Surprise top-down changes to AAP center this fall . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anytime you talk about changing what is considered "gifted," you are diluting the program. AAP centers are now mainstreamed so the "average" child has a place to learn. The "base" classes are geared toward those with IEPs and LDs/EDs. The gifted child? Once again forgotten. Shame.

I'm sorry but I have one AAP and one not and I have to say, the one who is not (but is not LD/ED, tests around the 80th -85th percentile) is the one who loses out. That child sits through mind numbing worksheets and waits around for the bottom of the class to catch up. My AAP kid has a challenging curriculum and fun activities. Seriously. You have to stop with the whinging about the AAP kids getting the shaft. The kids getting the shaft are the bright but non-AAP kids who are in totally dumbed down classes because the top kids are skimmed off. The kids who seem to be essentially written off by FCPS because they will pass the SOLS so there is no need to spend time on them, but they are not "gifted."

I agree! Those "average"/not quite "gifted" children in the "base"/GE classes are also getting messed over. If they are meeting requirements for the SOLs, nobody seems to care that they are not learning. The focus is on getting those children with special needs up to "average" regardless of how that affects the rest of the class. That results in "average" children's parents appealing to get into AAP (allowed, more every year), which results in a dilution of that program. Those with IEPs win.

Did you actually say 'those with IEPs win? O.M.G. You couldn't be further from the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anytime you talk about changing what is considered "gifted," you are diluting the program. AAP centers are now mainstreamed so the "average" child has a place to learn. The "base" classes are geared toward those with IEPs and LDs/EDs. The gifted child? Once again forgotten. Shame.

I'm sorry but I have one AAP and one not and I have to say, the one who is not (but is not LD/ED, tests around the 80th -85th percentile) is the one who loses out. That child sits through mind numbing worksheets and waits around for the bottom of the class to catch up. My AAP kid has a challenging curriculum and fun activities. Seriously. You have to stop with the whinging about the AAP kids getting the shaft. The kids getting the shaft are the bright but non-AAP kids who are in totally dumbed down classes because the top kids are skimmed off. The kids who seem to be essentially written off by FCPS because they will pass the SOLS so there is no need to spend time on them, but they are not "gifted."

Thank you. Bravo. Gen Ed is full of forgotten kids who are very bright, but perhaps just missed the AAP cutoff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: Haycock mixing gen ed and aap - what is next English and Math? I agree in theory that it is good to mix kids...but in practice, how does a teacher meet all the needs of the children?

The same way they do in the Gen Ed classrooms where FCPS has eliminated ability grouping. My Gen Ed child is not with like ability peers for math. It's in the homeroom and somehow the teacher is expected to teach to the various levels. Is it possible? No, but that means a kid like mine falls farther behind while the AAP kids (who are only in the room with smart kids) get to be challenged and excel. Shouldn't everyone be challenged?

But, how is a AAP kid going to be challenged if your GE child is being catered to in the AAP program?

My GE kid is not in the AAP program. The point is that you are complaining about something that everyone else has to deal with already. We should be pushing for ability grouping for all, not just AAP. That might mean a non-AAP kid ends up in your AAP kid's math class because he or she might be accelerated in math but nothing else and keep up in the AAP math. Why should that child be held back in math because he or she didn't get a certain score on a random test on a random day? As it is now, the AAP kids get the challenge and everyone else is left in the dust.

Except many AAP children are not getting the challenge because so many in AAP programs are not qualified to be there under the original purposeful requirements.

I would not say many. I would say very few. Either way, there seem to be 2 groups of kids that are underserved: the extremely bright kids and the bright, but not quite bright enough for AAP. How do we work together to fix this. I want my not quite AAP child to be challenged in the same way that you want your top of the AAP pyramid kid to be challenged. What can we do to fix this broken system?]quote]

Two things: The AAP testing criteria (CogAt, NNAT, FxAt, etc.) need to be raised; as in much higher. That way, the really and truly gifted kids will get into a program that serves their needs and the bright, but not gifted, will remain in GE. And secondly, but just as important, the entire Gen Ed curriculum needs to be revised and improved. In this way, the GE classes won't be continually diminished as more and more bright-but-basically-average kids are moved into AAP. And AAP can go back to being a gifted program (which it currently isn't), serving those kids whose needs can't be met in a GE classroom. This was the original intent, was it not? What we have now, are center schools which are completely dominated by AAP classes, and the GE kids are a mere afterthought. The system is out of control.

[Anonymous]

My kids are in high school and college now, so elementary school was a few years ago, but I am surprised at how much it sounds like things have changed in the classrooms. I have experience with both a regular and a center school and in both of those schools, teachers divided kids up into ability based groupings for math and language arts on a regular basis, pretty much every day and for most of the day. The regular school, in particular, did a lot of team teaching where two classes were combined and then split up into smaller ability groups and work was assigned accordingly.

Are you all saying that teachers don't do this anymore? And that they are teaching every lesson in the same way to the entire class at the same time? I volunteered all through my children's elementary years and I never saw classrooms run this way.

[Anonymous]

But how are the Level IV Center services being delivered (as promised) through mixed AAP and General Ed classes?

The Center is program is more then what is being taught - it is how it is being taught (with a particular type of teacher), it is how the children synthesize the information, it is how questions are sparked and a deep understanding....if you are not with your peers this will all disappear.

How can the teacher go into the depth and breathe of the topics?

You may not see the differences so clearly in the 3rd grade, but you certainly see them in the higher grades. The level and expectation of learning is much more complex.

I agree, that we need to work together to make schools better for all. But I do not think the answer is teaching to the middle. Teach to ALL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: Haycock mixing gen ed and aap - what is next English and Math? I agree in theory that it is good to mix kids...but in practice, how does a teacher meet all the needs of the children?

The same way they do in the Gen Ed classrooms where FCPS has eliminated ability grouping. My Gen Ed child is not with like ability peers for math. It's in the homeroom and somehow the teacher is expected to teach to the various levels. Is it possible? No, but that means a kid like mine falls farther behind while the AAP kids (who are only in the room with smart kids) get to be challenged and excel. Shouldn't everyone be challenged?

But, how is a AAP kid going to be challenged if your GE child is being catered to in the AAP program?

My GE kid is not in the AAP program. The point is that you are complaining about something that everyone else has to deal with already. We should be pushing for ability grouping for all, not just AAP. That might mean a non-AAP kid ends up in your AAP kid's math class because he or she might be accelerated in math but nothing else and keep up in the AAP math. Why should that child be held back in math because he or she didn't get a certain score on a random test on a random day? As it is now, the AAP kids get the challenge and everyone else is left in the dust.

This. We have asked our center school countless times whether our GE student, who scored in the 99% in quantitative, could attend the AAP math class. The answer is always no. They cannot mix GE and AAP for math. It is incredibly frustrating to be told your child has to score higher in reading to have access to higher level math! Especially when your GE child has been receiving math pullouts since first grade and was always one of the best math students in the class. We're just getting private tutors and waiting until middle school when they have equal access to advanced education.

Which school is this? At our school (Mosby Woods) it is common for GE kids very strong in math to go to an AAP class for math only. I believe it is considered a level III service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: Haycock mixing gen ed and aap - what is next English and Math? I agree in theory that it is good to mix kids...but in practice, how does a teacher meet all the needs of the children?

The same way they do in the Gen Ed classrooms where FCPS has eliminated ability grouping. My Gen Ed child is not with like ability peers for math. It's in the homeroom and somehow the teacher is expected to teach to the various levels. Is it possible? No, but that means a kid like mine falls farther behind while the AAP kids (who are only in the room with smart kids) get to be challenged and excel. Shouldn't everyone be challenged?

But, how is a AAP kid going to be challenged if your GE child is being catered to in the AAP program?

My GE kid is not in the AAP program. The point is that you are complaining about something that everyone else has to deal with already. We should be pushing for ability grouping for all, not just AAP. That might mean a non-AAP kid ends up in your AAP kid's math class because he or she might be accelerated in math but nothing else and keep up in the AAP math. Why should that child be held back in math because he or she didn't get a certain score on a random test on a random day? As it is now, the AAP kids get the challenge and everyone else is left in the dust.

Oh , how I wish I knew. I completely agree .
Except many AAP children are not getting the challenge because so many in AAP programs are not qualified to be there under the original purposeful requirements.

I would not say many. I would say very few. Either way, there seem to be 2 groups of kids that are underserved: the extremely bright kids and the bright, but not quite bright enough for AAP. How do we work together to fix this. I want my not quite AAP child to be challenged in the same way that you want your top of the AAP pyramid kid to be challenged. What can we do to fix this broken system?

[Anonymous]

Oh how I wish I knew. I completely agree.

[Anonymous]

I thought the kids who just missed the cutoff were in LLIII programs. Why wouldn't that be enough for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the kids who just missed the cutoff were in LLIII programs. Why wouldn't that be enough for them?

They do not always get in LIII. Also, LIII is really nothing. It may be a couple pull outs here and there, depending on whether the school has a FT AART. My child is not in a center school, so I don;t know first hand, but I hear there is basically no LIII in center schools. It's not day-to-day challenge like level IV services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haycock is mixing social studies classes with AAP and Gen Ed kids just for current 3rd graders (rolling a plan out??)...not sure how the AAP are receiving Center services if they do this???

Top down - no community involvement...

The schools need to be more transparent.

They are also mixing science classes. The third grade team said the science and social studies is the same curriculum, so it is easier for them to team teach. With the GE/AAP division in the school, if the curriculum is the same they should mix more. It would help the atmosphere within the school if they didn't have a wall between GE and AAP students.

Haycock AAP parent here. I agree 100%. A lot of the drama around AAP is caused by the division within the schools. either they should be more integrated or they should have separate schools for AAP only. The Gen Ed parents should not be made to fee inferior or like their child is getting less than the AAP kids.

Third grade at Haycock has been doing this for years. At least 10 since my child attended. It's called workshops and my child loved the model. He was an AAP student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haycock is mixing social studies classes with AAP and Gen Ed kids just for current 3rd graders (rolling a plan out??)...not sure how the AAP are receiving Center services if they do this???

Top down - no community involvement...

The schools need to be more transparent.

They are also mixing science classes. The third grade team said the science and social studies is the same curriculum, so it is easier for them to team teach. With the GE/AAP division in the school, if the curriculum is the same they should mix more. It would help the atmosphere within the school if they didn't have a wall between GE and AAP students.

Haycock AAP parent here. I agree 100%. A lot of the drama around AAP is caused by the division within the schools. either they should be more integrated or they should have separate schools for AAP only. The Gen Ed parents should not be made to fee inferior or like their child is getting less than the AAP kids.

Third grade at Haycock has been doing this for years. At least 10 since my child attended. It's called workshops and my child loved the model. He was an AAP student.

Parent of a Haycock AAP 6th grader. I wonder if it changed since your child was there, PP. My child has done nothing (except Camp Highroad and I think specials this year) with the Gen Ed kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haycock is mixing social studies classes with AAP and Gen Ed kids just for current 3rd graders (rolling a plan out??)...not sure how the AAP are receiving Center services if they do this???

Top down - no community involvement...

The schools need to be more transparent.

They are also mixing science classes. The third grade team said the science and social studies is the same curriculum, so it is easier for them to team teach. With the GE/AAP division in the school, if the curriculum is the same they should mix more. It would help the atmosphere within the school if they didn't have a wall between GE and AAP students.

Haycock AAP parent here. I agree 100%. A lot of the drama around AAP is caused by the division within the schools. either they should be more integrated or they should have separate schools for AAP only. The Gen Ed parents should not be made to fee inferior or like their child is getting less than the AAP kids.

Third grade at Haycock has been doing this for years. At least 10 since my child attended. It's called workshops and my child loved the model. He was an AAP student.

I get the impression it is different this year, but maybe not. The kids are mixing for the workshops like they did in the past. The difference is that the entire science and social studies curriculums for GE and AAP are being team taught by the entire third grade team - GE and AAP. The students rotate through the teachers based on what sub-subject a class is learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My kids are in high school and college now, so elementary school was a few years ago, but I am surprised at how much it sounds like things have changed in the classrooms. I have experience with both a regular and a center school and in both of those schools, teachers divided kids up into ability based groupings for math and language arts on a regular basis, pretty much every day and for most of the day. The regular school, in particular, did a lot of team teaching where two classes were combined and then split up into smaller ability groups and work was assigned accordingly.

Are you all saying that teachers don't do this anymore? And that they are teaching every lesson in the same way to the entire class at the same time? I volunteered all through my children's elementary years and I never saw classrooms run this way.

I'm curious about this. Is the classroom experience changed that much from just a few years ago? Anyone have any insight into this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids are in high school and college now, so elementary school was a few years ago, but I am surprised at how much it sounds like things have changed in the classrooms. I have experience with both a regular and a center school and in both of those schools, teachers divided kids up into ability based groupings for math and language arts on a regular basis, pretty much every day and for most of the day. The regular school, in particular, did a lot of team teaching where two classes were combined and then split up into smaller ability groups and work was assigned accordingly.

Are you all saying that teachers don't do this anymore? And that they are teaching every lesson in the same way to the entire class at the same time? I volunteered all through my children's elementary years and I never saw classrooms run this way.

I'm curious about this. Is the classroom experience changed that much from just a few years ago? Anyone have any insight into this?

No, they are still flex-grouping for language arts and math. The upper flex group for math is on grade level ahead. The GE and AAP are taught separately. The change is in science and social studies, and its not really a change. The curriculum has always been the same. The GE and AAP teachers are just team teaching for these subjects. They have never provided different curriculums for SS and science. The difference was the in depth projects. They are now offering those projects to the GE as well. They are mixing the kids for some of these projects.