Walkability, house size, etc

[Anonymous]

Not PP but everyone in NYC who isn't poor uses grocery delivery now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do, however, walk my child to school every single day. Yes, even on a day like today - actually, ESPECIALLY on a day like today, because I like to laugh at the poor fools waiting half an hour in the insane carpool line. Meanwhile, I'm back and forth in 10 minutes.

Poor child. Has to be walked to school by a heliopter parent every day.

At least the extra 20 minutes give him or her more time to get high in the bathroom before class starts.

um, no. she's in first grade. In a couple years, I will let her walk herself to school. Which is one of the reasons we bought in our neighborhood, because she can easily walk to ES, MS and HS. They are all within half a mile of our house.

Our kid was a little annoyed at first when she figured out that there was no bus to school, but she got over it. She looks forward to her Girl Scout camp now in the summer where she gets to ride a bus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the immediate PP, but are you really disagreeing that the typical American dream is a big yard, big house, etc.? And why are you so quick to call names? Still a touchy subject for you or are you just that rude poster who likes to curse and call names without really proving any point?

I think there's a clear point, and that is that Americans who think that a brief jaunt overseas equips them to speak ill of other Americans in the third person and ridicule their preferences deserve to be called out as pretentious twits who need to grow up.

I don't know that there is a typical American dream. I always thought one of the good things about this country is that people could pursue their own dreams, whether that meant living in a big house or a city apartment. Too bad that you apparently think your tastes are so much better than those of other Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the immediate PP, but are you really disagreeing that the typical American dream is a big yard, big house, etc.? And why are you so quick to call names? Still a touchy subject for you or are you just that rude poster who likes to curse and call names without really proving any point?

I think there's a clear point, and that is that Americans who think that a brief jaunt overseas equips them to speak ill of other Americans in the third person and ridicule their preferences deserve to be called out as pretentious twits who need to grow up.

I don't know that there is a typical American dream. I always thought one of the good things about this country is that people could pursue their own dreams, whether that meant living in a big house or a city apartment. Too bad that you apparently think your tastes are so much better than those of other Americans.

It's in your head. Nobody was belittling the choice to live the 'American Dream'. In fact, this post started out attacking urban dwellers and calling their homes shit shacks. If the respo se you got was people defending their choices---well, what did you expect?

My time in Europe was an eye-opener. My European friends come over and rave about Target and our big fresh grocery stores. Sometimes we want to live the exact opposite of our childhood upbringing. In my case, I was in the suburbs for 18 years and lived moving to the city. My sister, on the other hand, had replicated our upbringing which was wonderful. I was the sister that went far away to college. She commuted from home. Different choices. Not better- just different.

Relax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's in your head. Nobody was belittling the choice to live the 'American Dream'. In fact, this post started out attacking urban dwellers and calling their homes shit shacks. If the respo se you got was people defending their choices---well, what did you expect?

My time in Europe was an eye-opener. My European friends come over and rave about Target and our big fresh grocery stores. Sometimes we want to live the exact opposite of our childhood upbringing. In my case, I was in the suburbs for 18 years and lived moving to the city. My sister, on the other hand, had replicated our upbringing which was wonderful. I was the sister that went far away to college. She commuted from home. Different choices. Not better- just different.

Relax.

You've mischaracterized the initial post on this thread, as well as the import of the prior post discussing the purported preferences of Americans for everything big. Obviously, people learn things when they travel about their own preferences and those of others. However, one need not to go Europe to learn some people prefer urban living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's in your head. Nobody was belittling the choice to live the 'American Dream'. In fact, this post started out attacking urban dwellers and calling their homes shit shacks. If the respo se you got was people defending their choices---well, what did you expect?

My time in Europe was an eye-opener. My European friends come over and rave about Target and our big fresh grocery stores. Sometimes we want to live the exact opposite of our childhood upbringing. In my case, I was in the suburbs for 18 years and lived moving to the city. My sister, on the other hand, had replicated our upbringing which was wonderful. I was the sister that went far away to college. She commuted from home. Different choices. Not better- just different.

Relax.

You've mischaracterized the initial post on this thread, as well as the import of the prior post discussing the purported preferences of Americans for everything big. Obviously, people learn things when they travel about their own preferences and those of others. However, one need not to go Europe to learn some people prefer urban living.

No. However, it is a way of life over there. There are no big shopping malls. Go to Vienna, Prague, Budapest, Munich, etc and you will be outside shopping for your clothes. It is strips and strips of walkable city centers. We don't really have anywhere in the US that replicates this. We don't have car-free city centers. Living in pre-war buildings and carrying your crap up 5 flights without an elevator or a lift so small that you can't even fit a suticase inside is different. I worked out less, drank more beer and lost 15 pounds (and I wans't big to begin with) living that lifestyle. There was also a sociability factor. People don't drive into their driveways at 6pm and stay in for the night. MMaybe because they don't have Costoc or big fridges or storage space they get together a lot more frequently---at least where I was. Now--that could be why there is a crisis in Europe right now..

So yes-- unless you have lived abroad for an extensive amount of time (and with kids!) you don't get it from your big Engagment trip to Paris...

[Anonymous]

Ohhh... I'm totally on board with your urbanist agenda, PP, but you do know that there certainly are big shopping malls and Fairfax-style dullsville suburban developments all over Europe, right? Lots of Europeans live exactly the way you say they don't and are too stupid to miss their walkable city centers. The idiocy of rural and almost-rural life has claimed plenty of victims on both sides of the pond.

But "we don't care if it's walkable" PPs are irresponsible because we, as a society, pay a heavy political and environmental price for the subsidizing of the car culture and the fueling of their supersized homes and lifestyles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's in your head. Nobody was belittling the choice to live the 'American Dream'. In fact, this post started out attacking urban dwellers and calling their homes shit shacks. If the respo se you got was people defending their choices---well, what did you expect?

My time in Europe was an eye-opener. My European friends come over and rave about Target and our big fresh grocery stores. Sometimes we want to live the exact opposite of our childhood upbringing. In my case, I was in the suburbs for 18 years and lived moving to the city. My sister, on the other hand, had replicated our upbringing which was wonderful. I was the sister that went far away to college. She commuted from home. Different choices. Not better- just different.

Relax.

You've mischaracterized the initial post on this thread, as well as the import of the prior post discussing the purported preferences of Americans for everything big. Obviously, people learn things when they travel about their own preferences and those of others. However, one need not to go Europe to learn some people prefer urban living.

No. However, it is a way of life over there. There are no big shopping malls. Go to Vienna, Prague, Budapest, Munich, etc and you will be outside shopping for your clothes. It is strips and strips of walkable city centers. We don't really have anywhere in the US that replicates this. We don't have car-free city centers. Living in pre-war buildings and carrying your crap up 5 flights without an elevator or a lift so small that you can't even fit a suticase inside is different. I worked out less, drank more beer and lost 15 pounds (and I wans't big to begin with) living that lifestyle. There was also a sociability factor. People don't drive into their driveways at 6pm and stay in for the night. MMaybe because they don't have Costoc or big fridges or storage space they get together a lot more frequently---at least where I was. Now--that could be why there is a crisis in Europe right now..

So yes-- unless you have lived abroad for an extensive amount of time (and with kids!) you don't get it from your big Engagment trip to Paris...

You are obviously not acquainted with the reality of life in gasp! suburbs of Paris, London and Rome.

Do you think "Europe" consists exclusively of Harrods and its 1-mile radius? There's nothing else out there? Just men in smart linen suits nipping in and out of sidewalk cafes? No one has houses with garages in Europe? Or you've just never seen one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's in your head. Nobody was belittling the choice to live the 'American Dream'. In fact, this post started out attacking urban dwellers and calling their homes shit shacks. If the respo se you got was people defending their choices---well, what did you expect?

My time in Europe was an eye-opener. My European friends come over and rave about Target and our big fresh grocery stores. Sometimes we want to live the exact opposite of our childhood upbringing. In my case, I was in the suburbs for 18 years and lived moving to the city. My sister, on the other hand, had replicated our upbringing which was wonderful. I was the sister that went far away to college. She commuted from home. Different choices. Not better- just different.

Relax.

You've mischaracterized the initial post on this thread, as well as the import of the prior post discussing the purported preferences of Americans for everything big. Obviously, people learn things when they travel about their own preferences and those of others. However, one need not to go Europe to learn some people prefer urban living.

No. However, it is a way of life over there. There are no big shopping malls. Go to Vienna, Prague, Budapest, Munich, etc and you will be outside shopping for your clothes. It is strips and strips of walkable city centers. We don't really have anywhere in the US that replicates this. We don't have car-free city centers. Living in pre-war buildings and carrying your crap up 5 flights without an elevator or a lift so small that you can't even fit a suticase inside is different. I worked out less, drank more beer and lost 15 pounds (and I wans't big to begin with) living that lifestyle. There was also a sociability factor. People don't drive into their driveways at 6pm and stay in for the night. MMaybe because they don't have Costoc or big fridges or storage space they get together a lot more frequently---at least where I was. Now--that could be why there is a crisis in Europe right now..

So yes-- unless you have lived abroad for an extensive amount of time (and with kids!) you don't get it from your big Engagment trip to Paris...

Nothing that you are describing is unfamiliar to New Yorkers, except perhaps the car-free city centers (Bloomberg have done this to Times Square, which many long-time NYC residents hate, since it's turned Times Square into even more of an urban Disneyland for tourists).

Shopping malls are often called hypermarches in France. If you're lucky, parking is gratuit:

http://www.belle-epine.com/107-14767-Plan.php

You can thank communism and the Cold War for the delayed state of development in the Czech Republic and Hungary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ohhh... I'm totally on board with your urbanist agenda, PP, but you do know that there certainly are big shopping malls and Fairfax-style dullsville suburban developments all over Europe, right? Lots of Europeans live exactly the way you say they don't and are too stupid to miss their walkable city centers. The idiocy of rural and almost-rural life has claimed plenty of victims on both sides of the pond.

But "we don't care if it's walkable" PPs are irresponsible because we, as a society, pay a heavy political and environmental price for the subsidizing of the car culture and the fueling of their supersized homes and lifestyles.

What we don't care for is dimwits like you with a mind-boggling mix of idiocy and arrogance, presuming they can tell others how to live and judge them for following a model other than your preferred one. Who are you to decide what the right size is for my home and lifestyle?

Too bad you weren't born in the USSR, you'd fit right in.

[Anonymous]

They totally have suburban yuck in Hungary and the Czech Republic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They totally have suburban yuck in Hungary and the Czech Republic.

Suburban lifestyle is present and available in any European country. It's just that little American girls on their senior year trip don't get to see it. So they come back thinking "Europe" is about drinking coffee all day, sidewalk restaurants, wine at lunch and oh, "culture." Unfortunately, they continue to perpetuate the cliches while stateside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ohhh... I'm totally on board with your urbanist agenda, PP, but you do know that there certainly are big shopping malls and Fairfax-style dullsville suburban developments all over Europe, right? Lots of Europeans live exactly the way you say they don't and are too stupid to miss their walkable city centers. The idiocy of rural and almost-rural life has claimed plenty of victims on both sides of the pond.

But "we don't care if it's walkable" PPs are irresponsible because we, as a society, pay a heavy political and environmental price for the subsidizing of the car culture and the fueling of their supersized homes and lifestyles.

What we don't care for is dimwits like you with a mind-boggling mix of idiocy and arrogance, presuming they can tell others how to live and judge them for following a model other than your preferred one. Who are you to decide what the right size is for my home and lifestyle?

Too bad you weren't born in the USSR, you'd fit right in.

And who are you to demand that those of us living more responsibly continue to subsidize the resources you so thoughtlessly consume? Haven't enough Real 'Merkuns died so you can continue to count on cheap gas? Haven't enough scary-assed regimes been fueled by oil money? Hasn't enough environmental damage happened to our own country as the result of our efforts to "unlock" our own fossil fuel reserves?

What about the depletion of farmland as it gets converted to "subdivisions"?

And yes, the obesity epidemic, for which car culture is at least in large part to blame.

You say all this is your business alone, but we all share finite natural resources and communal economic resources. Face it, your lifestyle choices are no longer so dominant in this region that you can continue to live as you do without coming under some criticism. And certainly, the faster-rising value of District and sorta close housing stock confirms that perceptions of the desirability of a car-centric lifestyle are changing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They totally have suburban yuck in Hungary and the Czech Republic.

Suburban lifestyle is present and available in any European country. It's just that little American girls on their senior year trip don't get to see it. So they come back thinking "Europe" is about drinking coffee all day, sidewalk restaurants, wine at lunch and oh, "culture." Unfortunately, they continue to perpetuate the cliches while stateside.

Well no argument from me there. I don't see how Americans who have spent at least a few years in Europe as adults can fail to see that just like every place, it has its own problems and hypocrisies.

So let's not say that walkability matters because Europe is walkable and Europe is necessarily sooo much better because... Europe!

But the walkable lifestyle PP described is indeed a valid and responsible goal independent of it's having been imprecisely applied to non-specific "Europe".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They totally have suburban yuck in Hungary and the Czech Republic.

Suburban lifestyle is present and available in any European country. It's just that little American girls on their senior year trip don't get to see it. So they come back thinking "Europe" is about drinking coffee all day, sidewalk restaurants, wine at lunch and oh, "culture." Unfortunately, they continue to perpetuate the cliches while stateside.

Or maybe when we go over there TO WORK in our 20s and 30s...we live in the city! Who would have guessed?! That's where the work is, that's where the fun is.