Sidwell tuition increase

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we started a few years ago at around 34k- and it's now going to be OVER 40k for next year. Keep this in mind folks as you make your decisions for next year.

Does everyone pay rack rate? Or is it like college where rack rate is only paid by folks who can afford it and the difference between it and actual cost subsidizes other students?

Top schools like Sidwell give a lot of financial aid. It might be something like 25% of the potential gross tuition. So yes, as with colleges, if a private school awarded no financial aid everybody's tuition could be somewhat lower. But financial aid is core to the mission of well-regarded American independent schools (as it is with American private colleges) -- and theoretically maybe to their status as non-profits, too (I don't know enough about tax policy to know if that's accurate but it's something that gets cited when municipalities want to tax colleges).

PP who asked about rack rate back to revisit this.

I was semi-trolling here, pretty sure that not everyone was paying full T. I just wonder a lot about whether the numbers all work. As in does the 40K pay for adequate teacher comp and enough financial aid to make it worth it to all to soak the high rollers. There are many dimensions to get this right and yes, the issues with tax-exempt status are key, the relative generosity of it means highest standards are called for.

If I were a Sidwell parent, I'd hope a trusted party not intimately involvement with its management or governance really dug into the $ numbers. This isn't just to look for things like embezzlement, but to get some idea if the money moved in ways that parents think prudent. And I say this as someone who's been involved in area nonprofits and have found that people in DC (including most of the Sidwell folks I know) aren't always the saviest with money, especially money confounded with high-minded purpose and many stakeholders.

It seems there's some of this talk going with the discussion of the recent purchases. A great sign, as "trust, but verify" makes sense when it comes to education.

You mean someone like an independent Trustee, a reputable auditing firm, or the accreditation agency. I think they have all of that covered, which is not to say that fraud does not happen at institutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we started a few years ago at around 34k- and it's now going to be OVER 40k for next year. Keep this in mind folks as you make your decisions for next year.

Does everyone pay rack rate? Or is it like college where rack rate is only paid by folks who can afford it and the difference between it and actual cost subsidizes other students?

Top schools like Sidwell give a lot of financial aid. It might be something like 25% of the potential gross tuition. So yes, as with colleges, if a private school awarded no financial aid everybody's tuition could be somewhat lower. But financial aid is core to the mission of well-regarded American independent schools (as it is with American private colleges) -- and theoretically maybe to their status as non-profits, too (I don't know enough about tax policy to know if that's accurate but it's something that gets cited when municipalities want to tax colleges).

PP who asked about rack rate back to revisit this.

I was semi-trolling here, pretty sure that not everyone was paying full T. I just wonder a lot about whether the numbers all work. As in does the 40K pay for adequate teacher comp and enough financial aid to make it worth it to all to soak the high rollers. There are many dimensions to get this right and yes, the issues with tax-exempt status are key, the relative generosity of it means highest standards are called for.

If I were a Sidwell parent, I'd hope a trusted party not intimately involvement with its management or governance really dug into the $ numbers. This isn't just to look for things like embezzlement, but to get some idea if the money moved in ways that parents think prudent. And I say this as someone who's been involved in area nonprofits and have found that people in DC (including most of the Sidwell folks I know) aren't always the saviest with money, especially money confounded with high-minded purpose and many stakeholders.

It seems there's some of this talk going with the discussion of the recent purchases. A great sign, as "trust, but verify" makes sense when it comes to education.

You mean someone like an independent Trustee, a reputable auditing firm, or the accreditation agency. I think they have all of that covered, which is not to say that fraud does not happen at institutions.

I'm saying that people like you are a lot less savvy than you imagine you are. That paradigm has holes in it and if you know what you're looking for, finding them isn't so hard. There's both a dearth of skill and a surfeit of social pressure to second guess things at place like this. When I read people complaining about tuition I think it's important to do some serious looking at where it goes and how the organization is run.

And I don't mean to be hostile, but my concerns are borne of experience in dealing with these issues. Good luck to you all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Weird but true:

There are tons of rich people in this area with really smart kids who can afford to pay $40k for several kids at the school.

Yes there are a lot of wealth people in the area. It's pre primary - 12th ...so the kids do not need to be really smart. The really smart kids are add in the 9 th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Weird but true:

There are tons of rich people in this area with really smart kids who can afford to pay $40k for several kids at the school.

Yes there are a lot of wealth people in the area. It's pre primary - 12th ...so the kids do not need to be really smart. The really smart kids are add in the 9 th grade.

That's a little bit too cute. A look at recent graduating classes shows that lifers are extremely well represented among at the top of the class. There is a weeding out process over time and those that got in in k but are not a good fit tend to leave sometime before 9th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Weird but true:

There are tons of rich people in this area with really smart kids who can afford to pay $40k for several kids at the school.

Yes there are a lot of wealth people in the area. It's pre primary - 12th ...so the kids do not need to be really smart. The really smart kids are add in the 9 th grade.

That's a little bit too cute. A look at recent graduating classes shows that lifers are extremely well represented among at the top of the class. There is a weeding out process over time and those that got in in k but are not a good fit tend to leave sometime before 9th.

Some lifers are at the top of the class, but there are others who don't get nudged out before 9th grade because they're nice kids with nice parents who give a lot of money to the school and/or have high-profile jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weird but true:

There are tons of rich people in this area with really smart kids who can afford to pay $40k for several kids at the school.

Yes there are a lot of wealth people in the area. It's pre primary - 12th ...so the kids do not need to be really smart. The really smart kids are add in the 9 th grade.

Not even close to being supported by the facts. Virtually NMSF this year and the prior (it is a pretty large list, by the way and dwarfs any of the other local privates) entered the school at 7th grade or earlier. Yours is a nice story, though, which plays upon popular narratives. It just isn't true.

[Anonymous]

Some lifers are at the top of the class, but there are others who don't get nudged out before 9th grade because they're nice kids with nice parents who give a lot of money to the school and/or have high-profile jobs

I wager you have never been on the SFS campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we started a few years ago at around 34k- and it's now going to be OVER 40k for next year. Keep this in mind folks as you make your decisions for next year.

Does everyone pay rack rate? Or is it like college where rack rate is only paid by folks who can afford it and the difference between it and actual cost subsidizes other students?

Top schools like Sidwell give a lot of financial aid. It might be something like 25% of the potential gross tuition. So yes, as with colleges, if a private school awarded no financial aid everybody's tuition could be somewhat lower. But financial aid is core to the mission of well-regarded American independent schools (as it is with American private colleges) -- and theoretically maybe to their status as non-profits, too (I don't know enough about tax policy to know if that's accurate but it's something that gets cited when municipalities want to tax colleges).

PP who asked about rack rate back to revisit this.

I was semi-trolling here, pretty sure that not everyone was paying full T. I just wonder a lot about whether the numbers all work. As in does the 40K pay for adequate teacher comp and enough financial aid to make it worth it to all to soak the high rollers. There are many dimensions to get this right and yes, the issues with tax-exempt status are key, the relative generosity of it means highest standards are called for.

If I were a Sidwell parent, I'd hope a trusted party not intimately involvement with its management or governance really dug into the $ numbers. This isn't just to look for things like embezzlement, but to get some idea if the money moved in ways that parents think prudent. And I say this as someone who's been involved in area nonprofits and have found that people in DC (including most of the Sidwell folks I know) aren't always the saviest with money, especially money confounded with high-minded purpose and many stakeholders.

It seems there's some of this talk going with the discussion of the recent purchases. A great sign, as "trust, but verify" makes sense when it comes to education.

You mean someone like an independent Trustee, a reputable auditing firm, or the accreditation agency. I think they have all of that covered, which is not to say that fraud does not happen at institutions.

I'm saying that people like you are a lot less savvy than you imagine you are. That paradigm has holes in it and if you know what you're looking for, finding them isn't so hard. There's both a dearth of skill and a surfeit of social pressure to second guess things at place like this. When I read people complaining about tuition I think it's important to do some serious looking at where it goes and how the organization is run.



And I don't mean to be hostile, but my concerns are borne of experience in dealing with these issues. Good luck to you all!

Yes, you, and only you, are. Spa Le of seeing the true story. The rest of us are mindless sheep, following blindly. If only we had your unique gifts. Trust and verify. Gosh, I never would have put those concepts together. Thank you, oh unique savvy one! ????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also kind of frustrating about Sidwell -- some private schools charge lower tuition for the lower grades, in line with the lower costs associated with those years. Not at Sidwell. All students, regardless of grade, are the same tuition. The effect, thus, is that during the lower school years, parents subsidize the upper grades. If your child stays there throughout their education, I suppose that it evens out -- you'll later be subsidized by the younger kids' tuition.

I agree with your point about the lower grades paying a relatively exorbitant tuition. At least in the upper school you receive the benefit of advanced classes and counseling to prepare your student for good colleges and universities.

Tuition for 2016-2017 at a peer k-12 school in expensive Los Angeles.

Tuition and fees for 2016-17

Grades K-5 = $26,400

Grades 6-8 = $30,900

Grades 9-12 = $34,800

Why can't tuition be like this here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also kind of frustrating about Sidwell -- some private schools charge lower tuition for the lower grades, in line with the lower costs associated with those years. Not at Sidwell. All students, regardless of grade, are the same tuition. The effect, thus, is that during the lower school years, parents subsidize the upper grades. If your child stays there throughout their education, I suppose that it evens out -- you'll later be subsidized by the younger kids' tuition.

I agree with your point about the lower grades paying a relatively exorbitant tuition. At least in the upper school you receive the benefit of advanced classes and counseling to prepare your student for good colleges and universities.

Tuition for 2016-2017 at a peer k-12 school in expensive Los Angeles.

Tuition and fees for 2016-17

Grades K-5 = $26,400

Grades 6-8 = $30,900

Grades 9-12 = $34,800

Why can't tuition be like this here?

But NY is comparable to DC. Most compelling explanation is that DC and NY have a lot of people on stipends or ex pat packages which drives up demand and therefore prices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also kind of frustrating about Sidwell -- some private schools charge lower tuition for the lower grades, in line with the lower costs associated with those years. Not at Sidwell. All students, regardless of grade, are the same tuition. The effect, thus, is that during the lower school years, parents subsidize the upper grades. If your child stays there throughout their education, I suppose that it evens out -- you'll later be subsidized by the younger kids' tuition.

I agree with your point about the lower grades paying a relatively exorbitant tuition. At least in the upper school you receive the benefit of advanced classes and counseling to prepare your student for good colleges and universities.

Tuition for 2016-2017 at a peer k-12 school in expensive Los Angeles.

Tuition and fees for 2016-17

Grades K-5 = $26,400

Grades 6-8 = $30,900

Grades 9-12 = $34,800

Why can't tuition be like this here?

But NY is comparable to DC. Most compelling explanation is that DC and NY have a lot of people on stipends or ex pat packages which drives up demand and therefore prices.

Collegiate in NYC is flat tuition of $47,500 from K through 12. Brearly is $46k, going to $48. Some of the New York schools break the sound barrier and cross the $50k threshold next year. It is happening everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also kind of frustrating about Sidwell -- some private schools charge lower tuition for the lower grades, in line with the lower costs associated with those years. Not at Sidwell. All students, regardless of grade, are the same tuition. The effect, thus, is that during the lower school years, parents subsidize the upper grades. If your child stays there throughout their education, I suppose that it evens out -- you'll later be subsidized by the younger kids' tuition.

I agree with your point about the lower grades paying a relatively exorbitant tuition. At least in the upper school you receive the benefit of advanced classes and counseling to prepare your student for good colleges and universities.

Tuition for 2016-2017 at a peer k-12 school in expensive Los Angeles.

Tuition and fees for 2016-17

Grades K-5 = $26,400

Grades 6-8 = $30,900

Grades 9-12 = $34,800

Why can't tuition be like this here?

But NY is comparable to DC. Most compelling explanation is that DC and NY have a lot of people on stipends or ex pat packages which drives up demand and therefore prices.

Collegiate in NYC is flat tuition of $47,500 from K through 12. Brearly is $46k, going to $48. Some of the New York schools break the sound barrier and cross the $50k threshold next year. It is happening everywhere.

Collegiate has appreciably higher overheads.Schools in Los Angeles should have appreciably lower ones. The only real comfort to parents comes from being sure that the money from tuition is being spent properly. Any discussion of tuition, as the primary source of revenue, should be accompanied by a thoughtful discussion of spending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some lifers are at the top of the class, but there are others who don't get nudged out before 9th grade because they're nice kids with nice parents who give a lot of money to the school and/or have high-profile jobs

I wager you have never been on the SFS campus.

I've actually been there a few times, since two of my kids graduated from the school and one is a current student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Weird but true:

There are tons of rich people in this area with really smart kids who can afford to pay $40k for several kids at the school.

Yes there are a lot of wealth people in the area. It's pre primary - 12th ...so the kids do not need to be really smart. The really smart kids are add in the 9 th grade.

That's a little bit too cute. A look at recent graduating classes shows that lifers are extremely well represented among at the top of the class. There is a weeding out process over time and those that got in in k but are not a good fit tend to leave sometime before 9th.

Some lifers are at the top of the class, but there are others who don't get nudged out before 9th grade because they're nice kids with nice parents who give a lot of money to the school and/or have high-profile jobs.

Honest question -- how do people know who is top of the class at SFS? I thought that the Upper School doesn't rank students -- ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Weird but true:

There are tons of rich people in this area with really smart kids who can afford to pay $40k for several kids at the school.

Yes there are a lot of wealth people in the area. It's pre primary - 12th ...so the kids do not need to be really smart. The really smart kids are add in the 9 th grade.

That's a little bit too cute. A look at recent graduating classes shows that lifers are extremely well represented among at the top of the class. There is a weeding out process over time and those that got in in k but are not a good fit tend to leave sometime before 9th.

Some lifers are at the top of the class, but there are others who don't get nudged out before 9th grade because they're nice kids with nice parents who give a lot of money to the school and/or have high-profile jobs.

Honest question -- how do people know who is top of the class at SFS? I thought that the Upper School doesn't rank students -- ?

The kids know -- they talk about grades and they know who's in the accelerated math and science classes. And the kids tell their parents. I once had a parent congratulate me on my kid's grade on a chem test that I hadn't even known about.