Barcroft or Randolph ES Arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP mentioned, some did try in Barcroft when the AH Master Plan was being reconsidered a few years ago. They argued for measurable goals for distribution of affordable housing countywide. Even that was a battle in that CA, and the VOICE advocates turned out in droves to argue AGAINST it. Bizarre place.

Don't forgot MI VOZ QUENTE
The VOICE people created a group to call anyone working to craft a more equitable housing plan, a racist. Good times.
I do feel like more people are willing to share that they are against the current AH agenda. Or maybe I'm just imagining it. Hard to know.
Don't be fooled into thinking it's people in the northern most part of the county pushing this. It's not. There are people along Columbia Pike championing it. They are loud and proud. I don't know what it's gonna take to mobilize younger home owners.
Maybe if they did away with choice schools entirely.

Here's the thing about VOICE- it is pastors in the religious community driving a lot of the agenda. They are good people, with good hearts. The crux of the problem is that Gen Xers and Millenials don't attend church every Sunday like the boomers did (and still do). And so church congregations are largely older now with dwindling youth groups and Sunday School programs. This is happening nationwide. When Clarendon Baptist or Arlington Presbyterian made the decision to turn their building into affordable housing, it was partly driven by the lack of regular attendees and financial contributors to support the church-- and so why not do some good in the world and partner with the developers to put up affordable housing to fill that financial gap? They haven't given any thought to how their actions impact the school population because nobody with kids participates in church anymore so that voice is absent in these decisions.

Why not just make it like that church in Clarendon - that's mixed income. That's all I ask. Don't cram lower SES households in. Even housing on a sliding scale would be better - there are plenty of people who make 80%-120% above the poverty line who can't afford Arlington and would be great assets to the community.

[Anonymous]

Well, based on the fact that gutshall won the primary, those of us who don't want any more cramming of lower income families into certain south Arlington areas are in the small minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the problem. Barcroft gets more affordable housing because its CA leadership is in cahoots with the developers and the ACDC. They want this. They lobbied FOR the form based code that is creating this mess and then won't hear that it's bad for neighborhood schools. Because they are either empty nesters, childless or send their kids to Montessori. Doesn't affect them. There is no way to win that battle in Barcroft.

I'm still trying to understand these (childless and older) people? Are you saying that they directly gain money by having more AH in their own neighborhood, because they have relations with the developers and lobbyists and people in power?
What more do they want?!? I think it's just unheard of that SFH owners are lobbying so hard for AH in their own neighborhood!

Come to think of Carlin Springs! They lobbied so hard (successfully) against a another school- now the word is that they will get group homes instead. And more AH!

What is it with these people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah- it's in Douglas Park too, but to a lesser extent. Whenever someone starts with that crazy talk, I feel like they are invariably from Barcorft. The county is dosing the water over there.
Some crazy lady at the dog park was lamenting how terrible it was that all these young ( white) families with kids were the ones buying houses in her neighborhood. She was from Barcroft- and white!
I was like cool story bro and of course didn't challenge her. I never challenge them.
Maybe that is the problem.
We don't speak up.

Yes, perhaps speak up...
I would have asked her to describe the ideal family she would be thrilled to have move in next to her, and buy that house instead?
Or, would she prefer razing all SFH to the ground, and putting fixed rent apartments there instead?
Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah- it's in Douglas Park too, but to a lesser extent. Whenever someone starts with that crazy talk, I feel like they are invariably from Barcorft. The county is dosing the water over there.
Some crazy lady at the dog park was lamenting how terrible it was that all these young ( white) families with kids were the ones buying houses in her neighborhood. She was from Barcroft- and white!
I was like cool story bro and of course didn't challenge her. I never challenge them.
Maybe that is the problem.
We don't speak up.

Yes, perhaps speak up...
I would have asked her to describe the ideal family she would be thrilled to have move in next to her, and buy that house instead?
Or, would she prefer razing all SFH to the ground, and putting fixed rent apartments there instead?
Seriously?

Well, I think she would like to see more immigrants. That's the jist of it. She specifically spoke about how terrible it was that the condos at the corner of Four mile and Walter Reed were. She was saddened to see the crappy garden apts get renovated and sold as condos.
" where are people supposed to live?"

Meanwhile I was thinking: umm... those condos are where many of my ( very middle class) friends are looking to buy, as it's all they can afford. They are priced out of North Arlington. Where would you like them to go? And then I realized it. She would like them to go to anywhere but here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah- it's in Douglas Park too, but to a lesser extent. Whenever someone starts with that crazy talk, I feel like they are invariably from Barcorft. The county is dosing the water over there.
Some crazy lady at the dog park was lamenting how terrible it was that all these young ( white) families with kids were the ones buying houses in her neighborhood. She was from Barcroft- and white!
I was like cool story bro and of course didn't challenge her. I never challenge them.
Maybe that is the problem.
We don't speak up.

Yes, perhaps speak up...
I would have asked her to describe the ideal family she would be thrilled to have move in next to her, and buy that house instead?
Or, would she prefer razing all SFH to the ground, and putting fixed rent apartments there instead?
Seriously?

This. I've posted on this thread a few times. When I moved to the Pike in 2005, there were some old garden style apartments being torn down and renovated to make room for new condos. I remember walking down Four Mile Run and seeing immigrant families forlornly packing up and moving out. It was sad, especially because some groups had been in the area for years. It was covered in the Post, about how the community was changing. I can see how it would pull on the heart strings, but my thought is that some of the older, mostly white residents fear they are next. Not all of them own their homes - many live in those apartments too. I did a stint in Barcroft while I was saving money, and the number of older white residents who had lived there for 10-20 years, or more was pretty high.

Well, I think she would like to see more immigrants. That's the jist of it. She specifically spoke about how terrible it was that the condos at the corner of Four mile and Walter Reed were. She was saddened to see the crappy garden apts get renovated and sold as condos.
" where are people supposed to live?"

Meanwhile I was thinking: umm... those condos are where many of my ( very middle class) friends are looking to buy, as it's all they can afford. They are priced out of North Arlington. Where would you like them to go? And then I realized it. She would like them to go to anywhere but here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah- it's in Douglas Park too, but to a lesser extent. Whenever someone starts with that crazy talk, I feel like they are invariably from Barcorft. The county is dosing the water over there.
Some crazy lady at the dog park was lamenting how terrible it was that all these young ( white) families with kids were the ones buying houses in her neighborhood. She was from Barcroft- and white!
I was like cool story bro and of course didn't challenge her. I never challenge them.
Maybe that is the problem.
We don't speak up.

Yes, perhaps speak up...
I would have asked her to describe the ideal family she would be thrilled to have move in next to her, and buy that house instead?
Or, would she prefer razing all SFH to the ground, and putting fixed rent apartments there instead?
Seriously?

Well, I think she would like to see more immigrants. That's the jist of it. She specifically spoke about how terrible it was that the condos at the corner of Four mile and Walter Reed were. She was saddened to see the crappy garden apts get renovated and sold as condos.
" where are people supposed to live?"

Meanwhile I was thinking: umm... those condos are where many of my ( very middle class) friends are looking to buy, as it's all they can afford. They are priced out of North Arlington. Where would you like them to go? And then I realized it. She would like them to go to anywhere but here.

This was supposed to follow on...

This. I've posted on this thread a few times. When I moved to the Pike in 2005, there were some old garden style apartments being torn down and renovated to make room for new condos. I remember walking down Four Mile Run and seeing immigrant families forlornly packing up and moving out. It was sad, especially because some groups had been in the area for years. It was covered in the Post, about how the community was changing. I can see how it would pull on the heart strings, but my thought is that some of the older, mostly white residents fear they are next. Not all of them own their homes - many live in those apartments too. I did a stint in Barcroft while I was saving money, and the number of older white residents who had lived there for 10-20 years, or more was pretty high.

[Anonymous]

For what it's worth, I don't think Barcroft residents are "in cahoots" with the affordable housing advocates and developers in the sense that they are financially profiting from it. I think it's just in the sense that they've been bamboozled into drinking the Arlington smart growth KoolAid even though it disadvantages families with children in that neighborhood. The people who actually profit (the developers and the Board of APAH--much overlap there by the way) have convinced many a Barcroft resident and other Pike residents as well that this is the good liberal thing to do. Cram all the poor people into neighborhoods that are FAR AWAY from APAH's Board and the rest of the Arlington elite. Barcroft et al are patsies for those who pull strings in Arlington. Well meaning; not that bright.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For what it's worth, I don't think Barcroft residents are "in cahoots" with the affordable housing advocates and developers in the sense that they are financially profiting from it. I think it's just in the sense that they've been bamboozled into drinking the Arlington smart growth KoolAid even though it disadvantages families with children in that neighborhood. The people who actually profit (the developers and the Board of APAH--much overlap there by the way) have convinced many a Barcroft resident and other Pike residents as well that this is the good liberal thing to do. Cram all the poor people into neighborhoods that are FAR AWAY from APAH's Board and the rest of the Arlington elite. Barcroft et al are patsies for those who pull strings in Arlington. Well meaning; not that bright.

I think it would benefit all of the families if those disadvantaged kids were not crammed into a handful of schools, but more evenly distributed. Either that or the county should create a program so that there's a way to group kids together who need less help, but that sounds way too much like segregation and you would not get the same benefits as having just 20% lower SES kids in a class with more affluent ones.

[Anonymous]

It feels crappy to say no to families who are in need. People who buy in south Arlington tend to be much more liberal ( and not just in name). They don't want to say ENOUGH, so they say, " well, lets integrate it." and " let's have mixed income buildings."
The north side just says no, under no circumstances do we want it, and we'll sue you if you try.
So south Arlignton gets all of it.
We have to learn to be assholes and just say no. We have to accept that we have to be ugly. Being nice and kind wrecks our school demographics.
We have to push for gentrification, which is hard for people accept. They've pushed so much AH into a small area, now we don't have other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It feels crappy to say no to families who are in need. People who buy in south Arlington tend to be much more liberal ( and not just in name). They don't want to say ENOUGH, so they say, " well, lets integrate it." and " let's have mixed income buildings."
The north side just says no, under no circumstances do we want it, and we'll sue you if you try.
So south Arlignton gets all of it.
We have to learn to be assholes and just say no. We have to accept that we have to be ugly. Being nice and kind wrecks our school demographics.
We have to push for gentrification, which is hard for people accept. They've pushed so much AH into a small area, now we don't have other options.

I would really like to see more mixed income buildings. It seems silly to demand that people of some means who might want to live here are excluded while we build tower blocks that concentrate poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP mentioned, some did try in Barcroft when the AH Master Plan was being reconsidered a few years ago. They argued for measurable goals for distribution of affordable housing countywide. Even that was a battle in that CA, and the VOICE advocates turned out in droves to argue AGAINST it. Bizarre place.

Don't forgot MI VOZ QUENTE
The VOICE people created a group to call anyone working to craft a more equitable housing plan, a racist. Good times.
I do feel like more people are willing to share that they are against the current AH agenda. Or maybe I'm just imagining it. Hard to know.
Don't be fooled into thinking it's people in the northern most part of the county pushing this. It's not. There are people along Columbia Pike championing it. They are loud and proud. I don't know what it's gonna take to mobilize younger home owners.
Maybe if they did away with choice schools entirely.

Here's the thing about VOICE- it is pastors in the religious community driving a lot of the agenda. They are good people, with good hearts. The crux of the problem is that Gen Xers and Millenials don't attend church every Sunday like the boomers did (and still do). And so church congregations are largely older now with dwindling youth groups and Sunday School programs. This is happening nationwide. When Clarendon Baptist or Arlington Presbyterian made the decision to turn their building into affordable housing, it was partly driven by the lack of regular attendees and financial contributors to support the church-- and so why not do some good in the world and partner with the developers to put up affordable housing to fill that financial gap? They haven't given any thought to how their actions impact the school population because nobody with kids participates in church anymore so that voice is absent in these decisions.

Why not just make it like that church in Clarendon - that's mixed income. That's all I ask. Don't cram lower SES households in. Even housing on a sliding scale would be better - there are plenty of people who make 80%-120% above the poverty line who can't afford Arlington and would be great assets to the community.

I don't even understand the desire to make a building 100% affordable housing. I think there are multiple studies that show that mixed income buildings are better off for everyone. Segregating folks of lower incomes isn't something we should support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels crappy to say no to families who are in need. People who buy in south Arlington tend to be much more liberal ( and not just in name). They don't want to say ENOUGH, so they say, " well, lets integrate it." and " let's have mixed income buildings."
The north side just says no, under no circumstances do we want it, and we'll sue you if you try.
So south Arlignton gets all of it.
We have to learn to be assholes and just say no. We have to accept that we have to be ugly. Being nice and kind wrecks our school demographics.
We have to push for gentrification, which is hard for people accept. They've pushed so much AH into a small area, now we don't have other options.

I would really like to see more mixed income buildings. It seems silly to demand that people of some means who might want to live here are excluded while we build tower blocks that concentrate poverty.

That is fine up in the areas where there is currently no AH. We have blocks in south Arlington that have multiple buildings that are now, and will always be, 100% low income.
We don't need mixed income. We need market rate. We need to balance the scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels crappy to say no to families who are in need. People who buy in south Arlington tend to be much more liberal ( and not just in name). They don't want to say ENOUGH, so they say, " well, lets integrate it." and " let's have mixed income buildings."
The north side just says no, under no circumstances do we want it, and we'll sue you if you try.
So south Arlignton gets all of it.
We have to learn to be assholes and just say no. We have to accept that we have to be ugly. Being nice and kind wrecks our school demographics.
We have to push for gentrification, which is hard for people accept. They've pushed so much AH into a small area, now we don't have other options.

I would really like to see more mixed income buildings. It seems silly to demand that people of some means who might want to live here are excluded while we build tower blocks that concentrate poverty.

That is fine up in the areas where there is currently no AH. We have blocks in south Arlington that have multiple buildings that are now, and will always be, 100% low income.
We don't need mixed income. We need market rate. We need to balance the scale.

That's what I mean. But our market rate buildings are just now filling up, or so I've heard. We are getting more too. It's the West Pike that really needs it.

[Anonymous]

Mixed income costs the AH developers more so they claim they cannot or won't do it. The financing gets complicated.

Even market rate along the pike is cheap. The new luxury apts that will go up at the Food Star site will be dirt cheap compared to North Arlington. We'll see if the developer can even rent everything out.

No one who can afford a decent apartment in a good neighborhood will live along the west end of the Pike. why should they?