The Other Virginia Colleges: VCU, ODU, GMU, CNU, UMW . . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're dreaming. % acceptance rate does not equate to "harder to get in." You would have to include the amount of applicants, which is information that is not provided.
If a school has 100 students, but only 100 students happened to apply, then it has a 100% acceptance rate. Does that mean it's a worse school? Of course not, it just means that it had fewer applicants.

Everyone and their brother applies to GMU (since it is a lot of people's "Safety School"). With all of those applicants, they have to say "no" to more people. That does not make it a "Better" school.

GMU is a factory with 1000s of applicants. I did 2 years at GMU and then tranferred to JMU. GMU is essentially a good community college.

I don't doubt that JMU is more fun than GMU, but the data that the other poster provided suggests that JMU gets more applications than GMU, and that both CNU and GMU are now more selective than JMU. This doesn't surprise me.

[Anonymous]

Wow. There is so much more to choosing a college than the brand name, the US News "ranking," and admissions statistics. We just finished looking closely at most of the State schools in Virginia for our senior who is starting in the fall. We didn't look at UVA or CWM because he didn't have the grades for those two and we didn't look at Tech or GMU because he wasn't interested.

So that left CNU, JMU, ODU, VCU, Radford, and Longwood. Each has its own very unique vibe, and plusses and minuses, but after considering them all (plus a few out-of-state) I'm so glad we live in Virginia and have so many affordable and quality choices. JMU, ODU and especially VCU are huge. Radford is medium-sized, and CNU and Longwood are small. The size of the school makes a huge difference. Both Radford and CNU have new dynamic leadership and are both making nice improvements.

For NoVa students. JMU and CNU seem to be the hardest to get into. ODU and VCU are next. And Radford and Longwood are the easiest. Radford seemed to have the fewest NoVa students of all of them.

VCU feels like a Drexel or NYU, urban and trendy. ODU is a little grittier. The buildings had a 1960s feel, but nice new dorms for freshmen. CNU has newer buildings and kind of a fresh feel. JMU seems to be where many who just missed UVA end up. We know a couple kids waitlisted at UVA who are going there. It has a suburban campus feeling and its only 2 hours from the beltway. Radford has a very "southern" feeling, very laid back and a beautiful campus.

As for academics, some schools are extra strong in certain programs; I'll leave those for you to research. But in general, we ended up convinced that all of them can provide a quality education to the motivated student. My Ivy spouse went in skeptical and was a tough sell, but emerged from this process reassured. By the way, we do have our doubts about some of the lesser known Virginia privates, but that's for another board.

The bottom line is, when the time comes, go look at each one you are seriously interested in. Go, if possible, when the schools are in session. It's really the best way to evaluate each school. And for goodness sake, don't rely on rumors, gossip, or worse, the US News "rankings."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. There is so much more to choosing a college than the brand name, the US News "ranking," and admissions statistics. We just finished looking closely at most of the State schools in Virginia for our senior who is starting in the fall. We didn't look at UVA or CWM because he didn't have the grades for those two and we didn't look at Tech or GMU because he wasn't interested.

So that left CNU, JMU, ODU, VCU, Radford, and Longwood. Each has its own very unique vibe, and plusses and minuses, but after considering them all (plus a few out-of-state) I'm so glad we live in Virginia and have so many affordable and quality choices. JMU, ODU and especially VCU are huge. Radford is medium-sized, and CNU and Longwood are small. The size of the school makes a huge difference. Both Radford and CNU have new dynamic leadership and are both making nice improvements.

For NoVa students. JMU and CNU seem to be the hardest to get into. ODU and VCU are next. And Radford and Longwood are the easiest. Radford seemed to have the fewest NoVa students of all of them.

VCU feels like a Drexel or NYU, urban and trendy. ODU is a little grittier. The buildings had a 1960s feel, but nice new dorms for freshmen. CNU has newer buildings and kind of a fresh feel. JMU seems to be where many who just missed UVA end up. We know a couple kids waitlisted at UVA who are going there. It has a suburban campus feeling and its only 2 hours from the beltway. Radford has a very "southern" feeling, very laid back and a beautiful campus.

As for academics, some schools are extra strong in certain programs; I'll leave those for you to research. But in general, we ended up convinced that all of them can provide a quality education to the motivated student. My Ivy spouse went in skeptical and was a tough sell, but emerged from this process reassured. By the way, we do have our doubts about some of the lesser known Virginia privates, but that's for another board.

The bottom line is, when the time comes, go look at each one you are seriously interested in. Go, if possible, when the schools are in session. It's really the best way to evaluate each school. And for goodness sake, don't rely on rumors, gossip, or worse, the US News "rankings."

Thanks! This is really helpful. Can I ask why UMW wasn't on your list?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But in general, we ended up convinced that all of them can provide a quality education to the motivated student.

I agree with this completely. It's a point that's often overlooked; for a motivated student the vast majority of schools will provide them the education they need.

[Anonymous]

Thanks! This is really helpful. Can I ask why UMW wasn't on your list?


Our DS considered UMW too close, so we never really looked at UMW. UMW has a reputation for emphasizing academic rigor and some students really like that.

[Anonymous]

I graduated from VCU in 2010, and was lucky to find a decent job right after graduation, which turned into a great career (Financial Analyst with a Fortune 500 company). I graduated with a 3.53 overall and a 3.73 in my majors (doubled in Finance and Real Estate), that being said, I am still stigmatized because of my VCU degree, particularly by graduates of top tier schools (UVA, W&M, UNC, UoR, etc...), and before landing my current position, potential employers. Maybe 10 years from now my degree might carry more weight (VCU is improving relatively quickly), but if I had to do it over again I would choose a different path. Community colleges offer guaranteed admissions programs to UVA or W&M, given you take the program's courses and maintain a high GPA, a 3.5 in most cases. You'll save money and end up with a degree from a top 40 university, which may open doors that VCU, GMU, JMU, or CNU could not. I know this is an unpopular choice with many high school graduates (I definitely did not want to go to community college), but it is a great alternative. Although, you do miss out on the freshman/sophomore social experience that were some of the best times of my life.

Bypassing the community college route, I would never select CNU over JMU or GMU. CNU was a community college not to long ago, but then a new president built a ton of new buildings and arbitrarily raised the admission requirements. Also, CNU is in Newport News (aka "Bad News"), a filthy suburban "city" where shopping malls are the most popular attractions. At least VCU and GMU offer urban perks and JMU offers beautiful mountains vistas.

Sorry for the ramble. See my ranking below.

1) JMU- Decent school, but doesn't really excel in a particular field of study except teaching. Safety school for kids applying to top 40 schools. Known for an excellent social scene (parties), because thats all you can do in a small mountain town. Graduates all seem to say good things about the school.

2) GMU- Founded in 1972 as a day college. Pretty much a safety school, and the only reason why it has grown so much is because of the basketball final four appearance (#1 up and coming national university). Also a popular social scene school.

3) VCU- Strong arts program, decent science programs due to Med School, top rated social work school, and top rated marketing grad school (Brand Center), but still a safety school for kids applying to VA Tech and JMU. Overloaded with hipsters that think they are much smarter than they really are. The school started off as a business day school in 1917 but then merged with a local med school which was founded in 1838. VCU keeps the 1838 date because it looks better on T-shirts. Regardless of how cool the t-shirts are, only 27% of the freshman graduate in 4 years.

4) CNU- Apparently they have become more selective and a few of their programs have received self proclaimed accolades, but I call BS on the freshman student body having an average high school GPA of 3.7-that would be a UVA or W&M GPA.... and thats their average. Who the hell would go to CNU over UVA? Unless they are giving out scholarships like crazy, which would explain why their endowment fund is only $16 million and they fired a large portion of the teaching staff. Also, the university was founded in 1960 as community college, so no one knows about it or where it is.

5) ODU- Kind of in a bad area, and the student body is pulled from that area. However, the school is improving and I have met some good people from ODU.

6)Longwood- Where country pot heads go, but better than Radford

6) Radford- If you kid has no real ambition and plans to drink his/her way through college, go here, but then again it's better than nothing. I have never met a Radford graduate in my professional career.

I don't know much about Mary Washington, other than it was "women only" not too long ago.

Take your kid to different schools, let him/her feel them out. Let him/her walk around campus with a friend so they can take in the students, the surroundings, and the mood. Im assuming you want to stay public and in-state with schools that are not as selective as UVA,W&M, or VT(rednecks). If so, these are your best choices.

Its somewhat difficult to compare colleges, some are regionally ranked and some are nationally ranked. Also, programs may be stronger or weaker between competing universities depending on the field.

Jesus Christ, I need to write a book.

[Anonymous]

You are uninformed about JMU, PP. Even in the 80's, the business school was developing a great name for itself, and recruiters from the large consulting firms and from major corporations were eagerly hiring Madison graduates. In the 2012 Businessweek rankings for undergraduate business schools, JMU's College of Business is ranked 32nd in the nation (compare to University of Maryland at 38 and VT at 52), and 12th among public universities in the nation. They also have an excellent job placement rate for business graduates. This is one reason the school has become such a popular option for VA students who aren't UVA material.

[Anonymous]

No, 2:09, you need to spend more time reading, and less time writing.

JMU, GMU and CNU all have become rather selective for NoVa students. VCU is more of a safety school for hipsters.

[Anonymous]

The 2:09 post does not reflect reality in the Virginia schools today at all. It's like a zombie post from the 1990s! GMU a safety school? Really? And VT is "rednecks?" The competiton to get into all of these schools especially from NoVA is much, much harder than it used to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Virginia students have a great choice of in-state options in VA, no matter what kind of student they are. If you aspire to move somewhere else in the country after obtaining a degree, the better-known schools might appeal to you more, but the reality of it is that after your first job or so, in most professions, where you obtained your degree doesn't really matter a great deal. I think there is too much worry about going to a school with a national reputation.

GMU, by the way, has made great strides in the past 10 years and is now becoming a very popular option, not only for VA students, but for those from MD.

I went to UMW (graduated in 05) and loved it. I'm not making 6 figures, but I chose an unmarketable major and made some not-great life choices after college. Out of my college friends, we're all pretty successful. Maybe not by DCUM standards (we're not BigLaw or anything), but one friend IS making 6 figures in the private sector, another is finishing up a PhD in molecular biology or something at UMD, another is a teacher running the GT program at a public VA high school. I keep in touch with people through Facebook, there are a few alumni in Boston and NYC making a decent living at interesting jobs, several overseas (UMW has one of the highest proportions of Peace Corps volunteers), there's one in DC that owns a restaurant. I lived in another state (not nearby) for several years and while UMW wasn't well-known, but a few people had heard of it. Job-wise, no one cared where my degree was from, just that I had one.

No one's making headlines, but people seem to be solid with decent, interesting careers. I haven't spoken with anyone who feels that UMW was a waste or who wished they went somewhere else. A few people did transfer out sophomore year, but UMW wasn't a good fit for them in various ways.

Of course, UMW attracts a different type of student than VT. There's no football or major sports, no Greek life, it's a small campus, the graduate school is separate and primarily commuter, etc. I loved not being one of 500 in a class, none of my classes were taught by grad students, I knew all of my professors and still keep in touch with a few. There also seemed to be a high proportion of military and state department kids, it was nice not being the only one who had lived and attended school overseas. I liked the small-community feel and the focus on academics (we partied, but everyone -in my circle at least- put classes and work first). I also really liked not graduating with 6 figures in loans.

It's not for everyone, I know other people want a big school with sports and the national recognition (my younger siblings did). I do think it's a decent choice though.

Another '05 grad here! Many many of my classmates are very successful (I've even been to his DC restaurant). I had a great college experience at UMW, where my upper-level classes were held around a conference table versus my husband's classes of 50-300 students at his school (big VA school). I consider myself successful as well but normal standards (not DCUM BigLaw standards) and I'm sure most on DCUM would write me off now as I've left the workforce to be home with my young kids (the horror!). Regardless, great experience, great education, no problems finding very decent post-graduated employment... and all on a small beautiful campus.

[Anonymous]

I agree that 2:09 is off-base. For one thing UMW has been co-ed for 30 years. It is one of two public liberal arts colleges in VA (the other is UVA-Wise) and it is part of the national COPLAC consortium (Council of Public Liberal Arts Colleges). I would send my kid to a COPLAC school any day - they are often outstanding.

Both GMU and JMU have a lot to offer now, especially in terms of undergraduate academics (and certainly not only in the field of teaching, at JMU). New Century College at GMU is truly impressive.

On the other hand, I wouldn't touch CNU with a ten foot pole. No quality, terrible area.

[Anonymous]

15:44 and 19:42, I'm assuming I insulted your alma mater or just NoVa universities in general, and I apologize for that, but unfortunately GMU is a safety school for many students applying to A-level universities, either in-state or out-of-state. Agreeably, competition has probably increased for students financially limited to in-state choices, but there is a gap between UVA/W&M and JMU, and JMU between GMU. And yes, there is a gap between VCU and GMU, but I still don't buy a 3.7 GPA high school student fist pumping an acceptance letter from CNU. But a "safety school" doesn't necessarily make you a "bad school". Is UVA or W&M a bad school because it's a safety school for individuals a shoe in for Harvard or Georgetown? I wouldn't of thought my drunken 2:09 AM post would cause so much drama with the NoVa peeps. Also, "VT (rednecks)" is a correct statement, and I cant stand their overrated football.

[Anonymous]

This ain't your grandpa's CNU. Our friends' daughter was indeed very excited to get into CNU and is there now. She had a 3.8 at her NoVA high school and was accepted at other schools. CNU is a different kind of school, but perfect for her. The school is very new and very small. Class sizes are smaller than at any other VA Public College and students really get to know the professors. This may not be for every one, but she loves it. Students live on campus all four years in beautiful new and spacious dorms. Almost all the buildings are new and the campus is nicely designed.
Granted the surrounding area isn't the best and CNU gets called the "Garden in the Ghetto" but the school itself is very safe. It's also notably conservative, which holds a lot of appeal for some kids.

And to the sometimes drunken poster, there isn't a straight-line US News-style ranking from best to worst of the VA schools, or any schools for that matter. Sure there are maybe 25 schools in the US that everybody is impressed with, but for the rest. Meh. Depends more on the kid and what they make of it.

And FWIW, out our son's high school had far more kids got rejected by GMU than JMU. His high school sent a large group to JMU but only a few, top students to GMU.

[Anonymous]

I guess if you want to isolate yourself on campus for all four years of college go to CNU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CNU has a really dynamic president right now who is doing a lot to court upper middle class families . He is a Washington and Lee alum and if you've been to visit both campuses, you will see that he is remaking CNU to look like W&L. Right now, it is still something of a no name school, but Elon was no name 15 years ago and has become more an more popular in the northeast and mid Atlantic becaue of active marketing and courting of that population. I suspect CNU will have a similar trajectory.

Former Senator, Paul Trible (CNU President) attended Hamden-Sydney for undergrad. A private, men-only college for the C+ kids from my private high school. He went to law school at W&L, most likely due to connections. His son, also named Paul Trible, attended W&L and Oxford as well, most likely due to connections, and now owns a failing high-end clothing store in Richmond, VA. Where you attend school means nothing, it's how you apply yourself in the real world.