St. Albans School - how big a deal?

[Anonymous]

I am one of the skewed (or if I read these comments from a West Coast perspective, "screwed"). I also hire people. In this town and for almost every job here, having connections is a competitive advantage. Shorthand for connections on a resume in DC is an affiliation with an institution. Maybe it is a DC peculiarity, but a young person (under 30), who lists a top DC high school on his/her resume will not be penalized by most employers. In fact, it will be perceived as a positive. Outside DC, it may not be a good strategy. I have seen this play out for over 25 years.

That goes a long ways toward explaining why most DC prep family kids return to the area after college. Any young adult with a strong college academic record, some internships or other accomplishments who has the moxie to further rely on a prep school reference is a desperate reach to even get to an interview because the guy would look like a cad after a resume read. I know it would be received with some giggles and trashed outside a 50 mile radius. Also consider that in or around every major city there are the local special elite private schools. Horace Mann among dozens of others in NY, Harvard Westlake or Loyola in LA among others, University High in San Francisco among others, BC Prep among others in Boston, etc.. I little humility dispensation here...STA does not stand out versus those, and that isn't a trash comment on STA. Maybe STA grads flock back here because this bubble mentality mets them unemployable elsewhere unless they learned to drop this overt buy my elitism act in 4 years of college. There are decent paying law or lobby careers here for those who can handle 35 years of mind numbing boredom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the point of all of this that an applicant should consider the employer's culture and make the choice accordingly? DC isn't Menlo Park, and Menlo Park isn't DC. Just be strategic, know your audience, and take that into account.
And to the Google poster, I know many very happy people working at Google in California as well as a few here in DC. There are, though, good reasons people may not want to work in Google's dc shop given other options. It's certainly not because the applicants aren't innovative or aren't risk takers, just that they don't think the DC office work opportunity is worth the risk. Also, the few senior people I know at Google's dc office have all of their kids in private school, so not surprisingly there seems to be some difference of opinion even among those in Blessed Google's lobbying shop.

I am another west coast poster, the one who attended a highly-regarded west coast school, and whose classmates never use the school as a resume line. This is the case even when applying in the west coast region where its mention would certainly open doors, as many of the pertinent industry's most influential people currently have, or have had, connections to that school.

The difference might be that Washington, DC is essentially a small town compared to the other areas of this country where the influence of these peer schools matter. It is a bit like residing in a small southern town, where the place one attended high school still matters. In New York or San Francisco it is considered more a peculiar "affectation" to cling to one's high school on a resume, even a highly elite private school, when those cities are so large, with so many people coming from well-regarded private and public high schools from across the region and around the country. The west coast, in particular, also values and embraces an egalitarian ethos.

Exactly, so, when in Rome . . . .

Except I hire here, in DC, and I continue to maintain that listing high school on the resume here, at least for professional jobs, is not a good idea. From reading this thread, it seems the only ones who disagree are those who themselves attended elite private schools. Perhaps their reality is a little skewed? They don't hand out humility and common sense with fancy degrees, unfortunately.

I am one of the skewed (or if I read these comments from a West Coast perspective, "screwed"). I also hire people. In this town and for almost every job here, having connections is a competitive advantage. Shorthand for connections on a resume in DC is an affiliation with an institution. Maybe it is a DC peculiarity, but a young person (under 30), who lists a top DC high school on his/her resume will not be penalized by most employers. In fact, it will be perceived as a positive. Outside DC, it may not be a good strategy. I have seen this play out for over 25 years.

There are other DC employers on this very thread who are saying the exact opposite as you. How can you know what "most employers" in DC think? You can only know about your own experience. Unless, of course, you're skewed into thinking that your elite high school education allows you to speak with authority on what "most" people think.

Point proven.

[Anonymous]

If we set aside connections for a moment, can anyone tell me what I gain by hiring a STA alum, assuming all other things are equal?

So, let's say I have two applications in front of me. Both attended well-regarded graduate programs in public policy. Both have 3 years of experience living overseas.

Is there any reason to choose the STA alum? Basically, is there any reason to assume that someone who got into St. Alban's did so because they are de facto a cut above? Is it a meritocracy?

[Anonymous]

I would note as well that the first people to go through resumes in many organizations are middle class women of color, as they dominate HR departments in any organization where I've ever worked.

I would be very cautious about assuming that's a demographic that will be impressed by a $40,000 a year, 75% white, high school.

[Anonymous]

I'd hardly call STA or any of the privates in the area a meritocracy. So yeah no one past senior of high school will be impressed.

[Anonymous]

Here's the thing: most applicants who list their elite private high school on their resumes are doing it precisely hoping that someone with a connection to the school will see it and move it to the top of the pile. And employers know it. And some don't like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we set aside connections for a moment, can anyone tell me what I gain by hiring a STA alum, assuming all other things are equal?

So, let's say I have two applications in front of me. Both attended well-regarded graduate programs in public policy. Both have 3 years of experience living overseas.

Is there any reason to choose the STA alum? Basically, is there any reason to assume that someone who got into St. Alban's did so because they are de facto a cut above? Is it a meritocracy?

You may or may not get connections, but you are perhaps more likely to hire someone with family and roots in dc, who knows dc, and who would be more likely to stay in dc. If your business is such that you invest a lot in training and integration the first few years, in hopes that the best employees will stay long term, this can be very valuable and may tip the scales all else being equal. I went to a relatively unknown local high school and listed it for my first job out of law school (well, for the summer job at a firm I then went to after clerking). Multiple interviewers asked me about the school, whether we knew people in common, etc., and I received offers at all my top choice firms (though I do t think whether I listed my high school had much to do with it). Sure, some people may put it to imply they have connection useful to an employer, which does seem a bit much. I just put it to emphasize that I was coming home to dc and planned to stay. My parents had since moved so I couldn't use their old address, and an adult using their parents' house as an address has it's own issues in perception I would guess.

I'm guessing different businesses work differently. At my firm, no way would HR have a cut in hiring/ranking attorney applicants. And, we care if people are dedicated to DC because aren't a as added with offices everywhere.

If I were applying to Google, as others have mentioned, I'd take a different perspective. But I wasn't, so I didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we set aside connections for a moment, can anyone tell me what I gain by hiring a STA alum, assuming all other things are equal?

So, let's say I have two applications in front of me. Both attended well-regarded graduate programs in public policy. Both have 3 years of experience living overseas.

Is there any reason to choose the STA alum? Basically, is there any reason to assume that someone who got into St. Alban's did so because they are de facto a cut above? Is it a meritocracy?

I would say those two applicants are one and the same walking into the room, and it then comes down to interview, references, etc. For some intangible reasons you may like one over the other, and those intangibles could be a network of college, prep, other social family, etc. connections. That's hard to quantify, but in DC may play well for STA considering the flock are fond of the familiar in some DC firms or companies. I am of a belief you rest on your highest academic credentials (your academic record in college and grad school if applicable) and most heavily on what you did experience wise if you are 5+ years removed from college. If a 28-30 year old is still pining for notice he went to STA, you'd pretty much have to figure he's an under-performer for not having more recent and more notable credentials or accomplishments. Just my opinion. If the one hypothetical kid above made known to you he's an STA grad, aside from some side chat if you go there it is of no positive or negative moment to me. If he put it on his resume...well, he'd not be getting the interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we set aside connections for a moment, can anyone tell me what I gain by hiring a STA alum, assuming all other things are equal?

So, let's say I have two applications in front of me. Both attended well-regarded graduate programs in public policy. Both have 3 years of experience living overseas.

Is there any reason to choose the STA alum? Basically, is there any reason to assume that someone who got into St. Alban's did so because they are de facto a cut above? Is it a meritocracy?

You may or may not get connections, but you are perhaps more likely to hire someone with family and roots in dc, who knows dc, and who would be more likely to stay in dc. If your business is such that you invest a lot in training and integration the first few years, in hopes that the best employees will stay long term, this can be very valuable and may tip the scales all else being equal. I went to a relatively unknown local high school and listed it for my first job out of law school (well, for the summer job at a firm I then went to after clerking). Multiple interviewers asked me about the school, whether we knew people in common, etc., and I received offers at all my top choice firms (though I do t think whether I listed my high school had much to do with it). Sure, some people may put it to imply they have connection useful to an employer, which does seem a bit much. I just put it to emphasize that I was coming home to dc and planned to stay. My parents had since moved so I couldn't use their old address, and an adult using their parents' house as an address has it's own issues in perception I would guess.

I'm guessing different businesses work differently. At my firm, no way would HR have a cut in hiring/ranking attorney applicants. And, we care if people are dedicated to DC because aren't a as added with offices everywhere.

If I were applying to Google, as others have mentioned, I'd take a different perspective. But I wasn't, so I didn't.

You're right -- it didn't. It merely gave the interviewers something to talk about. And you listed a "relatively unknown local high school," not St Albans, so interviewers were less likely to be turned off.

Your anecdote doesn't add much to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we set aside connections for a moment, can anyone tell me what I gain by hiring a STA alum, assuming all other things are equal?

So, let's say I have two applications in front of me. Both attended well-regarded graduate programs in public policy. Both have 3 years of experience living overseas.

Is there any reason to choose the STA alum? Basically, is there any reason to assume that someone who got into St. Alban's did so because they are de facto a cut above? Is it a meritocracy?

You may or may not get connections, but you are perhaps more likely to hire someone with family and roots in dc, who knows dc, and who would be more likely to stay in dc. If your business is such that you invest a lot in training and integration the first few years, in hopes that the best employees will stay long term, this can be very valuable and may tip the scales all else being equal. I went to a relatively unknown local high school and listed it for my first job out of law school (well, for the summer job at a firm I then went to after clerking). Multiple interviewers asked me about the school, whether we knew people in common, etc., and I received offers at all my top choice firms (though I do t think whether I listed my high school had much to do with it). Sure, some people may put it to imply they have connection useful to an employer, which does seem a bit much. I just put it to emphasize that I was coming home to dc and planned to stay. My parents had since moved so I couldn't use their old address, and an adult using their parents' house as an address has it's own issues in perception I would guess.

I'm guessing different businesses work differently. At my firm, no way would HR have a cut in hiring/ranking attorney applicants. And, we care if people are dedicated to DC because aren't a as added with offices everywhere.

If I were applying to Google, as others have mentioned, I'd take a different perspective. But I wasn't, so I didn't.

You're right -- it didn't. It merely gave the interviewers something to talk about. And you listed a "relatively unknown local high school," not St Albans, so interviewers were less likely to be turned off.

Your anecdote doesn't add much to the discussion.

I'm so sorry you are unable to extrapolate. Perhaps STA grads may be in the same situation I was, and also wanting to emphasize local ties. After three years work experience inured in the hypo, it seems late to include any school. I just think including you local high school can be helpful in getting your first professional job in your home town, whether your school is well known or not. I'm so sorry for eating you time sharing my "anecdote " while you are sharing your omniscient wisdom. For clarity, I'm one if the earlier posters who has also been doing associate hiring at a high-regarded law firm since the 1990s. Because I was addressing why people may include local schools, I examined my own thinking. Is that clear enough for you?

[Anonymous]

PP here. This thread reminds me of the complaints some people sim about Harvard students and alums. If you say you went to Harvard, you're a snob bragging, but if you say you went to school on Massachusetts, you are insufferable in your false modesty. Here, if you say you went to STA, it is presumptively because you want to be deemed to have elite status, but it's ok to include lesser known schools for valid, practical reasons. Because nobody at STA has valid, practical reasons because, well, they are a ill-willed, privileged children who never had to work for a damn thing. Or something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we set aside connections for a moment, can anyone tell me what I gain by hiring a STA alum, assuming all other things are equal?

So, let's say I have two applications in front of me. Both attended well-regarded graduate programs in public policy. Both have 3 years of experience living overseas.

Is there any reason to choose the STA alum? Basically, is there any reason to assume that someone who got into St. Alban's did so because they are de facto a cut above? Is it a meritocracy?

You may or may not get connections, but you are perhaps more likely to hire someone with family and roots in dc, who knows dc, and who would be more likely to stay in dc. If your business is such that you invest a lot in training and integration the first few years, in hopes that the best employees will stay long term, this can be very valuable and may tip the scales all else being equal. I went to a relatively unknown local high school and listed it for my first job out of law school (well, for the summer job at a firm I then went to after clerking). Multiple interviewers asked me about the school, whether we knew people in common, etc., and I received offers at all my top choice firms (though I do t think whether I listed my high school had much to do with it). Sure, some people may put it to imply they have connection useful to an employer, which does seem a bit much. I just put it to emphasize that I was coming home to dc and planned to stay. My parents had since moved so I couldn't use their old address, and an adult using their parents' house as an address has it's own issues in perception I would guess.

I'm guessing different businesses work differently. At my firm, no way would HR have a cut in hiring/ranking attorney applicants. And, we care if people are dedicated to DC because aren't a as added with offices everywhere.

If I were applying to Google, as others have mentioned, I'd take a different perspective. But I wasn't, so I didn't.

You're right -- it didn't. It merely gave the interviewers something to talk about. And you listed a "relatively unknown local high school," not St Albans, so interviewers were less likely to be turned off.

Your anecdote doesn't add much to the discussion.

I'm so sorry you are unable to extrapolate. Perhaps STA grads may be in the same situation I was, and also wanting to emphasize local ties. After three years work experience inured in the hypo, it seems late to include any school. I just think including you local high school can be helpful in getting your first professional job in your home town, whether your school is well known or not. I'm so sorry for eating you time sharing my "anecdote " while you are sharing your omniscient wisdom. For clarity, I'm one if the earlier posters who has also been doing associate hiring at a high-regarded law firm since the 1990s. Because I was addressing why people may include local schools, I examined my own thinking. Is that clear enough for you?

This is not a thread on whether to list one's local high school on a resume. It's a thread on whether listing an elite prep school on your resume is helpful or hurtful. So, you're right, I am unable to extrapolate, because it can't be done.

Oh, and I, too, am one of the former posters with many years of hiring experience at a top DC law firm -- meaning that you can't even speak for most of your own industry, yet again "most employers" in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. This thread reminds me of the complaints some people sim about Harvard students and alums. If you say you went to Harvard, you're a snob bragging, but if you say you went to school on Massachusetts, you are insufferable in your false modesty. Here, if you say you went to STA, it is presumptively because you want to be deemed to have elite status, but it's ok to include lesser known schools for valid, practical reasons. Because nobody at STA has valid, practical reasons because, well, they are a ill-willed, privileged children who never had to work for a damn thing. Or something like that.

Not everyone who goes to STA (or Sidwell or NCS, etc.) is elitist, but there cannot be a serious argument that STA and its peers are not elite schools. People come to the table with bias, which is abundantly clear from some of the diatribes on this subject. I do not think it is even close to a venial sin in this town for a young person to list his/her attendance at a top tier high school. In fact, based upon discussions with other people who are in the hiring process in DC, there would be a serious question why such information would not be listed to show connection to the community and the possibility of valuable contacts. Call that elitism or the "good ol' boy" system, if you will. That system is not going away any time soon. If one wants the Google/Menlo Park world, then this is probably not a relevant discussion. So, those who want to use Google as an exemplar should understand the limitations of the argument. Certainly, if a young person wanted to impress in NYC, there would be a concern about listing the STA/NCS/Sidwell experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the skewed (or if I read these comments from a West Coast perspective, "screwed"). I also hire people. In this town and for almost every job here, having connections is a competitive advantage. Shorthand for connections on a resume in DC is an affiliation with an institution. Maybe it is a DC peculiarity, but a young person (under 30), who lists a top DC high school on his/her resume will not be penalized by most employers. In fact, it will be perceived as a positive. Outside DC, it may not be a good strategy. I have seen this play out for over 25 years.

That goes a long ways toward explaining why most DC prep family kids return to the area after college. Any young adult with a strong college academic record, some internships or other accomplishments who has the moxie to further rely on a prep school reference is a desperate reach to even get to an interview because the guy would look like a cad after a resume read. I know it would be received with some giggles and trashed outside a 50 mile radius. Also consider that in or around every major city there are the local special elite private schools. Horace Mann among dozens of others in NY, Harvard Westlake or Loyola in LA among others, University High in San Francisco among others, BC Prep among others in Boston, etc.. I little humility dispensation here...STA does not stand out versus those, and that isn't a trash comment on STA. Maybe STA grads flock back here because this bubble mentality mets them unemployable elsewhere unless they learned to drop this overt buy my elitism act in 4 years of college. There are decent paying law or lobby careers here for those who can handle 35 years of mind numbing boredom.

You have some issues to work out. Did some STA grad steal your girlfriend/fire you/kick your dog? That might explain the hostility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we set aside connections for a moment, can anyone tell me what I gain by hiring a STA alum, assuming all other things are equal?

So, let's say I have two applications in front of me. Both attended well-regarded graduate programs in public policy. Both have 3 years of experience living overseas.

Is there any reason to choose the STA alum? Basically, is there any reason to assume that someone who got into St. Alban's did so because they are de facto a cut above? Is it a meritocracy?

You may or may not get connections, but you are perhaps more likely to hire someone with family and roots in dc, who knows dc, and who would be more likely to stay in dc. If your business is such that you invest a lot in training and integration the first few years, in hopes that the best employees will stay long term, this can be very valuable and may tip the scales all else being equal. I went to a relatively unknown local high school and listed it for my first job out of law school (well, for the summer job at a firm I then went to after clerking). Multiple interviewers asked me about the school, whether we knew people in common, etc., and I received offers at all my top choice firms (though I do t think whether I listed my high school had much to do with it). Sure, some people may put it to imply they have connection useful to an employer, which does seem a bit much. I just put it to emphasize that I was coming home to dc and planned to stay. My parents had since moved so I couldn't use their old address, and an adult using their parents' house as an address has it's own issues in perception I would guess.

I'm guessing different businesses work differently. At my firm, no way would HR have a cut in hiring/ranking attorney applicants. And, we care if people are dedicated to DC because aren't a as added with offices everywhere.

If I were applying to Google, as others have mentioned, I'd take a different perspective. But I wasn't, so I didn't.

You're right -- it didn't. It merely gave the interviewers something to talk about. And you listed a "relatively unknown local high school," not St Albans, so interviewers were less likely to be turned off.

Your anecdote doesn't add much to the discussion.

I'm so sorry you are unable to extrapolate. Perhaps STA grads may be in the same situation I was, and also wanting to emphasize local ties. After three years work experience inured in the hypo, it seems late to include any school. I just think including you local high school can be helpful in getting your first professional job in your home town, whether your school is well known or not. I'm so sorry for eating you time sharing my "anecdote " while you are sharing your omniscient wisdom. For clarity, I'm one if the earlier posters who has also been doing associate hiring at a high-regarded law firm since the 1990s. Because I was addressing why people may include local schools, I examined my own thinking. Is that clear enough for you?

This is not a thread on whether to list one's local high school on a resume. It's a thread on whether listing an elite prep school on your resume is helpful or hurtful. So, you're right, I am unable to extrapolate, because it can't be done.

Oh, and I, too, am one of the former posters with many years of hiring experience at a top DC law firm -- meaning that you can't even speak for most of your own industry, yet again "most employers" in DC.

Never said I spoke for "most employers" in any market or industry. I've only shared my experience. Honestly, what on Earth is wrong with you? Is it so unbelievable to you that others may not share your presumption that applicants from two different local high schools, one well-known and one not, make decisions on the same practical reasons? That not everyone assumes the worst motives of grads of elite schools? We have had different experiences, or have different presumptions when we read a resume. Not a big deal.