NYTimes story - At a Success Academy Charter School, Singling Out Pupils Who Have ‘Got to Go’

[Anonymous]

So, in summary, no - the school didn't actually violate FERPA laws, and the parties involved were trying to smear the school with lies while covering up a string of violent assaults.

Lovely.

Well, there's another anti-charter hit piece that backfired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, in summary, no - the school didn't actually violate FERPA laws, and the parties involved were trying to smear the school with lies while covering up a string of violent assaults.

Lovely.

Well, there's another anti-charter hit piece that backfired.

Don't be too hasty in deciding this.

http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/2015/10/ferpa-complaint-from-fatima-geidi-to.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FEJcmuc+%28NYC+Public+School+Parents%29
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/10/success_academies_eva_moskowitz_published_a_student_s_disciplinary_record.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think Moskovitz violated FERPA. Per Dept of Ed http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/students.html

"a school may non-consensually disclose personally identifiable information from education records:

...to any third party the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense if the student who is the alleged perpetrator is found to have violated the school's rules or policies. The disclosure of the final results only includes: the name of the alleged perpetrator, the violation committed, and any sanction imposed against the alleged perpetrator. The disclosure must not include the name of any other student, including a victim or witness, without the written consent of that other student."

Is this applicable here? Did the 10 year old commit a crime? Usually a "crime" is associated with the police being involved, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think Moskovitz violated FERPA. Per Dept of Ed http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/students.html

"a school may non-consensually disclose personally identifiable information from education records:

...to any third party the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense if the student who is the alleged perpetrator is found to have violated the school's rules or policies. The disclosure of the final results only includes: the name of the alleged perpetrator, the violation committed, and any sanction imposed against the alleged perpetrator. The disclosure must not include the name of any other student, including a victim or witness, without the written consent of that other student."

Is this applicable here? Did the 10 year old commit a crime? Usually a "crime" is associated with the police being involved, etc.

How would it NOT be a crime?

Multiple instances of assault. Assault is generally a felony in most jurisdictions and I'm pretty certain also a violation of school rules and policies.

And the fact that there was a disciplinary proceeding due to the assaults, resulting in the kid being booted from the school pretty much seals the rest of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, in summary, no - the school didn't actually violate FERPA laws, and the parties involved were trying to smear the school with lies while covering up a string of violent assaults.

Lovely.

Well, there's another anti-charter hit piece that backfired.

Don't be too hasty in deciding this.

http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/2015/10/ferpa-complaint-from-fatima-geidi-to.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FEJcmuc+%28NYC+Public+School+Parents%29
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/10/success_academies_eva_moskowitz_published_a_student_s_disciplinary_record.html

Seems to me the Department of Ed already decided it's not a violation. Here's their guidance:

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/students.html

"a school may non-consensually disclose personally identifiable information from education records:

...to any third party the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense if the student who is the alleged perpetrator is found to have violated the school's rules or policies. The disclosure of the final results only includes: the name of the alleged perpetrator, the violation committed, and any sanction imposed against the alleged perpetrator. The disclosure must not include the name of any other student, including a victim or witness, without the written consent of that other student."

[Anonymous]

Why do the defenders here think it's ok for students to violently attack and endanger teachers and classmates?

You really hate charters that much that you are willing to look the other way as a student gets violently slammed into a wall and gets threats to have his head kicked in? Or a teacher being beaten and strangled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do the defenders here think it's ok for students to violently attack and endanger teachers and classmates?
You really hate charters that much that you are willing to look the other way as a student gets violently slammed into a wall and gets threats to have his head kicked in? Or a teacher being beaten and strangled?

Nobody has said this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, in summary, no - the school didn't actually violate FERPA laws, and the parties involved were trying to smear the school with lies while covering up a string of violent assaults.

Lovely.

Well, there's another anti-charter hit piece that backfired.

Don't be too hasty in deciding this.

http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/2015/10/ferpa-complaint-from-fatima-geidi-to.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FEJcmuc+%28NYC+Public+School+Parents%29
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/10/success_academies_eva_moskowitz_published_a_student_s_disciplinary_record.html

Seems to me the Department of Ed already decided it's not a violation. Here's their guidance:

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/students.html

"a school may non-consensually disclose personally identifiable information from education records:

...to any third party the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense if the student who is the alleged perpetrator is found to have violated the school's rules or policies. The disclosure of the final results only includes: the name of the alleged perpetrator, the violation committed, and any sanction imposed against the alleged perpetrator. The disclosure must not include the name of any other student, including a victim or witness, without the written consent of that other student."

No, the Department of Education has not decided anything. You have quoted their guidance. The question is whether that guidance applies in this particular case. The Department of Education has not answered that question.

I personally do not see why it would apply, because the information Eva Moskowitz released was not the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense -- in fact, I don't think that there was any such disciplinary proceeding, was there? But I am not a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, in summary, no - the school didn't actually violate FERPA laws, and the parties involved were trying to smear the school with lies while covering up a string of violent assaults.

Lovely.

Well, there's another anti-charter hit piece that backfired.

Don't be too hasty in deciding this.

http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/2015/10/ferpa-complaint-from-fatima-geidi-to.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FEJcmuc+%28NYC+Public+School+Parents%29
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/10/success_academies_eva_moskowitz_published_a_student_s_disciplinary_record.html

Seems to me the Department of Ed already decided it's not a violation. Here's their guidance:

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/students.html

"a school may non-consensually disclose personally identifiable information from education records:

...to any third party the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense if the student who is the alleged perpetrator is found to have violated the school's rules or policies. The disclosure of the final results only includes: the name of the alleged perpetrator, the violation committed, and any sanction imposed against the alleged perpetrator. The disclosure must not include the name of any other student, including a victim or witness, without the written consent of that other student."

No, the Department of Education has not decided anything. You have quoted their guidance. The question is whether that guidance applies in this particular case. The Department of Education has not answered that question.

I personally do not see why it would apply, because the information Eva Moskowitz released was not the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense -- in fact, I don't think that there was any such disciplinary proceeding, was there? But I am not a lawyer.

Hitting someone is assault, and assault is a crime and is a violation of school policies. The disciplinary proceeding was kicking them out of school.

Is that really so hard to understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, the Department of Education has not decided anything. You have quoted their guidance. The question is whether that guidance applies in this particular case. The Department of Education has not answered that question.

I personally do not see why it would apply, because the information Eva Moskowitz released was not the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense -- in fact, I don't think that there was any such disciplinary proceeding, was there? But I am not a lawyer.

Hitting someone is assault, and assault is a crime and is a violation of school policies. The disciplinary proceeding was kicking them out of school.

Is that really so hard to understand?

I think you're missing a lot here, namely the actual processes involved. Getting kicked out of school is not a disciplinary proceeding, although it might be the result of a disciplinary proceeding. For there to be a disciplinary proceeding, there actually has to be a disciplinary proceeding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, the Department of Education has not decided anything. You have quoted their guidance. The question is whether that guidance applies in this particular case. The Department of Education has not answered that question.

I personally do not see why it would apply, because the information Eva Moskowitz released was not the final results of a disciplinary proceeding related to a crime of violence or non-forcible sex offense -- in fact, I don't think that there was any such disciplinary proceeding, was there? But I am not a lawyer.

Hitting someone is assault, and assault is a crime and is a violation of school policies. The disciplinary proceeding was kicking them out of school.

Is that really so hard to understand?

I think you're missing a lot here, namely the actual processes involved. Getting kicked out of school is not a disciplinary proceeding, although it might be the result of a disciplinary proceeding. For there to be a disciplinary proceeding, there actually has to be a disciplinary proceeding.

You already answered your own question. Schools don't kick kids out of school for no reason.

And what did you think "disciplinary proceeding" meant? A hearing before a judge or some independent hearing body with attorneys? That's not how it works.

[Anonymous]

You know what? You aren't the one who decides if Eva Moskowitz violated FERPA, and neither am I. There are people in the legal profession who think she did, but they aren't the ones who decide either. Eva Moskowitz presumably thinks she didn't, but she also isn't the one who decides. Right now, here are the facts:

1. There are some people who think she violated FERPA.
2. There are some people who think she didn't violate FERPA.
3. There is a FERPA complaint against her.
4. The Department of Education has not yet acted on the complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You already answered your own question. Schools don't kick kids out of school for no reason.

And what did you think "disciplinary proceeding" meant? A hearing before a judge or some independent hearing body with attorneys? That's not how it works.

A disciplinary proceeding is actually a thing. If the school principal decides, "This student is violent, and I'm kicking them out of school." that's not a disciplinary proceeding. Here is the policy for disciplinary proceedings in MCPS: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/policy/pdf/jgarb.pdf

[Anonymous]

I could be wrong but I believe disciplinary proceedings are typically is handled at the LEA/district level. So it may well be true that an individual MCPS principal cannot make that decision, and that it has to be made at a district level but in the case of a charter, the charter IS the LEA and IS the district, and therefore the head of school may well have that authority, to where that IS the disciplinary proceeding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I could be wrong but I believe disciplinary proceedings are typically is handled at the LEA/district level. So it may well be true that an individual MCPS principal cannot make that decision, and that it has to be made at a district level but in the case of a charter, the charter IS the LEA and IS the district, and therefore the head of school may well have that authority, to where that IS the disciplinary proceeding.

If so, I think that's a problem, because any school funded by public money should afford its students due process. Or, at the very least, it's another way that public charter schools are just not comparable to regular public schools, because they have much more freedom to get rid of students they don't want.