Brutal Admissions Year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son got into just one college out of the seven where he applied. It is a great school especially for what he wishes to major and he got some financial assistance as well.

He got turned down by every other school or wait-listed. But within the scheme of things it really does not matter unless one is wanting to brag about the number of acceptances received. After all, he can only go to one school when the time comes.

Keep a perspective people ......... for your own sake and, more importantly, for your children's self-esteem.

WTF, are you trying to prove?

And again, this is a 'me me me' approach to a much broader issue.

Kids applied to many schools because they want to make sure they get to one of them. It does not mean they want to brag that how many they get acceptance. Everyone knows every kid can go to only one school. If kids got accepted into more than one schools, it does not mean kids want to brag or improve their self-esteem or "me me me". Your son applied to seven schools and what happen if all seven of them accepted him. Is this meant your son wants to brag? Or is your son being "me me me"?

My point is that neither my son nor I have the least angst about him not having been accepted into the other six.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Admission may be brutal, but financial aid offers have been brutal. Our HHI is under $100k, and no aid from any of schools that our DC got accepted to. The desirability of an accepted student may depend on his stats, and our DC is pretty competitive, and yet received no fin aid. Pretty bummed that we can't spend half of our income for college every year, so the acceptance is meaningless for us.

PP here - when I went through the cycle, fin aid was worst at the 'lower t25'...i.e. cmu, Georgetown, and jhu. Stingy fuckers that trifecta.

Has that changed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son got into just one college out of the seven where he applied. It is a great school especially for what he wishes to major and he got some financial assistance as well.

He got turned down by every other school or wait-listed. But within the scheme of things it really does not matter unless one is wanting to brag about the number of acceptances received. After all, he can only go to one school when the time comes.

Keep a perspective people ......... for your own sake and, more importantly, for your children's self-esteem.

WTF, are you trying to prove?

And again, this is a 'me me me' approach to a much broader issue.

What broader issue? Yes, we all know that there are a lot of applicants for the same top schools whether private or public. We all know that the competition is incredible. We know that it ends up being a bit of a crap-shoot where the decisions made are not entirely rational.

But you basically need for your kid to get into one acceptable college. This is not some sort of competition to see who gets the most acceptances.

Read the WSJ op-ed article I posted. She captures the issues in a humorous way, from the teenager point of view.

I don't know why you feel I need my kid to get into one 'acceptable college', when I've stated numerous times that my kid has gotten into three (now four) 'acceptable' colleges, even to the likes of the DCUM crowd. MY idea of an 'acceptable' college, is the one where a kid is happiest - I really don't give a crap about status. Never have.

What I DO give a crap about is broken processes. Going to visit colleges has been eye-opening. Instead of admissions officers talking about what their college can offer my kid (after all, we parents are paying them - and a lot!), it was all about their reputations, their social standings, their diversity programs, etc. That led to me doing some research and reading. Do some yourself - it's positively eye-opening.

My initial comment was not directed at you and I have read the WSJ article.

I think the whole process being the pressure cooker that it is today is in large measure because parents and others involved in the admissions process have made it a rat race of sorts. Even the whole urgency of getting into an Ivy is insane - and I went to one of the Ivies.

A lot of the pressure comes from parents even though they deny it.

I see it as the parents know the stakes so they feel they need to put the pressure on. I personally feel community college for the first 2 years is the best bang for the buck, but the kids want a college experience starting from Freshman year, and I get that.

Politics is largely responsible for what going on, from government loans to profiling to ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I find shocking is how hard it is for a good student to get into state universities--not talking UVA and W&M but good all-around schools like JMU and Va Tech that used to be a nice middle-class admissions safety net.

OP here....exactly!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son got into just one college out of the seven where he applied. It is a great school especially for what he wishes to major and he got some financial assistance as well.

He got turned down by every other school or wait-listed. But within the scheme of things it really does not matter unless one is wanting to brag about the number of acceptances received. After all, he can only go to one school when the time comes.

Keep a perspective people ......... for your own sake and, more importantly, for your children's self-esteem.

WTF, are you trying to prove?

And again, this is a 'me me me' approach to a much broader issue.

Kids applied to many schools because they want to make sure they get to one of them. It does not mean they want to brag that how many they get acceptance. Everyone knows every kid can go to only one school. If kids got accepted into more than one schools, it does not mean kids want to brag or improve their self-esteem or "me me me". Your son applied to seven schools and what happen if all seven of them accepted him. Is this meant your son wants to brag? Or is your son being "me me me"?

Not the one with the son, but I am the one who said the 'me me me' approach. I was directing that at the adults posting in this thread, who want to find something personal in something that's much more general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the "one" poster's point appears to be some variation on this (these are not my beliefs, by the way):

The college process is broken.

By which I mean,

Isn't it a real shame that so many admissions spots currently go to applicants -- particularly under-represented minorities and international students -- some number of whom I do not think are deserving or meritorious, because I believe that they are given special advantages in the admissions process.

(My editorializing:

An immigrant student working throughout high school in order to help support their family, will probably not have as high a gpa, and may indeed have poorer test scores as they have little time and guidance to prepare for standardized test.

But who are we to say that they do not have as meritorious a story - in their own way- as the applicant who studied as a chocolatier's apprentice -- whose unique background is also rightly valued.)

Getting back to the summary (again, not my beliefs)

Yes, it is such a shame that so many of those admissions spots are given away because that increases the pressure on all the other students, who feel that they can only get into these schools if they can achieve perfection in terms of taking rigorous class loads, earning perfect grades in those classes, and attaining near-perfect standardized test scores to be admitted.

So, we need to "change the system".

By which the "one" poster might - and I say only might - mean this,

Stop giving admissions to other applicants because that stresses out "our" applicants who work themselves into a breakdown to attain the right stats for college, and even then might fail.

(Back to my editorializing. Since the problem is too much stress on students, one can:

Opt out of the system.

In other words, tell your child that it is not worth a sacrifice of their physical or mental health to take a full slate of Honors and Advanced classes. Advise them to push themselves in those areas they genuinely want to study, and to take the regular courses in everything else.

Emphasize that having them attend a smaller, less well-known college, or the less prestigious, third state option, is just fine by you.

OR, change the system,

By which I suppose might mean that we should get universities to rely less and less on GPA and test scores, and more on other factors (that would certainly lessen the stress on students trying to achieve academic perfection).

Or perhaps, rely only on GPA and test scores, and do away with all the extracurricular pressures (but that would still lead to academically stressed students, and less well-rounded applicants).

Since the OP wants to discuss the options, let's discuss the options. OP, what are your solutions to this "problem"?

I would love to hear OP's suggestions on how to change the system and fix the broken process.

[Anonymous]

OP here. As parents, we did the not worth the sacrifice, etc. option, but that doesn't erase what peers and the schools themselves are saying. It sunk in to a degree, and my kid will realize we are correct when safely ensconced in the school of her choice. We also emphasized the right to transfer if the school of choice is not to her liking.

I think affirmative action needs to be completely done away with. It's unconstitutional and anyone who truly believes in equality, should support that. We should not be padding scores of X students and subtracting from scores of Y students. More emphasis on charter schools in earlier years, etc. - build the foundation; don't try to fix it at the college level.

Athletics should continue to be rewarded. Athletes put in a lot of time and effort and talent. However, the schools should not dumb down or make up courses aka UNC - instead they should be providing support networks for ALL students - athletes or not - who are at risk.

Do away with the US News report rankings, and others like it. Put more of an emphasis on books like Colleges That Change Lives and other such publications. This will force colleges to change how they do things internally in order to attract students.

For pete's sake, do away with obvious political bias on campus. I'm not talking about student driven, but faculty driven.

Get federal government OUT of the college loan business. That will help lower the cost of colleges - even Biden admits that much.

That's a start anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. As parents, we did the not worth the sacrifice, etc. option, but that doesn't erase what peers and the schools themselves are saying. It sunk in to a degree, and my kid will realize we are correct when safely ensconced in the school of her choice. We also emphasized the right to transfer if the school of choice is not to her liking.

I think affirmative action needs to be completely done away with. It's unconstitutional and anyone who truly believes in equality, should support that. We should not be padding scores of X students and subtracting from scores of Y students. More emphasis on charter schools in earlier years, etc. - build the foundation; don't try to fix it at the college level.

Athletics should continue to be rewarded. Athletes put in a lot of time and effort and talent. However, the schools should not dumb down or make up courses aka UNC - instead they should be providing support networks for ALL students - athletes or not - who are at risk.

Do away with the US News report rankings, and others like it. Put more of an emphasis on books like Colleges That Change Lives and other such publications. This will force colleges to change how they do things internally in order to attract students.

For pete's sake, do away with obvious political bias on campus. I'm not talking about student driven, but faculty driven.

Get federal government OUT of the college loan business. That will help lower the cost of colleges - even Biden admits that much.

That's a start anyway.

I disagree with ending affirmative action and the right of private universities to strive for diversity in their student body. I disagree about ending ranking as well. I also disagree with ending the government's role in student loans. And there is no way to end political bias on campus without censoring professors. Intellectuals have always been liberal minded since the creation of academia - get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. As parents, we did the not worth the sacrifice, etc. option, but that doesn't erase what peers and the schools themselves are saying. It sunk in to a degree, and my kid will realize we are correct when safely ensconced in the school of her choice. We also emphasized the right to transfer if the school of choice is not to her liking.

I think affirmative action needs to be completely done away with. It's unconstitutional and anyone who truly believes in equality, should support that. We should not be padding scores of X students and subtracting from scores of Y students. More emphasis on charter schools in earlier years, etc. - build the foundation; don't try to fix it at the college level.

Athletics should continue to be rewarded. Athletes put in a lot of time and effort and talent. However, the schools should not dumb down or make up courses aka UNC - instead they should be providing support networks for ALL students - athletes or not - who are at risk.

Do away with the US News report rankings, and others like it. Put more of an emphasis on books like Colleges That Change Lives and other such publications. This will force colleges to change how they do things internally in order to attract students.

For pete's sake, do away with obvious political bias on campus. I'm not talking about student driven, but faculty driven.

Get federal government OUT of the college loan business. That will help lower the cost of colleges - even Biden admits that much.

That's a start anyway.

I was the poster who asked for your solutions, OP; and though I do not agree with many of them, I do admire you for having the courage of your convictions, and the belief in your ideas, to post them clearly and openly (or as openly as an anonymous forum will permit) because I know that you will get a lot of flack for doing so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. As parents, we did the not worth the sacrifice, etc. option, but that doesn't erase what peers and the schools themselves are saying. It sunk in to a degree, and my kid will realize we are correct when safely ensconced in the school of her choice. We also emphasized the right to transfer if the school of choice is not to her liking.

I think affirmative action needs to be completely done away with. It's unconstitutional and anyone who truly believes in equality, should support that. We should not be padding scores of X students and subtracting from scores of Y students. More emphasis on charter schools in earlier years, etc. - build the foundation; don't try to fix it at the college level.

Athletics should continue to be rewarded. Athletes put in a lot of time and effort and talent. However, the schools should not dumb down or make up courses aka UNC - instead they should be providing support networks for ALL students - athletes or not - who are at risk.

Do away with the US News report rankings, and others like it. Put more of an emphasis on books like Colleges That Change Lives and other such publications. This will force colleges to change how they do things internally in order to attract students.

For pete's sake, do away with obvious political bias on campus. I'm not talking about student driven, but faculty driven.

Get federal government OUT of the college loan business. That will help lower the cost of colleges - even Biden admits that much.

That's a start anyway.

I was the poster who asked for your solutions, OP; and though I do not agree with many of them, I do admire you for having the courage of your convictions, and the belief in your ideas, to post them clearly and openly (or as openly as an anonymous forum will permit) because I know that you will get a lot of flack for doing so.

I didn't give her flack - I just disagreed. I hope that is okay with you.

[Anonymous]

LOL at the person (incorrectly) decrying private colleges' affirmative action policies as unconstitutional and then trampling the First Amendment when it comes to the US News rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. As parents, we did the not worth the sacrifice, etc. option, but that doesn't erase what peers and the schools themselves are saying. It sunk in to a degree, and my kid will realize we are correct when safely ensconced in the school of her choice. We also emphasized the right to transfer if the school of choice is not to her liking.

I think affirmative action needs to be completely done away with. It's unconstitutional and anyone who truly believes in equality, should support that. We should not be padding scores of X students and subtracting from scores of Y students. More emphasis on charter schools in earlier years, etc. - build the foundation; don't try to fix it at the college level.

Athletics should continue to be rewarded. Athletes put in a lot of time and effort and talent. However, the schools should not dumb down or make up courses aka UNC - instead they should be providing support networks for ALL students - athletes or not - who are at risk.

Do away with the US News report rankings, and others like it. Put more of an emphasis on books like Colleges That Change Lives and other such publications. This will force colleges to change how they do things internally in order to attract students.

For pete's sake, do away with obvious political bias on campus. I'm not talking about student driven, but faculty driven.

Get federal government OUT of the college loan business. That will help lower the cost of colleges - even Biden admits that much.

That's a start anyway.

I was the poster who asked for your solutions, OP; and though I do not agree with many of them, I do admire you for having the courage of your convictions, and the belief in your ideas, to post them clearly and openly (or as openly as an anonymous forum will permit) because I know that you will get a lot of flack for doing so.

I didn't give her flack - I just disagreed. I hope that is okay with you.

Yes, by all means, I actually agree with you, and your points were firmly, but pleasantly made.

You and I were clearly writing simultaneously, so I did not actually see your specific post as I was writing mine. Thus, my post was not made as a comment on, or a criticism of, yours.

However, I do anticipate that OP's candidness will elicit responses that won't be quite so kindly worded as yours.

[Anonymous]

If you want to see what reliance on scores alone would look like, take a gander:

[Anonymous]

Do away with the US News report rankings, and others like it. Put more of an emphasis on books like Colleges That Change Lives and other such publications. This will force colleges to change how they do things internally in order to attract students.

I would not do away with rankings, and here's why. I applied to college before US News began ranking colleges. I was the first in my family to go to college. My parents were very excited about this and tried to advise me, but really with no college background themselves, they did their best, but they didn't know what they didn't know. We probably could have made a better decision back then if we had realized that one set of schools was better on a number of measurable levels than another. (Of course, I could have made a better decision if we'd had the internet back then, too!)

[Anonymous]

I don't think parents and many kids who are influenced by their parents realize how relatively unimportant the undergrad school is when it comes to pursuing a career. It does not mean a rinky dink college is as good as any of the better schools but more that one does not need to go to an elite school to fare well in terms of a career.

My daughter went to what might be categorized as a "B" level school for undergrad after being rejected at Stanford. She then went to a med school in the US which would also be categorized as average. She is now doing her residency at Stanford in one of the best programs in the country for her chosen specialty.

The important thing is to do well academically at the undergrad program that one attends.