"free tuition for people making under $x" is problematic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I interpret these PR messages as referring to "income" below 200k, not assets. Are they talking about income or assets? I honestly don't know many people without property ownership at some level, which would keep them below 200k, especially in the NoVA area.

The advertisement is about 200k income with typical assets.

It's a bit misleading for families who are unfamiliar. People should be using the college's Net Price Calculator, period.

Wouldn't "typical assets" include a primary home? And home pricing is all location dependent. A house in NoVA (inside the beltway) is likely way less expensive than homes in other high priced areas, affluent suburbs of NYC, Seattle, Bay Area, LA ... Of course, if you have multiple homes or rental property, I get that difference. But not sure how your primary residence counts as an atypical asset, assuming you're not hoarding cash and just have retirement savings. I would think that a home in NoVA (inside Beltway) for $1.5M and an income under 200k would still qualify for "typical assets" under these programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If retiring early means my kids go to college for free, I’m in. So much of my after tax income will be going directly to tuition for the 3 years I will have both in school that I don’t think there’s a financial benefit to working.

I will run the numbers, but this is a serious consideration.

You need to really investigate the “typical assets” situation. I did retire early for reasons unrelated to college costs, bringing our HHI (at least at the moment) to just over $200k, and the NPCs are coming out at “lol! First deplete all your assets.”

Are you bitter for being rich?

DP here. Nobody wants to pay more than the next guy for the exact same product. Can you imagine if cars or houses had variable pricing based on income? This Honda Accord is $35k if you have a good salary, but don’t worry it’s free if you don’t.

This is a great way to explain this issue.

Agree 100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If retiring early means my kids go to college for free, I’m in. So much of my after tax income will be going directly to tuition for the 3 years I will have both in school that I don’t think there’s a financial benefit to working.

I will run the numbers, but this is a serious consideration.

You need to really investigate the “typical assets” situation. I did retire early for reasons unrelated to college costs, bringing our HHI (at least at the moment) to just over $200k, and the NPCs are coming out at “lol! First deplete all your assets.”

Obviously! If you have assets or income, why wouldn't they expect you to use it? Retiring early to get "FA for college" is really not a smart idea. It's akin to the, "well if I just never made more than $100K for the last 18 years, we wouldn't have any assets and we could possible get free tuition if my kid can get into one of the T25 schools that offers that. Nevermind that admission rates are single digits, let's shoot for that and hope"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m wondering what the real motivation is for some schools to do this.

Hopkins is doing it, right?

While I know one kid currently at Hopkins, I know a dozen who passed on the school because of its location (read: fear).

So is that why some schools are doing this? To attract smart kids who could go to pretty much any other school on a full ride?

I just wish someone could figure out how to make college more affordable. It’s all become ridiculously expensive.

They are doing it because they recognize that the people who benefit the most from attending a T25 school (and all the connections) tends to be those "without as much in life". The UMC+/wealthy kids will be fine even if they attend a school ranked 40-100 (or higher), they already have a huge advantage on most kids in life. But those who come from "lower income/first gen/etc" you can really make a huge difference in their lives. SO they want to also fill part of their class with highly qualified kids who will make a difference in the world, and otherwise might not go as far.

[Anonymous]

Lots of hiding assets going on. I know someone who runs a fairly successful college counseling/tutoring biz, and posted openly on a forum that her HHI is below $70k. Yeah no, that's your REPORTED income...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I interpret these PR messages as referring to "income" below 200k, not assets. Are they talking about income or assets? I honestly don't know many people without property ownership at some level, which would keep them below 200k, especially in the NoVA area.

The advertisement is about 200k income with typical assets.

It's a bit misleading for families who are unfamiliar. People should be using the college's Net Price Calculator, period.

Wouldn't "typical assets" include a primary home? And home pricing is all location dependent. A house in NoVA (inside the beltway) is likely way less expensive than homes in other high priced areas, affluent suburbs of NYC, Seattle, Bay Area, LA ... Of course, if you have multiple homes or rental property, I get that difference. But not sure how your primary residence counts as an atypical asset, assuming you're not hoarding cash and just have retirement savings. I would think that a home in NoVA (inside Beltway) for $1.5M and an income under 200k would still qualify for "typical assets" under these programs.

It's almost like financial aid is really complicated and colleges should require documentation to make sure they're giving money to the right people with the context of their situations considered.

Oh wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m wondering what the real motivation is for some schools to do this.

Hopkins is doing it, right?

While I know one kid currently at Hopkins, I know a dozen who passed on the school because of its location (read: fear).

So is that why some schools are doing this? To attract smart kids who could go to pretty much any other school on a full ride?

I just wish someone could figure out how to make college more affordable. It’s all become ridiculously expensive.

They are doing it because they recognize that the people who benefit the most from attending a T25 school (and all the connections) tends to be those "without as much in life". The UMC+/wealthy kids will be fine even if they attend a school ranked 40-100 (or higher), they already have a huge advantage on most kids in life. But those who come from "lower income/first gen/etc" you can really make a huge difference in their lives. SO they want to also fill part of their class with highly qualified kids who will make a difference in the world, and otherwise might not go as far.

But we aren't solely talking about those who come from lower income/first gen/etc.! These are kids who come from families making $200k. They don't come from nothing. Those kids are solidly middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m wondering what the real motivation is for some schools to do this.

Hopkins is doing it, right?

While I know one kid currently at Hopkins, I know a dozen who passed on the school because of its location (read: fear).

So is that why some schools are doing this? To attract smart kids who could go to pretty much any other school on a full ride?

I just wish someone could figure out how to make college more affordable. It’s all become ridiculously expensive.

They are doing it because they recognize that the people who benefit the most from attending a T25 school (and all the connections) tends to be those "without as much in life". The UMC+/wealthy kids will be fine even if they attend a school ranked 40-100 (or higher), they already have a huge advantage on most kids in life. But those who come from "lower income/first gen/etc" you can really make a huge difference in their lives. SO they want to also fill part of their class with highly qualified kids who will make a difference in the world, and otherwise might not go as far.

But we aren't solely talking about those who come from lower income/first gen/etc.! These are kids who come from families making $200k. They don't come from nothing. Those kids are solidly middle class

No, as has been explained several times in this thread, the solidly middle class families get knocked out by the small print about assets, even if their HHI is under $200k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of hiding assets going on. I know someone who runs a fairly successful college counseling/tutoring biz, and posted openly on a forum that her HHI is below $70k. Yeah no, that's your REPORTED income...

Not only that, but all of these headlines conveniently leave out that tuition is rising faster than inflation for everyone who doesn't qualify. Things that make you go hmmmm.

[Anonymous]

What's the "typical assets" for HHI $190k? How much???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of hiding assets going on. I know someone who runs a fairly successful college counseling/tutoring biz, and posted openly on a forum that her HHI is below $70k. Yeah no, that's your REPORTED income...

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if that was her real income. People with businesses like that are often working a lot less than full time. Often they are parents who started the business as a side gig while being the primary parent. Even it the business is successful and their rates are high, they may only be working 10-20 hours a week. If there's a tutoring side to it, mostly likely the are subcontracting out a lot of the tutoring work and just taking a cut for setting up and arranging clients -- the tutoring side may not be much of a revenue driver but can help get clients in the door for counseling and allows her to offer a more well rounded product.

I don't do college counseling but I'm a small business owner in a similar field who works part time so that I can parent the rest of the time, and I make anywhere from 30-60k annually. I make more in years where I am willing to work during family vacations and holidays (because you can't always choose when a client comes in or what their timeline is, and sometimes you sacrifice in order to get an extra payday). I've also had years where one of my kids needed a lot more of me and I just could not take on as many clients as I would have liked. I don't get any paid leave, including sick leave, I don't have a retirement plan, I have to pay quarterly taxes, and I have to keep my own books. Not complaining -- I am very fortunate to have a job like this because it allows me to be the parent I want to be while still bringing money into our household. But I'm not raking it in at all.

People always assume I make a ton of money because I'm well educated and some of my clients sound impressive. But even for one of my top clients with a big name, my payday is rarely more than 20k before overhead. And that's for like 9 months of work. I'm running a one-woman shop doing very specific work that people like to have but is not essential. It's not a cash cow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the "typical assets" for HHI $190k? How much???

It's so hard to tell on this forum, you need to look elsewhere. People here get mad that their 1.5m house is held against them as an atypical asset because "housing is expensive in the DMV." Meanwhile some of us live in condos worth less than 500k, also in the DMV. People here have a very skewed idea of what is "normal" because they tend to self-segregate to people with similar financial situations and don't realize that they are atypical.

[Anonymous]

Having 7 figures of home equity is NOT typical on a sub $200k income. It just isn't. Neither is millions in investments/stocks.

[Anonymous]

OP is setting up a false problem. Free tuition for those making under 200K does not mean that a family making 250K will not get any financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is setting up a false problem. Free tuition for those making under 200K does not mean that a family making 250K will not get any financial aid.

she didnt say that. she did say there are some people getting 25k aid off of 90 COA and deciding not to do it. And you can see the in the CDS. There are people at t10 schools paying under 20k all in a year and people who are full pay and really not a lot in btw.