I barely have an idea what is being taught in child's 1st grade class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do teachers not know what the median salary when they go into the profession? Civil jobs in this country do not pay a lot. Police, nurse, teacher, firefighter, EMT etc... do not make a lot. They are supposed to recruit for people that are passionate about the job. Jobs like lawyers and doctors recruit money hungry people. I certainly would NOT want those type of people teaching my kid. That said, there is not a huge need for teachers and crappy ones that name it thru a few years never get fired. It sucks.

Everybody knows that teaching does not usually pay well, and is a low-prestige job to boot (just ask the high-powered lawyer PP, above). Which is why a lot of people who might be good teachers decide not to go into teaching, but instead to go into a different field that pays better and has more prestige. Yay for them. Too bad for us, though.

Bigger pay means bigger class-size. The budget only has so much. You take out the illegals and all the costs associated with teaching their kids and you have a much bigger budget to work with. But everyone is too PC to mention that educating millions of kids that need ESOL, FARMS and have parents that directly never help the school. Well it has added up over time. Bigger class sizes, no more aides, less paraeducators, etc... It has destroyed MCPS district in the last 10-15 years.

I agree that costs and resources are being redirected to bring non English speakers up to speed and it is why I would prefer to have a separate school for non english speakers that is paid for by the family. The school will bring them up to speed until the student can assimiliate into a regular classroom. That will provide incentive for the family to make sure their kid learns English quickly so they don't have to pay for the English classes. As for the FARMS kids and I bet you can lump the ESOL kids in here too, if you are succeeding in school and keeping up with the curriculum ,you have every right to be there. Can't afford lunch - different program - its called welfare and it shouldn't be tied to educational budgets. don't mix the apples with the oranges. I also support having a school for misbehaving kids. By keeping the classromm homogenized to the extent that you have an avergae performance for each grade will simplify teaching. Those that excel can go into their G&T programs. Those that fall behind can go into programs designed for slower learners. But a teacher won't have to try and deal with kids all progressing at vastly different paces or kids that are disruptive.

+1000

The waste of mixed classes with reading groups is a colossal waste of time the kids are not being taught. If they can prioritize the math, they can keep the kid's homerooms based on reading levels. I am even okay with lower the ratios to the kids who are struggling. Let the highest tested class have 24 kids and lowest tested class have 18 kids. I just think it would be so much easier for kids and teachers to learn. And yes, the non-English kids are eating up a huge chunk of budget costs. No other country caters to free school and lessons in their language. You are required to assimilate before entering the school. But then again, other countries don't just let illegal immigrants walk right in and demand/protest for their "rights" to school, jobs, welfare, health insurance etc... ironically even Mexico!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The waste of mixed classes with reading groups is a colossal waste of time the kids are not being taught. If they can prioritize the math, they can keep the kid's homerooms based on reading levels. I am even okay with lower the ratios to the kids who are struggling. Let the highest tested class have 24 kids and lowest tested class have 18 kids. I just think it would be so much easier for kids and teachers to learn. And yes, the non-English kids are eating up a huge chunk of budget costs. No other country caters to free school and lessons in their language. You are required to assimilate before entering the school. But then again, other countries don't just let illegal immigrants walk right in and demand/protest for their "rights" to school, jobs, welfare, health insurance etc... ironically even Mexico!!

Shorter PP: I don't know anything about education, but I don't let that stop me from offering my opinions about education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The waste of mixed classes with reading groups is a colossal waste of time the kids are not being taught. If they can prioritize the math, they can keep the kid's homerooms based on reading levels. I am even okay with lower the ratios to the kids who are struggling. Let the highest tested class have 24 kids and lowest tested class have 18 kids. I just think it would be so much easier for kids and teachers to learn. And yes, the non-English kids are eating up a huge chunk of budget costs. No other country caters to free school and lessons in their language. You are required to assimilate before entering the school. But then again, other countries don't just let illegal immigrants walk right in and demand/protest for their "rights" to school, jobs, welfare, health insurance etc... ironically even Mexico!!

Shorter PP: I don't know anything about education, but I don't let that stop me from offering my opinions about education.

^^
Signed,
Illegal Alien

[Anonymous]

Tee hee.

I mean, really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The waste of mixed classes with reading groups is a colossal waste of time the kids are not being taught. If they can prioritize the math, they can keep the kid's homerooms based on reading levels. I am even okay with lower the ratios to the kids who are struggling. Let the highest tested class have 24 kids and lowest tested class have 18 kids. I just think it would be so much easier for kids and teachers to learn. And yes, the non-English kids are eating up a huge chunk of budget costs. No other country caters to free school and lessons in their language. You are required to assimilate before entering the school. But then again, other countries don't just let illegal immigrants walk right in and demand/protest for their "rights" to school, jobs, welfare, health insurance etc... ironically even Mexico!!

Shorter PP: I don't know anything about education, but I don't let that stop me from offering my opinions about education.

I'm not the PP, but that's a pretty ridiculous comeback, IMO.

I have a kid in MCPS and I feel that some of the PPs comments are valid. There is a tremendous amount of time wasted in ES classrooms the way they are set up right now. Sure, I might not be an educator... so what? I'm not allowed to voice my opinion about my kid's education?

You're not even addressing any of the PPs complaints. I completely agree that the mixed classes with 5 or 6 different reading groups is ridiculous. Nobody benefits from all that wasted class time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the PP, but that's a pretty ridiculous comeback, IMO.

I have a kid in MCPS and I feel that some of the PPs comments are valid. There is a tremendous amount of time wasted in ES classrooms the way they are set up right now. Sure, I might not be an educator... so what? I'm not allowed to voice my opinion about my kid's education?

You're not even addressing any of the PPs complaints. I completely agree that the mixed classes with 5 or 6 different reading groups is ridiculous. Nobody benefits from all that wasted class time.

Please read this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/02/22/you-think-you-know-what-teachers-do-right-wrong/

As a parent, you are of course allowed to voice your opinion about education. In fact, even non-parents are allowed to voice their opinions about education. But there is a difference between "voicing your opinion" and "knowing what you're talking about". Having gone to school does not make you an expert in education. There is empirical research about the benefits of within-class ability grouping. MCPS did not just make all of this stuff up out of thin air to annoy parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the PP, but that's a pretty ridiculous comeback, IMO.

I have a kid in MCPS and I feel that some of the PPs comments are valid. There is a tremendous amount of time wasted in ES classrooms the way they are set up right now. Sure, I might not be an educator... so what? I'm not allowed to voice my opinion about my kid's education?

You're not even addressing any of the PPs complaints. I completely agree that the mixed classes with 5 or 6 different reading groups is ridiculous. Nobody benefits from all that wasted class time.

Please read this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/02/22/you-think-you-know-what-teachers-do-right-wrong/

As a parent, you are of course allowed to voice your opinion about education. In fact, even non-parents are allowed to voice their opinions about education. But there is a difference between "voicing your opinion" and "knowing what you're talking about". Having gone to school does not make you an expert in education. There is empirical research about the benefits of within-class ability grouping. MCPS did not just make all of this stuff up out of thin air to annoy parents.

Links to this empirical evidence? I don't buy it. My daughhter's first grade teacher told me during a conference that having kids coming in and out of classes is disruptive. I am talking ESOL, and kids of various disabilities, not to mention kids that are just disruptive. My daughter is bored to tears because her class is primarily esol kids that have not mastered english at a first grade level. The lesson is dumbed down to accomade the majority. Not to mention a couple of the kids are troublemakers so now the teacher has to babysit them. If I could afford to move, I'd get the heck out of montgomery county. My tax dollars paying to teach someone english? No thank you, learn the language on your own dime. Only in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the PP, but that's a pretty ridiculous comeback, IMO.

I have a kid in MCPS and I feel that some of the PPs comments are valid. There is a tremendous amount of time wasted in ES classrooms the way they are set up right now. Sure, I might not be an educator... so what? I'm not allowed to voice my opinion about my kid's education?

You're not even addressing any of the PPs complaints. I completely agree that the mixed classes with 5 or 6 different reading groups is ridiculous. Nobody benefits from all that wasted class time.

Please read this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/02/22/you-think-you-know-what-teachers-do-right-wrong/

As a parent, you are of course allowed to voice your opinion about education. In fact, even non-parents are allowed to voice their opinions about education. But there is a difference between "voicing your opinion" and "knowing what you're talking about". Having gone to school does not make you an expert in education. There is empirical research about the benefits of within-class ability grouping. MCPS did not just make all of this stuff up out of thin air to annoy parents.

Not the PP but this shows us nothing. I volunteer enough in my child's class to know that the kids not in reading groups are bored. They goof off, some read a book, most doodle after they are done their one worksheet. The teacher never teaches as a class. Kids never working on the same thing. You are lucky to meet in a reading group twice a week and for most kids who are reading well, they only go once so the teacher can get the kids who need more, into groups often. Just because my daughter is smart doesn't mean she only deserves 20min of teaching a week and 6hrs of "busy" work. And like the other poster said ESOL kids come and go all morning too. My daughters teacher seems so stress trying to teach a reading group and constantly stopping to tell the other kids to stop goofing off, do you work, where did Mikey go? The paraeducators that used to be in the class to help K teachers were axed for ESOL teachers. Less help, less control, no fun for anyone. I have yet to find a teacher that can successfully work small groups and keep the rest of the class learning and focused on something else. it isn't their fault but there is only so much you can give.

And really, if within-class ability grouping works, then why not do it for math too. Let's put all the kids together and take mini groups to teach various levels of math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Links to this empirical evidence? I don't buy it. My daughhter's first grade teacher told me during a conference that having kids coming in and out of classes is disruptive. I am talking ESOL, and kids of various disabilities, not to mention kids that are just disruptive. My daughter is bored to tears because her class is primarily esol kids that have not mastered english at a first grade level. The lesson is dumbed down to accomade the majority. Not to mention a couple of the kids are troublemakers so now the teacher has to babysit them. If I could afford to move, I'd get the heck out of montgomery county. My tax dollars paying to teach someone english? No thank you, learn the language on your own dime. Only in America.

The empirical evidence exists. If you're interested, you can start by Googling "within-class ability grouping". If you're not interested, because you already know you're right anyway, then you don't have to bother.

And if you don't think that children who are learning English, and children with disabilities, have an equal right to an education, then yes, you will be unhappy in Montgomery County. Indeed, you will be unhappy anywhere in public school in the US, since

1. according to federal law, children with disabilities have a right to a free appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment. Google "Individuals with Disabilities Education Act".
2. according to the US Supreme Court, depriving children of an education based on their immigration status violates their equal protection rights under the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution. Google "Plyler v. Doe".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Links to this empirical evidence? I don't buy it. My daughhter's first grade teacher told me during a conference that having kids coming in and out of classes is disruptive. I am talking ESOL, and kids of various disabilities, not to mention kids that are just disruptive. My daughter is bored to tears because her class is primarily esol kids that have not mastered english at a first grade level. The lesson is dumbed down to accomade the majority. Not to mention a couple of the kids are troublemakers so now the teacher has to babysit them. If I could afford to move, I'd get the heck out of montgomery county. My tax dollars paying to teach someone english? No thank you, learn the language on your own dime. Only in America.

The empirical evidence exists. If you're interested, you can start by Googling "within-class ability grouping". If you're not interested, because you already know you're right anyway, then you don't have to bother.

And if you don't think that children who are learning English, and children with disabilities, have an equal right to an education, then yes, you will be unhappy in Montgomery County. Indeed, you will be unhappy anywhere in public school in the US, since

1. according to federal law, children with disabilities have a right to a free appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment. Google "Individuals with Disabilities Education Act".
2. according to the US Supreme Court, depriving children of an education based on their immigration status violates their equal protection rights under the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution. Google "Plyler v. Doe".

Either you're not reading all the PPs, or you're just choosing to ignore them.

20:24 said this:

I am even okay with lower the ratios to the kids who are struggling. Let the highest tested class have 24 kids and lowest tested class have 18 kids.

I'm not that PP, but that doesn't sound like the wants to 'deny' anyone an education. She's agreeing that the students have the right to a free education, and even agrees to lower ratios for the kids who need extra help. That sounds reasonable to me.

Only the one poster mentioned having ESOL kids learn English on their own dime.

I'm another PP who finds this system of mixed reading groups ridiculous. I'm sure one of these days someone will do a study showing how much time gets wasted in class due to this crap, and then we'll change everything around again. Sure, parents aren't experts. But, like the other PP, I also volunteer in my kids' classrooms and see how the kids are just goofing off during that reading group time. And, I also do not blame the teachers. There is simply no efficient way to teach 6 different groups of ability levels and give equal attention to all of them. AND, to do ALL of the other stuff that teachers are expected to do.

You still haven't offered up a solution for how a teacher can teach all these different reading groups effectively in one classroom, without wasting the other kids times. Please feel free to do so - I'd be interested in hearing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm another PP who finds this system of mixed reading groups ridiculous. I'm sure one of these days someone will do a study showing how much time gets wasted in class due to this crap, and then we'll change everything around again. Sure, parents aren't experts. But, like the other PP, I also volunteer in my kids' classrooms and see how the kids are just goofing off during that reading group time. And, I also do not blame the teachers. There is simply no efficient way to teach 6 different groups of ability levels and give equal attention to all of them. AND, to do ALL of the other stuff that teachers are expected to do.

You still haven't offered up a solution for how a teacher can teach all these different reading groups effectively in one classroom, without wasting the other kids times. Please feel free to do so - I'd be interested in hearing it.

Google "within-class ability grouping".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, to some of these comments. It's disgusting how entitled some people sound. Do you have any idea how hard your child's teacher is most likely working? You can't imagine how much some of you are asking of teachers. Weekly email reports?? Hilarious. Did you forget that teaching is not a desk job? Realty check: the majority of teachers spend a MINIMUM of 10-15 hours of personal (unpaid) time per week just to keep up with the job. You can't imagine the amount of time planning, grading, prepping, organizing, communicating with other staff, meetings, (did I mention TEACHING?) etc etc go into the demands of this job, especially with overcrowded classrooms which exasorbate behavior issues. Yes, in case it weren't obvious I am a teacher, and I speak with close to 20 years of experience. I can name on less than one hand the number of teachers who actually DON'T bring work home, and/or stay well beyond their duty day, and/or arrive early. To the commenter who complained that no reading took place in your child's classroom other than before report cards are sent, you surely misunderstood. Formal assessments only take place 3 times per year, as should be the case given that they take the teacher away from instruction and it is not necessary more frequently than that anyway. Reading instruction and guided groups should take place every day. And for the commenter who suggested 3 conferences including one with the reading specialist to evaluate your child, good luck with that. There is a special education process that you should look into because what you are suggesting is not how it works, nor should it work that way for good reason. Otherwise, we'd be wasting a lot of time formally evaluating children who would not qualify for an IEP. If your child's teacher had more time to communicate with you she would. Instead, it's probably her priority to get ready for the next day of lessons. You just can't imagine. The only time I ever have to communicate with parents is on my own personal time from home in the evenings. If she says your child is doing fine then trust that or otherwise ask for a parent conference (which you are perfectly entitled to and which a good teacher will call for herself if she feels it is needed), but know that your child's next lesson will probably not be as organized because of the planning time the conference costs the teacher. Yes, that's how it works.) Look on the MCPS website to investigate the specifics of the curriculum. Doesn't anyone ever wonder why it is such a high burn-out job in spite of the vacation and benefits? Yes I am disgruntled. Nobody gets it besides other teachers. The ones who manage to stick it out for the long haul do so because we love kids and have passion for the art of teaching. So try to show a little more respect, especially because something like 80% of the elementary teaching workforce today are in their first 5 years (meaning fresh out of college). If we want to increase the number of seasoned teachers, we need to make life a little less stressful for them, however possible.

1. Learn to use paragraphs.

2. You are a salaried employee, so time worked outside of the actual teaching time is *paid* time, not "personal" time. You are not a clock-puncher, you are a professional - right? Professionals are exempt from clock-punching and do what it takes to get the job done.

3. I do know how hard teachers work. My husband of 20 years is a teacher. He works far fewer hours than I (a lawyer) do, MUCH less. He is home by 5 every day and has plenty of vacation time. If you broke down our salaries by the hour, he makes more, no question.

4. He meets with parents before or after school at their request, no problem. (What are you doing that you cannot do that, that you must communicate with them in the evenings and cannot meet with them?)

5. He will be the first to tell you that his pay is fair, his benefits are good, and his hours are reasonable. If you have 20 years of experience I imagine you make a similar amount to what he does.

If you think you are underpaid, or any more stressed-out than any other working professional, you are deluded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am puzzled. Forgive me for my ignorance, I am from abroad. The class size is typically 30 kids or more in my country. Well, there were 42 in my class when I was in an elementary school.

A couple of things that I know:
1) Forcing all kids with various knowledge levels to stay within one class room and forcing a teacher to differentiate and teach them all is INefficient. This is against the wisdom learned during industrial revolution. In fact, this 19 century small workshop style teaching will undoubtedly jack up teachers' work load tremendously.

2) Textbooks can be helpful since they have detail on what should be taught. They can save teachers' time in digging information over the internet. Meanwhile,
- Textbooks are really necessary for science and math subjects. If someone do not understand why, I am glad to guide.
- Textbooks will bring clarity to all parties (teachers/students/parents). Many many parents in MC are with college or higher degrees. They would love to help if they know what is happening.

I got puzzled since the decisions were from teachers instead of parents and these decisions would lead to certain consequences as you described. Then, maybe, I think that the big picture is quite different in the eyes of teachers. Love to hear more.

l

Maybe we are from similar background as I agree with you very much. The only thing I don't agree with is that the decisions are not made by classroom teachers. they are made by the central office people who are no longer teaching. I think the forum has gone through several threads about the textbook issues. I think a lot of these problems can be solved by having textbooks. Then the parents will know exactly what has been covered and what the kids don't understand and provide help immediately.

how is printing worksheets haphazardly off the internet better than even a flawed textbook?

Many people who make decisions from the central office have never spent a day in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, to some of these comments. It's disgusting how entitled some people sound. Do you have any idea how hard your child's teacher is most likely working? You can't imagine how much some of you are asking of teachers. Weekly email reports?? Hilarious. Did you forget that teaching is not a desk job? Realty check: the majority of teachers spend a MINIMUM of 10-15 hours of personal (unpaid) time per week just to keep up with the job. You can't imagine the amount of time planning, grading, prepping, organizing, communicating with other staff, meetings, (did I mention TEACHING?) etc etc go into the demands of this job, especially with overcrowded classrooms which exasorbate behavior issues.

Reality check: that is not unpaid time. It's part of the job. You're a salary employee, right? You don't clock in each morning and make an hourly wage for the time you spend in the building, right? So you're getting paid for it. Your argument might be that the hours are long and you're not paid enough, which I would agree with. But let's be clear on the issue. (And I have several educators in my family and one close life-long friend who is a teacher.). I'm a lawyer and I have an annual billable hour requirement, which directly impacts my compensation, and then a bunch of administrative responsibilities that do not count toward my billables. But that doesn't mean I'm not paid for those tasks. They're just built into my base salary.

And I take issue with your hostility. Engaged parents are not the enemy. Many of us are highly educated and credit our success to education. We want to be partners in our kids' education. Figure out how to harness that to your benefit.

The point is that for the salary we are earning, and most importantly have the potential to ever earn, the workload is not fair. We too, are required to earn a bachelor's degree. We have a certain number of years to earn a master's or our salary will not advance. Ever. Our potential for earnings and our base salary pales in comparison to that of a lawyer and most other professional positions so I don't see how you can make this comparison. Furthermore, we stand no chance at an annual bonus. You can take issue with my hostility just as I have taken issue with some of the hostile comments toward teachers on this thread.

This is nonsense. If you are 20 years out, with a master's degree, you are at the top of the pay scale, with excellent benefits and plenty of time off. I'm the lawyer PP with the DH who is a teacher, and make about the same amount of money that you do, but I work a 50-hour week and don't get summers off. I do not get a bonus. And I'm pretty representative of most lawyers. Most of us do not work for BigLaw (which is not to say those lawyers don't earn their money; they do - they sell their souls for it).

In general, in the U.S., I agree that teachers are underpaid. In MoCo specifically, teachers are NOT underpaid. They are fairly paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Our potential for earnings and our base salary pales in comparison to that of a lawyer and most other professional positions so I don't see how you can make this comparison.

The majority of teachers would never cut it as a highly paid lawyer. Law schools pump out lots of law grads but very few make the big bucks. The ones that do are competitive and work hours that rival medical residents. Teachers, as a profession, have the lowest SAT and GPA scores so their ability to get into a law school which is almost a requirement now if you hope to get by a mid to large firm would be limited.

Teaching K-12 is not a competitive field which means that the best and brightest do not rise about the mediocre to just not bad enough to get fired. Raises are driven more from union negotiation and go against seniority and flat educational credentials. Raises are not driven by actually being a better teacher or doing anything with the masters that you earned. This scenario provides job security to many people but it holds the profession back significantly and reinforces teaching as an option for individuals that are not competitive, academically brilliant, or ambitious.

I think teaching should become more professionalized BUT increasing the performance and professionalism of this field will never happen is raises and job security are given for existence rather than merit.

If this is true (and I don't know if it is), it is not relevant. It is entirely possible to be both of average intelligence, and an excellent teacher. It is also entirely possible to be of high intelligence and be a mediocre or terrible teacher.

Academic brilliance is irrelevant to success as a teacher.