Why, oh why, do the schools still ask students to read so much fiction?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd much rather students read real nonfiction sources in history and social sciences

Just what do you consider "real nonfiction sources" in the social sciences? Primary sources in history, I understand and the kids do read some of those. It would be impossible to read enough to learn history.

I'm not even sure what a non-real non-fiction source would be. If it is non-fiction, then it is by definition real. Perhaps the poster meant serious works of history and not picture books.

In any event, primary sources are not the only "real" sources. Any well-written history book is a "real" source of non-fiction.

Textbooks are written by committees to convey information to students. This is a rhetorical never-never land. Students start to see writing as just words, just information. They don't understand that writing is written by a person (or two) for a reader with a purpose in mind (to persuade the reader to their perspective). After a lifetime of textbook reading, my college students think writing is just information - they have no concept of the assumptions and purposes behind writing. They don't understand that writing is a conversation that happens in a context.

Real books not textbooks.

[Anonymous]

And that's a problem in college for kids who've only used textbooks I guess, but not a current problem for our students today who receive zero textbooks and therefore have no way to organize their learning. Can't there be a middle ground where we use both?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:00:45 There are already no text books in elementary and middle school. Why does everyone want to get rid of textbooks so much? Kids are having to share books, parents don't know what is going on at school anymore? I wish there were more textbooks.

Textbooks become dated too easily and very expensive to replace. Good, progressive schools and school systems are realizing the benefits of using additional resources for kids to learn and the limitations of an only textbook environment - not to mention the cumbersome task of carrying these textbooks! Not to say that textbooks aren't useful in some contexts, but overall I believe a combination of different resources is the best approach for learning.

I'm not sure what you mean by parents not knowing what is going on in school anymore…are you saying that using a textbook somehow makes parents automatically connected to what is happening in the classroom? How would that be any different than other periodicals that your child is using? You simply need to talk to your kids about what they are learning in class. I bet they are so much more engaged when they are taught to find a reliable and quality source online or elsewhere that will be more than willing to talk about a subject with you - it happens with my kids. The resources that are available to kids now are so wonderful and though-provoking that I personally don't understand when people want to hold onto only textbooks. It's different than when we were going to school and change is often hard to accept, but the benefits are there.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about textbooks. I think it's fine to use one as a "spine" for a course, with periodicals and "real books" fleshing out the subject, but I don't care for a course that relies totally on a textbook.

Some parents like textbooks because they like to buy their own copy and teach their kids from the book in advance of the class. They prefer for their children to be exposed to the work before it is studied in class. From talking to people who would rather their children be taught mostly from a textbook, there seem to be a variety of reasons. Sometimes having the text enables the parent to help a child who has trouble understanding in class, sometimes it is in hopes of giving a child an "edge" in class. Some parents just don't feel the teachers are knowledgeable enough to teach the parent's favorite subject. A lot of parents grew up with textbooks, so it is what they know and feel comfortable with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And that's a problem in college for kids who've only used textbooks I guess, but not a current problem for our students today who receive zero textbooks and therefore have no way to organize their learning. Can't there be a middle ground where we use both?

I think Math is where kids suffer the most from not having a textbook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And that's a problem in college for kids who've only used textbooks I guess, but not a current problem for our students today who receive zero textbooks and therefore have no way to organize their learning. Can't there be a middle ground where we use both?

I think Math is where kids suffer the most from not having a textbook.

What school is not using textbooks for math? My kids have always had a text for math (FCPS schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And that's a problem in college for kids who've only used textbooks I guess, but not a current problem for our students today who receive zero textbooks and therefore have no way to organize their learning. Can't there be a middle ground where we use both?

I think Math is where kids suffer the most from not having a textbook.

What school is not using textbooks for math? My kids have always had a text for math (FCPS schools).

Your neighboor in Maryland. MCPS.

[Anonymous]

“Art is the lie that enables us to realize the truth.”
? Pablo Picasso

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And that's a problem in college for kids who've only used textbooks I guess, but not a current problem for our students today who receive zero textbooks and therefore have no way to organize their learning. Can't there be a middle ground where we use both?

I think Math is where kids suffer the most from not having a textbook.

What school is not using textbooks for math? My kids have always had a text for math (FCPS schools).

Your neighboor in Maryland. MCPS.

What do they use instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:36 Which classes does FCPS even use textbooks for? Is this a big issue? I keep hearing there aren't any, but only have a 3rd grader. I do not like the non-text book way of teaching because for example in my child's language arts class, everyone now reads a different book and talks about it instead of everyone reading the same story. With a textbook nowadays, I can look up exactly what they're studying and even buy it for myself. In addition, my child gets dittos all the time. They are always black and white and uninteresting. Textbooks come with more engaging workbooks nowadays. I see them in the local parochial school. The parochial school has lots of other resources, but also has textbooks. The teacher can either use dittos or have the kid answer questions from the workbook or write down answers on paper from the textbook.

I don't live in VA so I cannot comment on what happens in FCPS, but in general I believe the use of a variety of resources provides a more rich, complex and modern way for kids to learn. Although, I agree that if your school is only using black & white dittos that is boring and shows a lack of creativity and motivation on the part of the teacher (hate to say it…). My kids are teenagers and I never felt compelled to buy a textbook to work with them. Are your kids not allowed to bring the textbook home? Maybe that is the difference since I would have been able to see the textbooks that my kids used. If I ever felt the need to help them out we could refer to the textbook. However, truthfully, we never did that once and my kids are teenagers now. Also, IMO the only subject that a textbook seems worthwhile was with math and, possibly, science. All the other subjects used a combination of resources and my kids preferred it that way, especially in history class. My kids were taught from the end of elementary through middle school the ways to find reliable online resources. The internet has amazing resources, but it also has some pretty unbelievable stuff and we all need to learn how to identify when it is reliable.

I don't actually advocate removing textbooks completely. They do have uses that add to the learning environment. My only argument is that including additional resources only adds to the learning. As I said above, using a variety of resources provides the best learning environment.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, there are kids in FCPS who do not have access to the internet at home. And, they don't all live near a library.

[Anonymous]

FCPS apparently has an online math textbook, but in 4 years I've never seen one page used from it. The teachers just use the dittos from ecart. There are no other textbooks I know of in FCPS at least for elementary and I've heard the same for middle school. High school is a long way away for us still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, there are kids in FCPS who do not have access to the internet at home. And, they don't all live near a library.

The kids don't necessarily need to be able to access the internet in order to benefit from the other resources - the teachers do and I'm sure teachers in FCPS have access to the internet. The teacher can have these resources available for the kids to use in the classroom and bring home. The use of boring black & white dittos is outdated and shows an incredible lack of creativity on the part of the teacher. There are a number of resources that teachers can access for free (or very little money for a subscription which the school system may already have a subscription for anyway….) - it only takes investigating and finding the numerous things out there. Unfortunately, it sounds like the teachers you're dealing with are set in their ways and don't want to try anything new and interesting. Lacking a desire to try new things is something which happens in every profession, but it's hard for me to see with teachers since there is a lot out there for teachers…they just have to look for it.

[Anonymous]

The kids don't necessarily need to be able to access the internet in order to benefit from the other resources - the teachers do and I'm sure teachers in FCPS have access to the internet. The teacher can have these resources available for the kids to use in the classroom and bring home. The use of boring black & white dittos is outdated and shows an incredible lack of creativity on the part of the teacher. There are a number of resources that teachers can access for free (or very little money for a subscription which the school system may already have a subscription for anyway….) - it only takes investigating and finding the numerous things out there. Unfortunately, it sounds like the teachers you're dealing with are set in their ways and don't want to try anything new and interesting. Lacking a desire to try new things is something which happens in every profession, but it's hard for me to see with teachers since there is a lot out there for teachers…they just have to look for it.

You are incredibly naïve. Teachers are not free to send just anything they find home. Plus, this all costs money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS apparently has an online math textbook, but in 4 years I've never seen one page used from it. The teachers just use the dittos from ecart. There are no other textbooks I know of in FCPS at least for elementary and I've heard the same for middle school. High school is a long way away for us still.

My child uses the online version of the math textbook all the time. They have regular textbooks they keep at school. An online textbook is still a textbook, as opposed to teaching using a variety of "real life" sources such as periodicals and books. Textbooks are appropriate for teaching math but not necessarily so for teaching other subjects.
In social studies and science, kids can get a lot more out of reading well-written non-fiction sources.

[Anonymous]

In social studies and science, kids can get a lot more out of reading well-written non-fiction sources.

In high school history, you need a basic history text. Certainly other resources should also be used. And, new teachers really need textbooks.