....state taxes are included in the $15,000. But let's even say I'm wrong, and it takes $90k gross to net $70k. That still should show people who are saying $90k is poor - I've seen people calling even $100k poor on this forum - that they are wrong, and a single can live nicely on that income. So, if a single earning $90k is comfortable, I just don't het how families earning $250k - triple, almost! - are struggling.

Mostly it's that as a childless adult you can live someplace with so-so to bad schools in a tiny rundown place with lead paint.

And your schedule is flexible enough you can carpool.

Not to mention no student loans, fine with living in the burbs and only taking one vacation/year.

OP here. Why would you assume I live in a tiny run-down place with lead paint? I own a beautiful 3-bedroom, 3-bathroom townhouse, built less than 15 years ago. No asbestos, either.

And as far as one vacation a year, that's quite typical - and explains why families earning $300k are saying it's not much money. I guess it's not much money if you want to go on a winter ski trip, spring break in the Caribbean, and another week up in Nantucket in the summer. But that's how rich people live. That's more than "comfortable."