What so you think happens to us when we die?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think just as there was no consciousness that was "me" before I was born, after I die there will no longer be a consciousness that is me. My body will decompose / be cremated and that is that.

The very idea of a heaven where we all congregate after death just seems like such a man-made construct to me. Especially when you start thinking of some of the logistics. So, do you hang out with your parents/friends/children? And your parents hang out with their parents/friends/children, and your children hang out with their friends/children/grandchildren, and ad finitum until it gets to be quite crowded in terms of who's hanging out with whom.

And how far back do souls go, anyway? When you look back into the origins and evolution of the genus Homo, when did the first of the species get a soul that got to go to heaven? Did Neanderthals have souls? If not, does that seem very fair to them? So they just died and never got to have an afterlife? Or did humans just start getting into heaven after Jesus? That doesn't seem very fair, either, to all who came before him.

And what do souls do in heaven all day, anyway?

Did all the 12 fertilized embryos I had that didn't take have souls and are they going to be fully developed beings up in heaven? Does that mean there are twice as many souls in heaven as have ever been on earth since at least half of all conceptions never make it to birth? Seems even more crowded and insane.

Sorry, I know OP asked for short answers, but when you start thinking about these sorts of questions you realize the silliness of traditional ideas of a heaven where you, complete with all your memories and feelings, hang out with your loved ones and god for eternity. I mean, what if you really didn't love your spouse and don't want to hang out with him?

It's weird to me that your main issue with heaven seems to be the crowding. How many square miles do you think heaven is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think just as there was no consciousness that was "me" before I was born, after I die there will no longer be a consciousness that is me. My body will decompose / be cremated and that is that.

The very idea of a heaven where we all congregate after death just seems like such a man-made construct to me. Especially when you start thinking of some of the logistics. So, do you hang out with your parents/friends/children? And your parents hang out with their parents/friends/children, and your children hang out with their friends/children/grandchildren, and ad finitum until it gets to be quite crowded in terms of who's hanging out with whom.

And how far back do souls go, anyway? When you look back into the origins and evolution of the genus Homo, when did the first of the species get a soul that got to go to heaven? Did Neanderthals have souls? If not, does that seem very fair to them? So they just died and never got to have an afterlife? Or did humans just start getting into heaven after Jesus? That doesn't seem very fair, either, to all who came before him.

And what do souls do in heaven all day, anyway?

Did all the 12 fertilized embryos I had that didn't take have souls and are they going to be fully developed beings up in heaven? Does that mean there are twice as many souls in heaven as have ever been on earth since at least half of all conceptions never make it to birth? Seems even more crowded and insane.

Sorry, I know OP asked for short answers, but when you start thinking about these sorts of questions you realize the silliness of traditional ideas of a heaven where you, complete with all your memories and feelings, hang out with your loved ones and god for eternity. I mean, what if you really didn't love your spouse and don't want to hang out with him?

It's weird to me that your main issue with heaven seems to be the crowding. How many square miles do you think heaven is?

I'm not the PP, but I think you're missing the point. Who/what gets into "heaven" is a valid question and I have pondered this myself many times. As I have wondered about things like fertilized embryos or who we will hang out with in death. I might want to hang out with my kid and my best friends, but my kid might want to hang with *his* best friends, and my mom might want to hang with me but I'd be cool just checking in with her once a month or so. PP's point (I believe) is that the concept of heaven doesn't really make much sense once you start thinking it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe in God, Jesus , the Holy Spirit , Heaven and Hell.
My personal reasons are spiritual, observational , artifactually and common sense.

1) I believe we have a soul. I think even atheists are a little offended If anybody said their child didn't have a soul.

2) The story of Christ penetrates my soul for some reason. The triumph of love, the balance of justice and the searingly accurate accounting of human weakness does not feel like it originated from human minds. Humans don't like to be humiliated by their character. The way you can't get the story out of your mind or off your hands is unique among any I have witnessed.

3) To me it's obvious their is an intelligent entity that created our existence and physical universe. Matter, time , physical laws, math and love don't just happen from nothing. That is a more unlikely prospect than a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's obvious that our creation occurred outside the realm of math, time , a sequence of events , and physical laws. That would be a entity beyond our comprehension and capacity.

4) the shroud of Turin is the only man made object on earth that man cannot understand or has any idea how to duplicate. And it is the image of Crucified Christ.

5) there is no downside to belief in Christ. If you are on your deathbed it may be your only hope and it would be absolutely foolish not to grasp the only rescue rope you have. If it's not true you haven't lost anything.

The shroud of Turin carbon dates only to the Middle Ages. It's simply a cloth with the image of a man painted on.

That's correct. Carbon dating shows that the shroud dates only to the 16th century, which is exactly when it was first displayed in France.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can one be Catholic or Jewish or whatever and still believe in no afterlife?

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a number of Jewish funerals and noticed that there was no discussion of an afterlife.

That's right. Christians keep harping about an afterlife. We Jews don't talk about it. Maybe there is one, maybe not. Christians are always saying that we must act morally because that's how to get to Heaven. If you act immorally, you go to Hell. To a Jew, that makes no sense. Jews believe that one must act morally because it's the right thing to do. If you're acting morally simply because you're afraid that if you don't, you will burn in Hell for eternity, that doesn't make you a moral person. It makes you a person acting out of self interest.

That's exactly right. Jews believe that if one acts morally in order to get rewarded later on, there is no moral value in that. Belief in an afterlife has cropped up from time to time. In the time of Alexander the Great, Jews believed in reincarnation. The Samaritan form of Judaism teaches that there is an afterlife. But mainstream Judaism does not speak of afterlife. One acts morally because it is the right thing to do, not to get rewarded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can one be Catholic or Jewish or whatever and still believe in no afterlife?

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a number of Jewish funerals and noticed that there was no discussion of an afterlife.

That's right. Christians keep harping about an afterlife. We Jews don't talk about it. Maybe there is one, maybe not. Christians are always saying that we must act morally because that's how to get to Heaven. If you act immorally, you go to Hell. To a Jew, that makes no sense. Jews believe that one must act morally because it's the right thing to do. If you're acting morally simply because you're afraid that if you don't, you will burn in Hell for eternity, that doesn't make you a moral person. It makes you a person acting out of self interest.

This is not Christianity. In Christianity, God's love for us is so overwhelming and perfect, there is nothing we can do to earn it. You don't go to heaven or hell because of what you DO. It is impossible to do enough to enter the Kingdom of God - God is perfect and we are not. Christ poured out his love for us to the point of death. We are so grateful for that, we naturally try to imitate our Lord (and brother) Christ. Of course we fall short, but we attempt do good in imitation of God.

That may be the focus of some forms of Christianity, but other, more fundamentalist forms, focus on getting saved to make it into heaven

Actually, not being able to earn your way into heaven is the focus of the New Testament. All traditional, orthodox strands of Christianity would adhere to this belief. "Earning your way into heaven" is heresy.

That is one interpretation. Other strands of Christianity do not see it that way. Perhaps that's the reason there are so many denominations. People disagree over something and form a new group of people, ad infinitum.

That's a complex issue. There is a huge difference between Catholic theology and Catholic practice. In Catholic practice, one confesses one's sins to a priest who recommends acts of penance. But in Catholic theology, acts can't help you get to Heaven. Only divine grace can do that. Similarly, Catholic Churches have collection boxes for the souls in Purgatory. But in Catholic theology, there is no Purgatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can one be Catholic or Jewish or whatever and still believe in no afterlife?

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a number of Jewish funerals and noticed that there was no discussion of an afterlife.

That's right. Christians keep harping about an afterlife. We Jews don't talk about it. Maybe there is one, maybe not. Christians are always saying that we must act morally because that's how to get to Heaven. If you act immorally, you go to Hell. To a Jew, that makes no sense. Jews believe that one must act morally because it's the right thing to do. If you're acting morally simply because you're afraid that if you don't, you will burn in Hell for eternity, that doesn't make you a moral person. It makes you a person acting out of self interest.

This is not Christianity. In Christianity, God's love for us is so overwhelming and perfect, there is nothing we can do to earn it. You don't go to heaven or hell because of what you DO. It is impossible to do enough to enter the Kingdom of God - God is perfect and we are not. Christ poured out his love for us to the point of death. We are so grateful for that, we naturally try to imitate our Lord (and brother) Christ. Of course we fall short, but we attempt do good in imitation of God.

That may be the focus of some forms of Christianity, but other, more fundamentalist forms, focus on getting saved to make it into heaven

Actually, not being able to earn your way into heaven is the focus of the New Testament. All traditional, orthodox strands of Christianity would adhere to this belief. "Earning your way into heaven" is heresy.

That is one interpretation. Other strands of Christianity do not see it that way. Perhaps that's the reason there are so many denominations. People disagree over something and form a new group of people, ad infinitum.

That's a complex issue. There is a huge difference between Catholic theology and Catholic practice. In Catholic practice, one confesses one's sins to a priest who recommends acts of penance. But in Catholic theology, acts can't help you get to Heaven. Only divine grace can do that. Similarly, Catholic Churches have collection boxes for the souls in Purgatory. But in Catholic theology, there is no Purgatory.

In Catholic Sunday school there was definitely a Purgatory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can one be Catholic or Jewish or whatever and still believe in no afterlife?

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a number of Jewish funerals and noticed that there was no discussion of an afterlife.

That's right. Christians keep harping about an afterlife. We Jews don't talk about it. Maybe there is one, maybe not. Christians are always saying that we must act morally because that's how to get to Heaven. If you act immorally, you go to Hell. To a Jew, that makes no sense. Jews believe that one must act morally because it's the right thing to do. If you're acting morally simply because you're afraid that if you don't, you will burn in Hell for eternity, that doesn't make you a moral person. It makes you a person acting out of self interest.

This is not Christianity. In Christianity, God's love for us is so overwhelming and perfect, there is nothing we can do to earn it. You don't go to heaven or hell because of what you DO. It is impossible to do enough to enter the Kingdom of God - God is perfect and we are not. Christ poured out his love for us to the point of death. We are so grateful for that, we naturally try to imitate our Lord (and brother) Christ. Of course we fall short, but we attempt do good in imitation of God.

That may be the focus of some forms of Christianity, but other, more fundamentalist forms, focus on getting saved to make it into heaven

Actually, not being able to earn your way into heaven is the focus of the New Testament. All traditional, orthodox strands of Christianity would adhere to this belief. "Earning your way into heaven" is heresy.

That is one interpretation. Other strands of Christianity do not see it that way. Perhaps that's the reason there are so many denominations. People disagree over something and form a new group of people, ad infinitum.

That's a complex issue. There is a huge difference between Catholic theology and Catholic practice. In Catholic practice, one confesses one's sins to a priest who recommends acts of penance. But in Catholic theology, acts can't help you get to Heaven. Only divine grace can do that. Similarly, Catholic Churches have collection boxes for the souls in Purgatory. But in Catholic theology, there is no Purgatory.

In Catholic Sunday school, there is definitely a purgatory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can one be Catholic or Jewish or whatever and still believe in no afterlife?

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a number of Jewish funerals and noticed that there was no discussion of an afterlife.

That's right. Christians keep harping about an afterlife. We Jews don't talk about it. Maybe there is one, maybe not. Christians are always saying that we must act morally because that's how to get to Heaven. If you act immorally, you go to Hell. To a Jew, that makes no sense. Jews believe that one must act morally because it's the right thing to do. If you're acting morally simply because you're afraid that if you don't, you will burn in Hell for eternity, that doesn't make you a moral person. It makes you a person acting out of self interest.

This is not Christianity. In Christianity, God's love for us is so overwhelming and perfect, there is nothing we can do to earn it. You don't go to heaven or hell because of what you DO. It is impossible to do enough to enter the Kingdom of God - God is perfect and we are not. Christ poured out his love for us to the point of death. We are so grateful for that, we naturally try to imitate our Lord (and brother) Christ. Of course we fall short, but we attempt do good in imitation of God.

That may be the focus of some forms of Christianity, but other, more fundamentalist forms, focus on getting saved to make it into heaven

Actually, not being able to earn your way into heaven is the focus of the New Testament. All traditional, orthodox strands of Christianity would adhere to this belief. "Earning your way into heaven" is heresy.

That is one interpretation. Other strands of Christianity do not see it that way. Perhaps that's the reason there are so many denominations. People disagree over something and form a new group of people, ad infinitum.

That's a complex issue. There is a huge difference between Catholic theology and Catholic practice. In Catholic practice, one confesses one's sins to a priest who recommends acts of penance. But in Catholic theology, acts can't help you get to Heaven. Only divine grace can do that. Similarly, Catholic Churches have collection boxes for the souls in Purgatory. But in Catholic theology, there is no Purgatory.

In Catholic Sunday school, there is definitely a purgatory

I know. That's my point. The way that Catholicism is taught to children is very different from Catholic theology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can one be Catholic or Jewish or whatever and still believe in no afterlife?

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a number of Jewish funerals and noticed that there was no discussion of an afterlife.

That's right. Christians keep harping about an afterlife. We Jews don't talk about it. Maybe there is one, maybe not. Christians are always saying that we must act morally because that's how to get to Heaven. If you act immorally, you go to Hell. To a Jew, that makes no sense. Jews believe that one must act morally because it's the right thing to do. If you're acting morally simply because you're afraid that if you don't, you will burn in Hell for eternity, that doesn't make you a moral person. It makes you a person acting out of self interest.

This is not Christianity. In Christianity, God's love for us is so overwhelming and perfect, there is nothing we can do to earn it. You don't go to heaven or hell because of what you DO. It is impossible to do enough to enter the Kingdom of God - God is perfect and we are not. Christ poured out his love for us to the point of death. We are so grateful for that, we naturally try to imitate our Lord (and brother) Christ. Of course we fall short, but we attempt do good in imitation of God.

That may be the focus of some forms of Christianity, but other, more fundamentalist forms, focus on getting saved to make it into heaven

Actually, not being able to earn your way into heaven is the focus of the New Testament. All traditional, orthodox strands of Christianity would adhere to this belief. "Earning your way into heaven" is heresy.

That is one interpretation. Other strands of Christianity do not see it that way. Perhaps that's the reason there are so many denominations. People disagree over something and form a new group of people, ad infinitum.

That's a complex issue. There is a huge difference between Catholic theology and Catholic practice. In Catholic practice, one confesses one's sins to a priest who recommends acts of penance. But in Catholic theology, acts can't help you get to Heaven. Only divine grace can do that. Similarly, Catholic Churches have collection boxes for the souls in Purgatory. But in Catholic theology, there is no Purgatory.

In Catholic Sunday school, there is definitely a purgatory

I know. That's my point. The way that Catholicism is taught to children is very different from Catholic theology.

That's only one of the differences between Catholic theology and Catholic practice. Catholic theology used to include a Purgatory, but not for a long time. Yet children are still taught that there is a Purgatory. Another example is the treatment of Mary Magdelene, who is mentioned more often in the Gospels than most of the apostles. The language of the original Greek makes it clear that Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife. But in the sixth century, Pope Gregory wanted Jesus to be thought of as celibate. He proclaimed that Mary Magdelene was the prostitute mentioned in the Gospel according to Luke, even though it's clear from the text that Mary Magdelene and the prostitute are two different people. This contributed to the split between the Western Church who would accept whatever Pope Gregory said, and the Eastern Church which never believed that Mary Magdelene was a prostitute. Finally, in 1969, the Catholic Church announced that Pope Gregory was wrong and Mary Magdelene was never a prostitute. Nevertheless, even though Catholic theology has changed, Catholic practice has not, and young Catholics are still taught that she was a prostitute.

[Anonymous]

What happens when we die is the cockroaches and bacteria have a feast. You thought cosmic grandfather was going to tap you on the shoulder and welcome you to heaven? Bww ha ha ha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can one be Catholic or Jewish or whatever and still believe in no afterlife?

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a number of Jewish funerals and noticed that there was no discussion of an afterlife.

That's right. Christians keep harping about an afterlife. We Jews don't talk about it. Maybe there is one, maybe not. Christians are always saying that we must act morally because that's how to get to Heaven. If you act immorally, you go to Hell. To a Jew, that makes no sense. Jews believe that one must act morally because it's the right thing to do. If you're acting morally simply because you're afraid that if you don't, you will burn in Hell for eternity, that doesn't make you a moral person. It makes you a person acting out of self interest.

This is not Christianity. In Christianity, God's love for us is so overwhelming and perfect, there is nothing we can do to earn it. You don't go to heaven or hell because of what you DO. It is impossible to do enough to enter the Kingdom of God - God is perfect and we are not. Christ poured out his love for us to the point of death. We are so grateful for that, we naturally try to imitate our Lord (and brother) Christ. Of course we fall short, but we attempt do good in imitation of God.

That may be the focus of some forms of Christianity, but other, more fundamentalist forms, focus on getting saved to make it into heaven

Actually, not being able to earn your way into heaven is the focus of the New Testament. All traditional, orthodox strands of Christianity would adhere to this belief. "Earning your way into heaven" is heresy.

That is one interpretation. Other strands of Christianity do not see it that way. Perhaps that's the reason there are so many denominations. People disagree over something and form a new group of people, ad infinitum.

That's a complex issue. There is a huge difference between Catholic theology and Catholic practice. In Catholic practice, one confesses one's sins to a priest who recommends acts of penance. But in Catholic theology, acts can't help you get to Heaven. Only divine grace can do that. Similarly, Catholic Churches have collection boxes for the souls in Purgatory. But in Catholic theology, there is no Purgatory.

In Catholic Sunday school, there is definitely a purgatory

I know. That's my point. The way that Catholicism is taught to children is very different from Catholic theology.

Catholic children grow up to become Catholic adult (in some cases) who then teach their children about purgatory. What difference does it make what the theology is if the people don't know about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can one be Catholic or Jewish or whatever and still believe in no afterlife?

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a number of Jewish funerals and noticed that there was no discussion of an afterlife.

That's right. Christians keep harping about an afterlife. We Jews don't talk about it. Maybe there is one, maybe not. Christians are always saying that we must act morally because that's how to get to Heaven. If you act immorally, you go to Hell. To a Jew, that makes no sense. Jews believe that one must act morally because it's the right thing to do. If you're acting morally simply because you're afraid that if you don't, you will burn in Hell for eternity, that doesn't make you a moral person. It makes you a person acting out of self interest.

This is not Christianity. In Christianity, God's love for us is so overwhelming and perfect, there is nothing we can do to earn it. You don't go to heaven or hell because of what you DO. It is impossible to do enough to enter the Kingdom of God - God is perfect and we are not. Christ poured out his love for us to the point of death. We are so grateful for that, we naturally try to imitate our Lord (and brother) Christ. Of course we fall short, but we attempt do good in imitation of God.

That may be the focus of some forms of Christianity, but other, more fundamentalist forms, focus on getting saved to make it into heaven

Actually, not being able to earn your way into heaven is the focus of the New Testament. All traditional, orthodox strands of Christianity would adhere to this belief. "Earning your way into heaven" is heresy.

That is one interpretation. Other strands of Christianity do not see it that way. Perhaps that's the reason there are so many denominations. People disagree over something and form a new group of people, ad infinitum.

That's a complex issue. There is a huge difference between Catholic theology and Catholic practice. In Catholic practice, one confesses one's sins to a priest who recommends acts of penance. But in Catholic theology, acts can't help you get to Heaven. Only divine grace can do that. Similarly, Catholic Churches have collection boxes for the souls in Purgatory. But in Catholic theology, there is no Purgatory.

In Catholic Sunday school, there is definitely a purgatory

I know. That's my point. The way that Catholicism is taught to children is very different from Catholic theology.

Catholic children grow up to become Catholic adult (in some cases) who then teach their children about purgatory. What difference does it make what the theology is if the people don't know about it.

That's like asking what difference does it make if Marc Rich paid Clinton for the pardon if no one knows about it.

[Anonymous]

I personally think the physical and spiritual planes are the same. We - in our living states - see one part of the plane, but when we die, we take on a different form.

may sound silly - But that's my belief.

Years ago, in my 20s, a friend's mother had schizophrenia.
At one point, my friend said that her mother made it clear that - with or without the meds - the voices she hears and the people she sees are indeed real.

She was a brilliant woman with multiple degrees.

I think they can connect the physical realm to the spiritual realm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I personally think the physical and spiritual planes are the same. We - in our living states - see one part of the plane, but when we die, we take on a different form.

may sound silly - But that's my belief.

Years ago, in my 20s, a friend's mother had schizophrenia.
At one point, my friend said that her mother made it clear that - with or without the meds - the voices she hears and the people she sees are indeed real.

She was a brilliant woman with multiple degrees.

I think they can connect the physical realm to the spiritual realm.

It doesn't matter that she was brilliant -- she was schizophrenic, which means she was out of touch with reality. Her saying the voice she hears are real does not make them real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think the physical and spiritual planes are the same. We - in our living states - see one part of the plane, but when we die, we take on a different form.

may sound silly - But that's my belief.

Years ago, in my 20s, a friend's mother had schizophrenia.
At one point, my friend said that her mother made it clear that - with or without the meds - the voices she hears and the people she sees are indeed real.

She was a brilliant woman with multiple degrees.

I think they can connect the physical realm to the spiritual realm.

It doesn't matter that she was brilliant -- she was schizophrenic, which means she was out of touch with reality. Her saying the voice she hears are real does not make them real.

my belief

She was brilliant, and she did indeed understand "her" reality versus what you (and others) believe is THE reality.

I think schizophrenics have a gift - not a happy one but a gift nonetheless.