Did you believe Amanda Knox was guilty?

[Anonymous]

she wasn't doing gymnastics - it was yoga stretches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I lived in Italy around the time Knox was held. I know many expats there, many of them living in smaller, regional towns or student cities (so not just in expat enclaves such as Trastevere). Some of my friends have lived there for 20+ years. Based on my personal observations and what I've been told by these expats while living in Italy as a young woman, I can see how certain biases played heavily into Knox being named a suspect in Kercher's murder.

1. There is a strong mistrust of foreigners among the Italian population.
2. Italian culture is rather misogynistic with a strong madonna-whore complex. Foreign women, especially young American and English women studying in Italy, are viewed by the general Italian public as promiscuous.
3. The Italian public has come to expect corruption and scandal (looking at their government, it's not hard to see why). Overall they are much more inclined to buy into scandalous, sensationalist conspiracy theories.

There are many great aspects to Italian culture. But the above observations about Italian culture have been echoed by everyone I know who has spent time there. Look at how the media portrayed an American woman who was killed recently in Florence: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/09/ashley-olsens-family-defend-murdered-artists-character-from-offensive-media
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/10/europe/ashley-olsen-family-letter/
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/02/10/olsen.family.letter.pdf

When you combined the tendency to mistrust foreigners, the bias against foreign women, conflicting attitudes about female sexuality, and the propensity to buy into scandalous theories, it's easy to see how the ridiculous theory of a ritualistic sexual/satanic orgy killing by "Foxy Knoxy" arose. Knox was further indicted by the press when she didn't grieve appropriately.

It's unforgivable that she was interrogated at length without an interpreter or lawyer present. It's unfortunate that she was smoking marijuana the night of the murder and so after 24 hours of heavy interrogation and the police insisting that they knew she had left Sollecito's apartment, she either became worn down, second-guessed herself because she had been high, or falsely conceded that point. The interrogators insisted she must have left her boyfriend's apartment that night based simply on a text she sent to her boss saying "Ci vediamo dopo" (I'll see you later), which in English is an open-ended phrase, but in Italian denotes an intent to meet in a short time frame. She had only been in Italy for 5 weeks and obviously was not fluent in Italian. It's an easy mistake to make and by no means proves she ever left Sollecito's apartment.

Rudy Guede had DNA linking him to the scene and was found guilty. I can't believe they are still pursuing Knox without new evidence and so many mistakes during in the investigation.

This, so much this. My father is Italian, and we have visited often for extended periods. The way American women are viewed and treated is truly astonishing. I was accosted on the street when I was a teen, in front of my parents mind you. An old man pinched my bottom, in a church no less. This all played into her treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the trial transcripts. She was definitely present and heavily involved. Whether she actually cut the victim's throat is unknown. She got off on a technicality, but only after serving time for false accusing her boss (a black man).

So you bought the procecution's story despite the actual evidence. The prosecutor is a charlatan who exploits the fact that there are gullible people like you in the world to push his political aspirations.

She didn't get off on a technicality. The appellate court (which conducts a full review of the case) found that there was no evidence of her guilt. Then the Supreme Court found that the case was without foundation, and strongly criticizing the conduct of the investigators and prosecutors. That's not a technicality--it's the opposite of one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a Cliff notes version of evidence to why she is innocent vs. guilty?

The Wikipedia article reviews the case pretty clearly. She's innocent because there is absolutely no evidence that she was guilty, and someone else (whose DNA was all over the scene) confessed to the crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, the thing that always really upset me with this case was when Amanda accused the bar owner of the murder - he was totally innocent yet was taken in based upon her accusations. Luckily, one of his customers (who was not an Italian) happened to hear about the bar owner being taken in and contacted police to vouch that he was in the bar with him that evening.

Amanda has said all along that the police pressured her to name the bar owner, and she did after a long interrogation (during which she had no interpreter and no attorney). She recanted within hours of naming him. She had sent him a text that said something like "see you later," and the police insisted that meant that she planned to meet up with him later that night.

Initially, her story was that she was at her boyfriend's house, but she said the police refused to accept that and insisted that she was present during Kercher's murder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously yes.

Who does gymnastics in the hallway at a police questioning for such a bloody murder?

Who tries to blame another person?

Who buys bleach coincidentally the day after a murder?

And who turns their cell phone off coincidentally when their roommate is getting bludgeoned to death then turns it back on a few hours later.....???!!

I'm not dumb......

Do you have a citation? I have read about the case and didn't see any of that.

[Anonymous]

Not guilty. No evidence that she was in that bloody room. I wonder who these people who think she is guilty are? conservative, liberal? I'm conservative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously yes.

Who does gymnastics in the hallway at a police questioning for such a bloody murder?

Who tries to blame another person?

Who buys bleach coincidentally the day after a murder?

And who turns their cell phone off coincidentally when their roommate is getting bludgeoned to death then turns it back on a few hours later.....???!!

I'm not dumb......

Do you have a citation? I have read about the case and didn't see any of that.

The citations can be found in tabloid newspapers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not guilty. No evidence that she was in that bloody room. I wonder who these people who think she is guilty are? conservative, liberal? I'm conservative.

Gullible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not guilty. No evidence that she was in that bloody room. I wonder who these people who think she is guilty are? conservative, liberal? I'm conservative.

I agree, she's 100% not guilty. And I'm a liberal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, the thing that always really upset me with this case was when Amanda accused the bar owner of the murder - he was totally innocent yet was taken in based upon her accusations. Luckily, one of his customers (who was not an Italian) happened to hear about the bar owner being taken in and contacted police to vouch that he was in the bar with him that evening.

Amanda has said all along that the police pressured her to name the bar owner, and she did after a long interrogation (during which she had no interpreter and no attorney). She recanted within hours of naming him. She had sent him a text that said something like "see you later," and the police insisted that meant that she planned to meet up with him later that night.

Initially, her story was that she was at her boyfriend's house, but she said the police refused to accept that and insisted that she was present during Kercher's murder.

One thing I do not get, is didn't her boyfriend say that she was not at his house? Also, the whole thing re the staged break in seemed odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, the thing that always really upset me with this case was when Amanda accused the bar owner of the murder - he was totally innocent yet was taken in based upon her accusations. Luckily, one of his customers (who was not an Italian) happened to hear about the bar owner being taken in and contacted police to vouch that he was in the bar with him that evening.

Amanda has said all along that the police pressured her to name the bar owner, and she did after a long interrogation (during which she had no interpreter and no attorney). She recanted within hours of naming him. She had sent him a text that said something like "see you later," and the police insisted that meant that she planned to meet up with him later that night.

Initially, her story was that she was at her boyfriend's house, but she said the police refused to accept that and insisted that she was present during Kercher's murder.

One thing I do not get, is didn't her boyfriend say that she was not at his house? Also, the whole thing re the staged break in seemed odd.

I don't think so. He also says that he was pressured to implicate her in the murder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, the thing that always really upset me with this case was when Amanda accused the bar owner of the murder - he was totally innocent yet was taken in based upon her accusations. Luckily, one of his customers (who was not an Italian) happened to hear about the bar owner being taken in and contacted police to vouch that he was in the bar with him that evening.

Amanda has said all along that the police pressured her to name the bar owner, and she did after a long interrogation (during which she had no interpreter and no attorney). She recanted within hours of naming him. She had sent him a text that said something like "see you later," and the police insisted that meant that she planned to meet up with him later that night.

Initially, her story was that she was at her boyfriend's house, but she said the police refused to accept that and insisted that she was present during Kercher's murder.

One thing I do not get, is didn't her boyfriend say that she was not at his house? Also, the whole thing re the staged break in seemed odd.

He was undergoing the same interrogation techniques that she was. He insisted that she spent the night with him, but broke down after days of being accused of lying. The police were telling him that Amanda had turned on him the same way they told her that he had turned on her. I think he basically eventually acknowledged the he couldn't swear that she didn't leave while he was asleep.

The break in wasn't staged. The procecution claimed that no one could climb up to that window from the outside but multiple people have easily made that climb since- you can find videos. All of the "evidence" they had of a staged break in has been debunked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived in Italy around the time Knox was held. I know many expats there, many of them living in smaller, regional towns or student cities (so not just in expat enclaves such as Trastevere). Some of my friends have lived there for 20+ years. Based on my personal observations and what I've been told by these expats while living in Italy as a young woman, I can see how certain biases played heavily into Knox being named a suspect in Kercher's murder.

1. There is a strong mistrust of foreigners among the Italian population.
2. Italian culture is rather misogynistic with a strong madonna-whore complex. Foreign women, especially young American and English women studying in Italy, are viewed by the general Italian public as promiscuous.
3. The Italian public has come to expect corruption and scandal (looking at their government, it's not hard to see why). Overall they are much more inclined to buy into scandalous, sensationalist conspiracy theories.

There are many great aspects to Italian culture. But the above observations about Italian culture have been echoed by everyone I know who has spent time there. Look at how the media portrayed an American woman who was killed recently in Florence: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/09/ashley-olsens-family-defend-murdered-artists-character-from-offensive-media
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/10/europe/ashley-olsen-family-letter/
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/02/10/olsen.family.letter.pdf

When you combined the tendency to mistrust foreigners, the bias against foreign women, conflicting attitudes about female sexuality, and the propensity to buy into scandalous theories, it's easy to see how the ridiculous theory of a ritualistic sexual/satanic orgy killing by "Foxy Knoxy" arose. Knox was further indicted by the press when she didn't grieve appropriately.

It's unforgivable that she was interrogated at length without an interpreter or lawyer present. It's unfortunate that she was smoking marijuana the night of the murder and so after 24 hours of heavy interrogation and the police insisting that they knew she had left Sollecito's apartment, she either became worn down, second-guessed herself because she had been high, or falsely conceded that point. The interrogators insisted she must have left her boyfriend's apartment that night based simply on a text she sent to her boss saying "Ci vediamo dopo" (I'll see you later), which in English is an open-ended phrase, but in Italian denotes an intent to meet in a short time frame. She had only been in Italy for 5 weeks and obviously was not fluent in Italian. It's an easy mistake to make and by no means proves she ever left Sollecito's apartment.

Rudy Guede had DNA linking him to the scene and was found guilty. I can't believe they are still pursuing Knox without new evidence and so many mistakes during in the investigation.

This, so much this. My father is Italian, and we have visited often for extended periods. The way American women are viewed and treated is truly astonishing. I was accosted on the street when I was a teen, in front of my parents mind you. An old man pinched my bottom, in a church no less. This all played into her treatment.

God so much of the above really nails it. Let this be a lesson when your kids are studying abroad. Her parents should have immediately gotten her the fuck out of the country, or should have gotten her to the embassy. I read somewhere that all of her classmates parents got them out of Italy within a day or two. Also, having spent quite a bit of time in Italy I would add that not only do they have some horrible attitudes toward foreign women, but they are some racist mother fuckers to boot.

[Anonymous]

Also what's the one book called, The Fatal Price of Beauty or something?