Less socially adept admitted students at Duke?

[Anonymous]

Duke undergrads now barely fill up a quarter of the bleacher seats at Cameron. More grad students and Iron Duke donors.

[Anonymous]

We just returned from an accepted students day at Davidson and it’s one of the few schools I’ve seen that still has really outgoing, bright “work hard, play hard” kids. Maybe it’s the new 90s Duke! Kids were eating meals with friends, rather than eating alone with headphones and scrolling on their phones, which was the norm at several schools we visited.

[Anonymous]

Davidson is a nice SLAC but nowhere near the Duke of the 90s. It is the Colby of North Carolina. If they get 2000 people at a football game it’s an outlier. Also Davidson has a very close relationship with Presbyterian Church- used to be requirement for President and a quota on non- Presbyterians on Board of Trustees.

[Anonymous]

Duke is still popular with kids in the Southeast but Vanderbilt is catching up. The kids I’ve known who’ve gone to Duke have been mostly well-rounded “mainstream” kids who excelled in a few areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Terry Sanford would not be happy.

And Reynolds Price would be thrilled - he was the one whining in the 90s about how anti-intellectual Duke was.

I am an alum. I have several close Duke friends whose kids are there now. The consensus is that it is a lot more intense, stressful, focused on academics, less time for fun and happiness. This includes kids who are not pre-professional - pre-professional kids have it the worst. Their kids are glad they went to Duke and definitely have time for fun but not nearly as much as we did. And it's not like Duke was a non-academic party school back in the day. But it truly was work hard, play hard. And the work hard was in a very low key way - we all worked hard but we didn't wear it on our sleeves.

The problem is that I think this is happening at a lot of other top academic schools as well. It is just more extreme and noticeable at Duke because it was starting from a more balanced place.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Duke at $11.6 billion in beginning of 2025 is at number 11. UTexas system, UMichigan, and UPenn are slightly higher but their enrollment is multiple times larger than Duke. Michigan has 33k undergrads, Penn 10k and Duke at 6,800. The change in the vibe on campus has alienated lots of grads and development office privately acknowledges that trend. Same if not more noticeable at Princeton, Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale. Notre Dame is a powerhouse at $20 billion and benefits as other top Catholic schools Holy Cross from a more homogeneous, continual demographic (wealthy Catholic families).

The vibe on campus becoming more academically intense, highly driven is a trend across most of the ivies more than it is at Duke. It is not new. The shift began around 2012.

True. But Duke used to be different (more social) than the rest of the T10. It was part of what made it special.

But the article OP linked to above makes it clear that Duke no longer prioritizes the social skills and enthusiasm that made it desired compared to its academic peers.

At least it has good weather and Nina King running a a successful athletics department. Otherwise, it may as well be Cornell (shudder) or Penn (minus Philly and the easy access to NYC) .

Not things top students target.

Not true.

Top students myst choose between T10 schools with equally extraordinary academic opportunities and post-graduation outcomes. Some choose strictly by the rankings. Others choose based on geography. And yes, some DO consider life outside the classroom as the tie-breaker.

This is where Duke used to be special.

The student social life at Duke was different than the rest of the T10 - kids were brilliant, driven AND social.

That said, my reference above (“at least” Duke still has good athletics and weather) was meant to be snarky.

As an alum, I’m genuinely disappointed that Duke has deprioritized strong social skills when choosing among equally brilliant kids.

So much of a college education takes place outside the classroom. And as a bonus, those social bonds in college become professional networks that last for decades. (DH and I continue to tap into our college networks for advice and connections for our children.)

Bottom line: Kids who are less able to connect with their peers detract from the overall academic experience.

Duke’s value proposition USED TO BE that it was full of “serious students” with strong social skills who knew how to connect with and enrich each other. Sad that they are now choosing a different path.

Perfectly said. Unfortunately the striver “merit” crowd doesn’t understand that having strong, mainstream social skills and being really smart are not mutually exclusive. Duke students were super smart but didn’t feel the need to advertise it as much as kids at other schools, and also well socialized.

I went to Duke a bit on the nerdy, awkward side, but with plenty of friends, interested in sports, concerts, etc. Four years at Duke in the 90s helped to make me more outgoing, confident, and better able to function in corporate America. I have been told repeatedly that Duke alums do well because not only are they smart but they are also fun, nice, interesting people to work with. Which is particularly relevant in client facing roles. And again, this was not just rich white people - it applied to all types of people from Duke.

Preparing to be bashed again by the know it alls who will accuse me of various sins. Whatever.

Sorry but what exactly is nice about describing Duke students seen in a video as "not attractive at all"? In what warped world is that nice?

I agree that is a bit much. But even if you aren’t naturally attractive you can dress normally, act normally, etc. Control what you can control, These kids don’t do that.

This is an honest question, but it’s probably an IYKYK thing: what is wrong with the way the students are dressed? They seem dressed normally to me. Is it that they aren’t preppy? And for what it’s worth, I would consider at least four of the students in the video as conventionally attractive.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Duke at $11.6 billion in beginning of 2025 is at number 11. UTexas system, UMichigan, and UPenn are slightly higher but their enrollment is multiple times larger than Duke. Michigan has 33k undergrads, Penn 10k and Duke at 6,800. The change in the vibe on campus has alienated lots of grads and development office privately acknowledges that trend. Same if not more noticeable at Princeton, Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale. Notre Dame is a powerhouse at $20 billion and benefits as other top Catholic schools Holy Cross from a more homogeneous, continual demographic (wealthy Catholic families).

The vibe on campus becoming more academically intense, highly driven is a trend across most of the ivies more than it is at Duke. It is not new. The shift began around 2012.

True. But Duke used to be different (more social) than the rest of the T10. It was part of what made it special.

But the article OP linked to above makes it clear that Duke no longer prioritizes the social skills and enthusiasm that made it desired compared to its academic peers.

At least it has good weather and Nina King running a a successful athletics department. Otherwise, it may as well be Cornell (shudder) or Penn (minus Philly and the easy access to NYC) .

Not things top students target.

Not true.

Top students myst choose between T10 schools with equally extraordinary academic opportunities and post-graduation outcomes. Some choose strictly by the rankings. Others choose based on geography. And yes, some DO consider life outside the classroom as the tie-breaker.

This is where Duke used to be special.

The student social life at Duke was different than the rest of the T10 - kids were brilliant, driven AND social.

That said, my reference above (“at least” Duke still has good athletics and weather) was meant to be snarky.

As an alum, I’m genuinely disappointed that Duke has deprioritized strong social skills when choosing among equally brilliant kids.

So much of a college education takes place outside the classroom. And as a bonus, those social bonds in college become professional networks that last for decades. (DH and I continue to tap into our college networks for advice and connections for our children.)

Bottom line: Kids who are less able to connect with their peers detract from the overall academic experience.

Duke’s value proposition USED TO BE that it was full of “serious students” with strong social skills who knew how to connect with and enrich each other. Sad that they are now choosing a different path.

Perfectly said. Unfortunately the striver “merit” crowd doesn’t understand that having strong, mainstream social skills and being really smart are not mutually exclusive. Duke students were super smart but didn’t feel the need to advertise it as much as kids at other schools, and also well socialized.

I went to Duke a bit on the nerdy, awkward side, but with plenty of friends, interested in sports, concerts, etc. Four years at Duke in the 90s helped to make me more outgoing, confident, and better able to function in corporate America. I have been told repeatedly that Duke alums do well because not only are they smart but they are also fun, nice, interesting people to work with. Which is particularly relevant in client facing roles. And again, this was not just rich white people - it applied to all types of people from Duke.

Preparing to be bashed again by the know it alls who will accuse me of various sins. Whatever.

Sorry but what exactly is nice about describing Duke students seen in a video as "not attractive at all"? In what warped world is that nice?

I agree that is a bit much. But even if you aren’t naturally attractive you can dress normally, act normally, etc. Control what you can control, These kids don’t do that.

This is an honest question, but it’s probably an IYKYK thing: what is wrong with the way the students are dressed? They seem dressed normally to me. Is it that they aren’t preppy? And for what it’s worth, I would consider at least four of the students in the video as conventionally attractive.

There is nothing wrong with the way the kids are dressed or how they look. This is what students look like unless you’re at a school with very little diversity. I would really like to see a video of all of you posting that these 19 year olds are unattractive.

[Anonymous]

Terry Sanford and Ken Pye made Duke into a powerhouse. Their successors brought in an Admissions Director from Penn. It was unfortunately predictable imo. Lots of unhappy grads and very little to do with whether kid got accepted or not. In our circle not one donor to annual fund.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Terry Sanford and Ken Pye made Duke into a powerhouse. Their successors brought in an Admissions Director from Penn. It was unfortunately predictable imo. Lots of unhappy grads and very little to do with whether kid got accepted or not. In our circle not one donor to annual fund.

Guttentag was fine early in his tenure - he started in the early 90s so grads starting around 1997 were his, and things were still fine then. Nan tried to make Duke boring but the school stayed fine despite her. It is maybe the last 5-10 years when things have gotten worse. I generally am a fan of President Price. And he is facing a lot of forces that are beyond his control. But he ultimately can be telling admissions who to bring in and that vision is not what most alumni want it to be. Let Duke be Duke. And if that hurts the stupid rankings somewhat, so be it.

Though interestingly, when I go to the big alumni events, I sometimes wonder what it is about Duke I loved. So many people I have no interest spending time with. Lots of phonies. I have a great, fairly large group of Duke friends spread around the country. But the people who show up at the events are almost universally not my type.

I am a consistent annual fund donor with a kid early in HS. I am as loyal as they come. But I do not like where the university is going and if we decide it isn't right for my child and/or Duke decides it isn't right for my child, I'm done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s amazing to hear the Duke grads from the 90s assume that their fellow alums who are critical of nerdy atmosphere are bitter because kids didn’t get accepted. Totally false. Most of my classmates turned down Ivies because didn’t want to go to one dimensional social climbing environments. Student attendance at Wallace Wade and even Cameron are a fraction of what it used to be. Reunion attendance for any class over 15 years is also down. Alumni giving rate used to be in the low 40s% is in low 20s and at that they fudge the numbers.

Reunion attendance and giving are usually won by either 25th or 30th reunion. You have no idea what you are talking about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s amazing to hear the Duke grads from the 90s assume that their fellow alums who are critical of nerdy atmosphere are bitter because kids didn’t get accepted. Totally false. Most of my classmates turned down Ivies because didn’t want to go to one dimensional social climbing environments. Student attendance at Wallace Wade and even Cameron are a fraction of what it used to be. Reunion attendance for any class over 15 years is also down. Alumni giving rate used to be in the low 40s% is in low 20s and at that they fudge the numbers.

Reunion attendance and giving are usually won by either 25th or 30th reunion. You have no idea what you are talking about

Yup - pretty sure 2001 won awards this weekend. That is the range where people have kids approaching college age so they are upping their game to help junior get in. I think Duke demands a greater level of sucking up from its alums than almost any other school. And that is saying something...

[Anonymous]

Watch a Duke football game on tv. Student attendance is horrible. Went to a reunion recently our class attendance was horrendous. Different vibe no longer giving.

[Anonymous]

Football attendance is actually surprisingly good, particularly compared to the past. Basketball, however, is weak - they rarely fill Cameron. If you live on West you can wander over there 10 minutes before tip, get decent seats, and it is two hours of your life. But they are too busy studying. What a miserable existence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s amazing to hear the Duke grads from the 90s assume that their fellow alums who are critical of nerdy atmosphere are bitter because kids didn’t get accepted. Totally false. Most of my classmates turned down Ivies because didn’t want to go to one dimensional social climbing environments. Student attendance at Wallace Wade and even Cameron are a fraction of what it used to be. Reunion attendance for any class over 15 years is also down. Alumni giving rate used to be in the low 40s% is in low 20s and at that they fudge the numbers.

Reunion attendance and giving are usually won by either 25th or 30th reunion. You have no idea what you are talking about

Yup - pretty sure 2001 won awards this weekend. That is the range where people have kids approaching college age so they are upping their game to help junior get in. I think Duke demands a greater level of sucking up from its alums than almost any other school. And that is saying something...

+1

Mid-six figures minimum to even have a chance that your alumni status matters for your DC’s admission.

Better if you gift at least that sum along with a commitment to double it over the four years your DC attends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much qualifies for the 100 golden tickets available to legacy? “children of Duke alumni who remain involved in the University through financial contributions or other investment” - asking for current hs junior

I was told by a board member at least $1M.