What is your first choice bilingual program?

[Anonymous]

What kind of parent allows their child to struggle without getting assistance or finding a more appropriate school


I do not know these parents, but you assume an awful lot about these parents. What do you really know of them, except perhaps your own prejudgment prejudices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What kind of parent allows their child to struggle without getting assistance or finding a more appropriate school


I do not know these parents, but you assume an awful lot about these parents. What do you really know of them, except perhaps your own prejudgment prejudices.

Assumed facts:
1. Kid is in an intense bilingual program.
2. Kid is struggling with English.
3. Parents keep kids in difficult program specializing in a luxury language instead of concentrating on improving English.

I love bilingual education, but in this scenario, the patents are risking the child's future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What kind of parent allows their child to struggle without getting assistance or finding a more appropriate school


I do not know these parents, but you assume an awful lot about these parents. What do you really know of them, except perhaps your own prejudgment prejudices.

How do you know what the parents are doing to help thier child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real problem is that some parents picked the school because they were having trouble where they were and needed a fresh start. They just wanted a new school - any new school - where their child wasn't already emerging as a problem, right? This is to be expected with a brand new school (which it was then), but still a shame for everyone. There are some kids in the 3rd grade with scholastic - and disciplinary/behavioral - challenges that are significant enough, that their parents had to move them after Kindergarten. Think about that. (You just don't see that combination in the other grades, where parents conscientiously chose the school and had to seek it out and get lucky to even get in!)

Yu Ying is a very academically rigorous school. Students with lots of innate ability will thrive there, probably more so than they would in any environment other than an exclusive private (which can sort by ability in their admissions process). Students who would struggle in most environments will probably struggle even more at Yu Ying.

Apparently it's politically incorrect or even offensive to point out the obvious in examples such as this. We're all supposed to pretend that despite wide variations in our inherent abilities and access to resources, everyone can achieve the same level of success at any given endeavor. Bell curves, shmell curves. Is there any real world evidence for this? Do we honestly expect everyone to play music at the same level, even if they've had music education? Could you have been Mozart, if only your father had started you on the violin at age 3? Do we expect everyone to be a gifted athlete just because they've had a good coach? Would you have been Wayne Gretzky if only you'd grown up in Canada with an ice rink your backyard? Is there no such thing as natural ability or aptitude? Or limits? If you only had the right photographer and wardrobe, would you look like Gisele Bundchen? Are intellectual gifts fundamentally different from musical or athletic or physically beautiful ones?

Parents should really know their children and make more thoughtful decisions about their futures, and getting a good educational fit is an enormous part of that. Just because this conforms to your educational skills and goals, doesn't mean it does so for your child. Just because it's a convenient school for you doesn't make it a good school for your child. Doesn't it make sense that if you can't be bothered to make an effort to learn some Chinese, and seek out opportunities to support your child's acquisition of a second language, then this educational model may not ultimately be successful for your child?

It sounds like a few parents enrolled their kids at Yu Ying (in the first grade, in the school's first year) because they were already having trouble in their existing Kindergarten school. (Were they asked to leave? Were they already struggling?) And they went into the "front line" experimental class with a deficit of skills. They're having trouble reading English and their parents don't care enough get them extra help? What kind of parent relies strictly on the school for success? What kind of parent allows their child to struggle without getting assistance or finding a more appropriate school? If these kids can't read in English, why would anyone expect them to read Chinese?

Mandarin is an incredibly difficult language to read, which is why millions of Chinese have been illiterate peasants for a few thousand years (even in the absence of the testing constraints of NCLB).

(And as long as I'm going to hell, aren't these probably the same boys who had a bullying problem at the beginning of [i]last year[/i], and caused a couple of girls to leave?)

Yes there were a few boys that were having problems last year. The funny thing is those boys are above grade level in reading and math. Remember 1/5 or 20% is not a big number, that is about 8 or 9 kids in the 3rd grade class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What kind of parent allows their child to struggle without getting assistance or finding a more appropriate school


I do not know these parents, but you assume an awful lot about these parents. What do you really know of them, except perhaps your own prejudgment prejudices.

How do you know what the parents are doing to help thier child?

We know that they're allowing them to spend half their instructional week in Chinese.

See this perfect summary by another PP, above:

Assumed facts:
1. Kid is in an intense bilingual program.
2. Kid is struggling with English.
3. Parents keep kids in difficult program specializing in a luxury language instead of concentrating on improving English.

We know they've decided not to prioritize English, to the point that the school has to do it for them.

Looks like we know a lot, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real problem is that some parents picked the school because they were having trouble where they were and needed a fresh start. They just wanted a new school - any new school - where their child wasn't already emerging as a problem, right? This is to be expected with a brand new school (which it was then), but still a shame for everyone. There are some kids in the 3rd grade with scholastic - and disciplinary/behavioral - challenges that are significant enough, that their parents had to move them after Kindergarten. Think about that. (You just don't see that combination in the other grades, where parents conscientiously chose the school and had to seek it out and get lucky to even get in!)

Yu Ying is a very academically rigorous school. Students with lots of innate ability will thrive there, probably more so than they would in any environment other than an exclusive private (which can sort by ability in their admissions process). Students who would struggle in most environments will probably struggle even more at Yu Ying.

Apparently it's politically incorrect or even offensive to point out the obvious in examples such as this. We're all supposed to pretend that despite wide variations in our inherent abilities and access to resources, everyone can achieve the same level of success at any given endeavor. Bell curves, shmell curves. Is there any real world evidence for this? Do we honestly expect everyone to play music at the same level, even if they've had music education? Could you have been Mozart, if only your father had started you on the violin at age 3? Do we expect everyone to be a gifted athlete just because they've had a good coach? Would you have been Wayne Gretzky if only you'd grown up in Canada with an ice rink your backyard? Is there no such thing as natural ability or aptitude? Or limits? If you only had the right photographer and wardrobe, would you look like Gisele Bundchen? Are intellectual gifts fundamentally different from musical or athletic or physically beautiful ones?

Parents should really know their children and make more thoughtful decisions about their futures, and getting a good educational fit is an enormous part of that. Just because this conforms to your educational skills and goals, doesn't mean it does so for your child. Just because it's a convenient school for you doesn't make it a good school for your child. Doesn't it make sense that if you can't be bothered to make an effort to learn some Chinese, and seek out opportunities to support your child's acquisition of a second language, then this educational model may not ultimately be successful for your child?

It sounds like a few parents enrolled their kids at Yu Ying (in the first grade, in the school's first year) because they were already having trouble in their existing Kindergarten school. (Were they asked to leave? Were they already struggling?) And they went into the "front line" experimental class with a deficit of skills. They're having trouble reading English and their parents don't care enough get them extra help? What kind of parent relies strictly on the school for success? What kind of parent allows their child to struggle without getting assistance or finding a more appropriate school? If these kids can't read in English, why would anyone expect them to read Chinese?

Mandarin is an incredibly difficult language to read, which is why millions of Chinese have been illiterate peasants for a few thousand years (even in the absence of the testing constraints of NCLB).

(And as long as I'm going to hell, aren't these probably the same boys who had a bullying problem at the beginning of last year, and caused a couple of girls to leave?)

For the record their are children there that don't read well in English, but are doing very well in Chinese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a previous poster hit it head on--if my child was struggling in a school where they are only getting half the English instruction in reading they would in any other setting, my first response would be to increase their English instruction. This isn't specific to Yu Ying, this is specific to all bilingual schools in DC. I think someone previous posted that all children deserve a bilingual education--Why? I believe all children deserve an excellent education, but for them to function in the United States they need to write in English, speak in English, and do Math.

For all the other bilingual schools in DC--what is the strategy for a Native English speaker if they consistently show no improvement in English/Math?

Chinese is a luxury. English is a necessity. Just ask the after-hours minimum-wage custodial staff in your office building (if you know enough Spanish to finesse the question).

Do you think they're doing those dead-end jobs for low pay, no prestige, and far from their native land, so that their children can learn anything other than how to succeed as an English-literate American?

I'm no education expert, but I suspect the issue for these students is not that they need double the time getting educated in English at the expense of Chinese. These students need special education help and apparently Yu Ying is not giving it to them. And, their solution to the problem sounds like a recipe for forcing those kids out of the school eventually.

[Anonymous]

"Yu Ying is a very academically rigorous school."

I think YY parents really want to believe this and you might be able to make the case for the Chinese, but there is nothing special about the English instruction.

The fact that there are inexperienced teachers imparting this instruction doesn't even seem to be a discussion point here, but it's a huge issue.

I can see having trouble getting experienced Chinese teachers, but why is the English faculty so young and so lacking in teaching experience?

[Anonymous]

Yu Ying is rigorous, compared to to English only schools, due to the structure of the program, which requires the english teachers to teach the same english content in HALF THE TIME that others schools can devote. So it is not just the Chinese that is rigorous. And that is that is what some parents seem not to understand. Many parents inquire about how to support their kids in learning Chinese. What they should concern themselves with, especially since the school assumes parents won't be able to help with Chinese, is making sure their kids can keep up with ENGLISH in HALF the time. Are they reading with their kids in English enough?
Also, my child attends the school. My understanding is that the school is only proposing the modified model for kids who are still signicantly at risk, despite the school's intensive interentions of at least two years, booster groups, arent consultations, etc. Ultimately, though the school is an immersion school., it has to do right by the kids for whomm immersion is not right and whose parents haven't taken approropriate action (moving to a non-immersion program).

[Anonymous]

If the teaching and intervention is done by first year teachers it is likely ineffective. It sounds like some people are blaming the students for a staffing weakness. You could also attribute the behavior issues to a lack of classroom management experience by adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the teaching and intervention is done by first year teachers it is likely ineffective. It sounds like some people are blaming the students for a staffing weakness. You could also attribute the behavior issues to a lack of classroom management experience by adults.

The teaching is not done by first year teachers. The intervention is done by special education teachers. It sounds like you're not even at the school, so I'm not sure why you're volunteering your uninformed opinion here.

Why parents would leave students who are struggling in English in an immersion school makes absolutely no sense. This model just isn't for everyone. Another poster had it right with the point that we all have different strengths and abilities. Kids who are going to struggle in an English-only environment are going to struggle even more in language immersion.

[Anonymous]

[quote=AnonymousI can see having trouble getting experienced Chinese teachers, but why is the English faculty so young and so lacking in teaching experience?


Name me a charter school in the 4th year of existence that has experienced, older teaching faculty, in any language. Young, inexperienced, enthusiastic, is the definition of faculty in charter school start ups. Friends at EL Haynes, and the early years of Cap City report the same faculty profile. Frequently also uncertified.

[Anonymous]

Are these Chinese students struggling in English, or are these native language English students?

[Anonymous]

PP, why would you think there were "chinese students" at a DC public school with a lottery for entry? How many chinese kids with little english would win the YY lottery and enroll?

[Anonymous]

Well, one would think that Yu Ying would attract Native Chinese-speaking parents of , being as their original location was so close to Chinatown and all, and being as they stated in a previous post that Chinese parents were happy with the program. If they are NOT attracting native Chinese speakers, I would think that would be a problem, non?