Henry Louis Gates arrested when trying to force open door of his own home

[Anonymous]

While Prof. Gates probably behaved badly, he did so with a greater wealth of knowledge about police brutality than the average person. Anyone remember Amadou Diallo, Abner Louima,Eleanor Bumpers, Maurice White, Jr., Rodney King, Ronnie Holloway, Kathryn Johnston, etc.? Why not blame the small number of rogue "officers" out there who give all law enforcement officers a bad name as opposed to being surprised and dismayed at the average citizen who has either experienced these abuses directly or has heard about them from another source? Again, while Prof. Gates behaved badly, the officer clearly arrested him because he didn't like what the Prof. was saying, not because he was breaking the law. The fact that this case resulted in no injury to anyone does not excuse any police officers misuse of the power given to them by the state. You think the courts are clogged now, what if an arrestable offense included nothing other than saying something about the officer's mother? Apparently neither person kept their cool in this situation, but which person in this situation was being paid to keep their cool, act rationally and adjudicate the matter appropriately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While Prof. Gates probably behaved badly, he did so with a greater wealth of knowledge about police brutality than the average person. Anyone remember Amadou Diallo, Abner Louima,Eleanor Bumpers, Maurice White, Jr., Rodney King, Ronnie Holloway, Kathryn Johnston, etc.? Why not blame the small number of rogue "officers" out there who give all law enforcement officers a bad name as opposed to being surprised and dismayed at the average citizen who has either experienced these abuses directly or has heard about them from another source? Again, while Prof. Gates behaved badly, the officer clearly arrested him because he didn't like what the Prof. was saying, not because he was breaking the law. The fact that this case resulted in no injury to anyone does not excuse any police officers misuse of the power given to them by the state. You think the courts are clogged now, what if an arrestable offense included nothing other than saying something about the officer's mother? Apparently neither person kept their cool in this situation, but which person in this situation was being paid to keep their cool, act rationally and adjudicate the matter appropriately?

Why would we remember them if we have a lesser wealth of knowledge than Gates?

It sound like the police officers in fact did keep their cool. In all seriousness, what is the law on screaming at a police officer during an investigation. Is that or is that not an arrestable offense? Who knows?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just listened to all the tapes and read the most recent coverage. I am one of the early posters who was horrified for Skip Gates.

However, now I take it all back. The officer did absolutely nothing wrong in my opinion.

It sucks to have a police officer come into your house and demand ID, however, when two people called the police because you broke into your own house (with suitcases outside - which looks even worse) then maybe you ought to chill out and have some respect for the police.

Also, race was never mentioned in the 911 call. The woman said she only saw one of the men and that he looked Hispanic.

Lastly, the officer sounded calm and rational and called for backup because Gates was so uncooperative.

Can you post a link to the full tapes?

[Anonymous]

You can find both the 911 call and the police transmissions on Youtube with a simple search query. In neither do you hear Gates (though there is background noise in one). In the police transmissions the police sound exceedingly calm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While Prof. Gates probably behaved badly, he did so with a greater wealth of knowledge about police brutality than the average person. Anyone remember Amadou Diallo, Abner Louima,Eleanor Bumpers, Maurice White, Jr., Rodney King, Ronnie Holloway, Kathryn Johnston, etc.? Why not blame the small number of rogue "officers" out there who give all law enforcement officers a bad name as opposed to being surprised and dismayed at the average citizen who has either experienced these abuses directly or has heard about them from another source? Again, while Prof. Gates behaved badly, the officer clearly arrested him because he didn't like what the Prof. was saying, not because he was breaking the law. The fact that this case resulted in no injury to anyone does not excuse any police officers misuse of the power given to them by the state. You think the courts are clogged now, what if an arrestable offense included nothing other than saying something about the officer's mother? Apparently neither person kept their cool in this situation, but which person in this situation was being paid to keep their cool, act rationally and adjudicate the matter appropriately?

Why would we remember them if we have a lesser wealth of knowledge than Gates?

It sound like the police officers in fact did keep their cool. In all seriousness, what is the law on screaming at a police officer during an investigation. Is that or is that not an arrestable offense? Who knows?

Waiting for a guy to step out on his porch and arresting him because you don't like what he is saying to you from the porch of the house he owns is keeping your cool?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While Prof. Gates probably behaved badly, he did so with a greater wealth of knowledge about police brutality than the average person. Anyone remember Amadou Diallo, Abner Louima,Eleanor Bumpers, Maurice White, Jr., Rodney King, Ronnie Holloway, Kathryn Johnston, etc.? Why not blame the small number of rogue "officers" out there who give all law enforcement officers a bad name as opposed to being surprised and dismayed at the average citizen who has either experienced these abuses directly or has heard about them from another source? Again, while Prof. Gates behaved badly, the officer clearly arrested him because he didn't like what the Prof. was saying, not because he was breaking the law. The fact that this case resulted in no injury to anyone does not excuse any police officers misuse of the power given to them by the state. You think the courts are clogged now, what if an arrestable offense included nothing other than saying something about the officer's mother? Apparently neither person kept their cool in this situation, but which person in this situation was being paid to keep their cool, act rationally and adjudicate the matter appropriately?

Why would we remember them if we have a lesser wealth of knowledge than Gates?

It sound like the police officers in fact did keep their cool. In all seriousness, what is the law on screaming at a police officer during an investigation. Is that or is that not an arrestable offense? Who knows?

Waiting for a guy to step out on his porch and arresting him because you don't like what he is saying to you from the porch of the house he owns is keeping your cool?

Did you hear the tapes? Or read all of today's articles including the one in the NYTimes? I think you're a few days behind the news.

[Anonymous]

I guess I'm just wondering why Gates should be held responsible for his behavior but Crowley should not?

[Anonymous]

In the transmissions, the Officer sounds completely cool-headed. Both agree that Gates was for some reason screaming though you cannot hear it in the tapes/they only seem activated when the officer is speaking directly to a member of his team.

Here is the link to your rights and responsibilities when interacting with police according to NYPD:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/community_affairs/interactingwithpolice.shtml

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While Prof. Gates probably behaved badly, he did so with a greater wealth of knowledge about police brutality than the average person. Anyone remember Amadou Diallo, Abner Louima,Eleanor Bumpers, Maurice White, Jr., Rodney King, Ronnie Holloway, Kathryn Johnston, etc.? Why not blame the small number of rogue "officers" out there who give all law enforcement officers a bad name as opposed to being surprised and dismayed at the average citizen who has either experienced these abuses directly or has heard about them from another source? Again, while Prof. Gates behaved badly, the officer clearly arrested him because he didn't like what the Prof. was saying, not because he was breaking the law. The fact that this case resulted in no injury to anyone does not excuse any police officers misuse of the power given to them by the state. You think the courts are clogged now, what if an arrestable offense included nothing other than saying something about the officer's mother? Apparently neither person kept their cool in this situation, but which person in this situation was being paid to keep their cool, act rationally and adjudicate the matter appropriately?

Why would we remember them if we have a lesser wealth of knowledge than Gates?

It sound like the police officers in fact did keep their cool. In all seriousness, what is the law on screaming at a police officer during an investigation. Is that or is that not an arrestable offense? Who knows?

Waiting for a guy to step out on his porch and arresting him because you don't like what he is saying to you from the porch of the house he owns is keeping your cool?

Did you hear the tapes? Or read all of today's articles including the one in the NYTimes? I think you're a few days behind the news.

Go the TSG and tell me what I didn't understand from the original police report written by the officer under question.

[Anonymous]

To me, you should be able to swing from your chandelier in your own home covered in honey, even in front of the police, and they should not arrest you. You should be able to call the police ugly, and not get arrested. You should be able to tell the police officer that has a lame job, and not get arrested. Once the ID was shown, the police officer should have quickly left the premises. Gates was in a foul mood after traveling, which is not illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the transmissions, the Officer sounds completely cool-headed. Both agree that Gates was for some reason screaming though you cannot hear it in the tapes/they only seem activated when the officer is speaking directly to a member of his team.

Here is the link to your rights and responsibilities when interacting with police according to NYPD:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/community_affairs/interactingwithpolice.shtml

Wonder if Gates can/will sue the police department.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me, you should be able to swing from your chandelier in your own home covered in honey, even in front of the police, and they should not arrest you. You should be able to call the police ugly, and not get arrested. You should be able to tell the police officer that has a lame job, and not get arrested. Once the ID was shown, the police officer should have quickly left the premises. Gates was in a foul mood after traveling, which is not illegal.

Generally speaking, I agree with this. However, when a possible crime has been called in, it seems to me the police have probable cause to conduct an investigation, enter a home, and question the people they find inside. The officer couldn't know if Gates was the homeowner (until proper ID was shown), and also didn't know if someone else was in the house. Perhaps he asked Gates to come out onto the porch because it's safer than being in a house when you don't know who else is inside?

We don't know at what point the ID was shown. We don't know for sure if it was just a Harvard ID (do we?) and if it had the address on it.

I suspect that failure to cooperate with an officer during the investigation of a crime or a SUSPECTED crime (a break in) might actually be cause for arrest. During the investigation of a reported break in is a bit different than the cops just showing up at your house for no reason or because they can hear you swinging from the chandelier.

To a degree I am being devil's advocate here. I am not sure whom to believe about the incident. But I guess since we didn't see it, we can't really judge.

[Anonymous]

If a judge can throw someone in jail for being disrespectful in a court, can't a police officer arrest someone for being disrespectful/disruptive in a chaotic situation in which criminal activity is suspected?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have no neutral viewer providing information, so we are creating scenarios depending on our own backgrounds and biases. Having spent a few years in Cambridge, I'll toss out another possibility: town/gown hostility. Possibly it was more the fact that Gates is a Harvard professor that irked the police than the fact that he is black. I have no evidence to back this, but since we are spinning, I figured I'd join the fun.

I also wondered if it was a blue collar police officer vs white collar elite university professor kind of hostility. I saw a picture and there was a black officer at the scene. I am thinking the neighbor who called police may be moving soon.

Cops responding to a breaking and entering call where potential perps are in a house should not have ended up arrested Gates . I would be happy that neighbors would call if they thought someone was breaking into my house. Gates shouldn't have complained and the cops shouldn't have wasted taxpayers money [their time ] arresting him for being a loud mouth. Both are wrong. it's not like the cops INITIALLY did police holds or cuffing or arrest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a judge can throw someone in jail for being disrespectful in a court, can't a police officer arrest someone for being disrespectful/disruptive in a chaotic situation in which criminal activity is suspected?

I don't see why there should be any comparison between a judge's and a police officer's authority. There's a vast difference in the civil functions of their positions, their general and legal educations, and the processes for being declared morally fit for their roles.

A judge's discretionary powers don't belong to policemen, who basically exist to bring suspects to judges. They're in a strange in-between position as traditionally blue collar workers clean enough to serve as functionaries of law enforcement (hopefully) but menial enough to get their hands dirty. They're socially higher than many of the criminals they deal with, but lower than professors in most interactions. I think these class-conscious shoulder chips have a lot to do with police behavior that pushes the boundaries of their legal authority.

The NYPD site simply instructs citizens to treat officers respectfully, but does not back that up with summaries or evaluations of legal rights. Of course, it would be best if all parties could behave respectfully, but I think free speech protections apply much more than the NYPD site is willing to let on.