Basis Charter School - Experience and Insight Requested

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Basis had destroyed lives and no one cares.

You are mentally ill.

Seek help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Half the kids at the high school near me are standing outside smoking pot in the middle of the school day. But, sure, let's focus on how BASIS, with some of the highest test scores in the city, is the real problem.

This.

The point about the many DCPS schools with frightening low CAPE scores is that *those tax-payee funded public schools are not meeting the needs of all kids* either. They definitely aren't meeting the needs of advanced students, and are they actually meeting the needs of average and high needs kids? What kind of future are they preparing them for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half the kids at the high school near me are standing outside smoking pot in the middle of the school day. But, sure, let's focus on how BASIS, with some of the highest test scores in the city, is the real problem.

This.

The point about the many DCPS schools with frightening low CAPE scores is that *those tax-payee funded public schools are not meeting the needs of all kids* either. They definitely aren't meeting the needs of advanced students, and are they actually meeting the needs of average and high needs kids? What kind of future are they preparing them for?

There is a very real stain of thinking that finds programming for advanced students as inherently inequitable and improper in an urban educational landscape. There really is no compromise on such a fundamental ideological fissure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Basis had destroyed lives and no one cares.

You are mentally ill.

Seek help.

Yes - until every urban child has a shot, you UMC types get nothing; you have enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BASIS DC only has 47 in the graduating class but here is a selection of colleges to which kids were admitted (some were admitted to more than one of these).

Per capita, no other public school in DC comes close to these results.

Bryn Mawr
Carnegie Mellon
Cornell
Dartmouth
Duke
Edinburgh
Elon
Emory
Georgetown
GW
Harvard
NYU
Northeastern
Northwestern
Oxford
Pomona
Smith
St. Andrews
Tufts
UC Berkeley
UPenn
U Mich
UT-Austin
UVA
Wesleyan
Wisconsin-Madison
Yale

If you kicked out all of the kids who aren’t in AP classes at the other high schools they’d have similar numbers.

BASIS does a good job on those 47, but the real advantage is shaking off the ones who aren’t top tier students.

It’s such a simple sleight of hand trick, it’s amazing that a school so famous for its math slips it by so many people.

You keep saying that. But here are a few questions for you:

Can you acknowledge that the curriculum at BASIS differs from DCPS? (Requires you to just take a cursory look at the required classes to know this is true, but if you saw the syllabus, as parents do, you would know it's dramatically different and BASIS teaches much more content).

Do you acknowledge that it's possible that the kids who survive BASIS might be learning more than they would have through DCPS?

Can you acknowledge that many of the kids who make it through 8th and then decide to leave for Walls or Private (about half the kids who start) were actually pretty well served by the middle school curriculum?

And now these 50 kids who make it all the way through to graduate -- yes, I agree that these 50 probably would have been successful anywhere. But maybe, just maybe, they actually like the curriculum at BASIS. Maybe they had opportunities there they wouldnt have had at a different school.

Yes - it looks like Basis is doing well by the kids that leave earlier for Walls, Banneker, and privates. Maybe they didn’t like Basis as an experience (or at least had their full of it), but they certainly landed well and compiled good enough academic records while at Basis, painful as it may have been.

Combined with the 1/3 of kids that make it all the way through, it’s quite likely that Basis does well by a strong majority of kids. Basis can’t really advertise (or defend) itself by its middle-to-HS school “exit” options but it does matter for families weighing it as an option.

None of this is necessarily to defend Basis as a model that should be supported by public tax dollars. I’m conflicted about that…

(P.S. - plenty of private school families hire tutors; same with TJ families.)

Anecdotally it is a stretch to say the kids who exit early have been well served. A good friends daughter was so discouraged and sad and anxiety ridden after her sophomore year - her older sibling graduated but was deeply unhappy. Of course some kids are happy and there are plenty of schools that are tough, it just seems like people forget how hard and discouraging it is for a lot of the kids who have to leave early - and no one plans that when they start. They really should market it more clearly - “it’s more likely than not, you will leave”

To be fair, they really do try to market it as an advanced and accelerated and very difficult curriculum. They say it many times in many different ways to prospective parents. It's often the parents fault for pushing their kids into a situation where they will fail.

It seems more productive - for the public and taxpayers - for them to be more selective in their admittance, or to replace the attrition with talented kids… but that business model isn’t attractive to the investors.

5-8th is cheaper to educate - you cast a wide net, boost your overall enrollment numbers to justify the value to taxpayers (saying you educate 400 middle schoolers and 45-55 high schoolers per grade gets more money than just educating 45-55 the whole eight years) but when it gets expensive, you winnow the numbers down to only the kids who were going to succeed anywhere and you declare that your method is genius. The enrollment is weighted towards the cheaper years, but the marketing focuses on the highly selected results.

Sleight of hand.

If it’s a legit system, get all the kids through or only take the 40 percent who are going to make it, or take 120 kids in fifth grade who can make it. If it’s a good system we should have no problem finding three times as many kids who can benefit, right?

The bolded is factually incorrect. The Arizona Basis schools will backfill with talented kids even into high school, as long as the kids pass a placement test. I know of kids who have entered Basis as late as 9th grade. The only reason Basis DC does not replace the attrition is that the DC laws do not allow for any placement testing. Your entire premise here is wrong.

[Anonymous]

DP- Then what about BASIS resorting to selective admission through GPA, interview and on-site essay similar to Walls or Banneker, and backfill rising 9th graders. That would provide additional opportunities for rising high schoolers, and ease off the competition with other selective high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP- Then what about BASIS resorting to selective admission through GPA, interview and on-site essay similar to Walls or Banneker, and backfill rising 9th graders. That would provide additional opportunities for rising high schoolers, and ease off the competition with other selective high schools.

DC law forbids that: " A public charter school may not limit enrollment on the basis of a student’s race, color, religion, national origin, language spoken, intellectual or athletic ability, measures of achievement or aptitude, or status as a student with special needs."

https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/code/sections/38-1802.06

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP- Then what about BASIS resorting to selective admission through GPA, interview and on-site essay similar to Walls or Banneker, and backfill rising 9th graders. That would provide additional opportunities for rising high schoolers, and ease off the competition with other selective high schools.

DC law forbids that: " A public charter school may not limit enrollment on the basis of a student’s race, color, religion, national origin, language spoken, intellectual or athletic ability, measures of achievement or aptitude, or status as a student with special needs."

https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/code/sections/38-1802.06

Yes -- to clarify even more specifically, DC charter schools operate under different rules than traditional public schools. DCPS can establish entrance criteria for certain schools -- tests, GPA, recommendations, etc. DC charter schools cannot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s put it this way 136 kids enroll as fifth graders and 63 enroll as seniors and they don’t replace kids who leave. So, statistically, this isn’t going to work out for you or most kids who enroll as fifth graders.

Everyone hopes for the best, the majority don’t work out. Maybe some people can give you anecdotal about whether the 45 percent who make it through are happy about it. Chances are, a good proportion are not.

This decrease in numbers is true. BUT. Think about it. It is over 8 years. Families have 7 years to opt out and go elsewhere for whatever reason. Check out your child's current school and grade level and ask yourself how many of these students in the current 4th grade class were here in Kindergarten? 15 out of 30? 12 out of 24? 10 out of 20? If it is 50% like BASIS, than there is no difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you can't get at BASIS, OP, are serious extra-curriculars your kid does with classmates. This didn't bother us in 5th grade, but really bothered my kids from around 7th grade. We were running all over town for lonely outside enrichment done with kids mine barely knew.

The sports at BASIS aren't too serious and there's obviously no theater for "theater," no music whatsoever, no kiln for pottery, no track for track, no greenhouse for gardening etc. etc.

I think the enrichment, clubs, sports etc aspect of a school are overrated. So what if BASIS doesn't have a kiln. It has sports and clubs. Mind you, there are only 450 students in grades 5 - 8 compared to 1,500 at Deal MS. It's a bit like parents saying DC is fabulous for what it has to offer but then never visit a museum, gallery or performance in more than a month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What public school in DC has a kiln and teaches pottery?

I don't think this is that outlandish. I am an elementary school teacher and our art classroom has a small kiln.

Eastern, Dunbar and Roosevelt have lovely buildings. Of course they are filled with kids who can't score at grade level on CAPE. But by all means let's focus on what matters.

100% true. I'm on your side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you can't get at BASIS, OP, are serious extra-curriculars your kid does with classmates. This didn't bother us in 5th grade, but really bothered my kids from around 7th grade. We were running all over town for lonely outside enrichment done with kids mine barely knew.

The sports at BASIS aren't too serious and there's obviously no theater for "theater," no music whatsoever, no kiln for pottery, no track for track, no greenhouse for gardening etc. etc.

I think the enrichment, clubs, sports etc aspect of a school are overrated. So what if BASIS doesn't have a kiln. It has sports and clubs. Mind you, there are only 450 students in grades 5 - 8 compared to 1,500 at Deal MS. It's a bit like parents saying DC is fabulous for what it has to offer but then never visit a museum, gallery or performance in more than a month.

And you've had kids at BASIS for how long? From where I sit, the problem with BASIS' weak ECs is that the set-up favors the UMC kids, and that's putting it mildly. You wind up paying through the nose for the ECs your kid probably needs to crack a highly competitive colleges. It can be a lonely, hectic journey because your student can't do serious high school ECs with classmates, at least not for sports, music, drama etc. You wind up rushing around the DMV as a family to fill in the gaps. Also, the way BASIS structures its curriculum doesn't leave much time for serious high school ECs, not when they're essentially cramming 3 years of HS into 4. We wound up leaving after 9th grade for our eldest, strong in STEM, because hated the arrangement. Sure, maybe ECs are overrated in the big picture, but that doesn't change the fact that colleges want to see them and kids really enjoy them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you can't get at BASIS, OP, are serious extra-curriculars your kid does with classmates. This didn't bother us in 5th grade, but really bothered my kids from around 7th grade. We were running all over town for lonely outside enrichment done with kids mine barely knew.

The sports at BASIS aren't too serious and there's obviously no theater for "theater," no music whatsoever, no kiln for pottery, no track for track, no greenhouse for gardening etc. etc.

I think the enrichment, clubs, sports etc aspect of a school are overrated. So what if BASIS doesn't have a kiln. It has sports and clubs. Mind you, there are only 450 students in grades 5 - 8 compared to 1,500 at Deal MS. It's a bit like parents saying DC is fabulous for what it has to offer but then never visit a museum, gallery or performance in more than a month.

And you've had kids at BASIS for how long? From where I sit, the problem with BASIS' weak ECs is that the set-up favors the UMC kids, and that's putting it mildly. You wind up paying through the nose for the ECs your kid probably needs to crack a highly competitive colleges. It can be a lonely, hectic journey because your student can't do serious high school ECs with classmates, at least not for sports, music, drama etc. You wind up rushing around the DMV as a family to fill in the gaps. Also, the way BASIS structures its curriculum doesn't leave much time for serious high school ECs, not when they're essentially cramming 3 years of HS into 4. We wound up leaving after 9th grade for our eldest, strong in STEM, because hated the arrangement. Sure, maybe ECs are overrated in the big picture, but that doesn't change the fact that colleges want to see them and kids really enjoy them.

NP but don’t most kids who do serious ECs do them outside of thr school anyway? Serious music kids do orchestra elsewhere, kids who want to play a sport in college often play on club or travel teams, etc.

[Anonymous]

a lot of the people who support advanced programming for middle and high school children are actually some of the same people who most dislike basis. basis run by a for-profit arizona charter is a relatively poor substitute for well-rounded programming for more advanced students. it also at a systemic level siphons kids off leaving a relatively weaker cohort behind at some of the neighborhood public schools reducing the pressure/need to offer more advanced programming at those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you can't get at BASIS, OP, are serious extra-curriculars your kid does with classmates. This didn't bother us in 5th grade, but really bothered my kids from around 7th grade. We were running all over town for lonely outside enrichment done with kids mine barely knew.

The sports at BASIS aren't too serious and there's obviously no theater for "theater," no music whatsoever, no kiln for pottery, no track for track, no greenhouse for gardening etc. etc.

I think the enrichment, clubs, sports etc aspect of a school are overrated. So what if BASIS doesn't have a kiln. It has sports and clubs. Mind you, there are only 450 students in grades 5 - 8 compared to 1,500 at Deal MS. It's a bit like parents saying DC is fabulous for what it has to offer but then never visit a museum, gallery or performance in more than a month.

And you've had kids at BASIS for how long? From where I sit, the problem with BASIS' weak ECs is that the set-up favors the UMC kids, and that's putting it mildly. You wind up paying through the nose for the ECs your kid probably needs to crack a highly competitive colleges. It can be a lonely, hectic journey because your student can't do serious high school ECs with classmates, at least not for sports, music, drama etc. You wind up rushing around the DMV as a family to fill in the gaps. Also, the way BASIS structures its curriculum doesn't leave much time for serious high school ECs, not when they're essentially cramming 3 years of HS into 4. We wound up leaving after 9th grade for our eldest, strong in STEM, because hated the arrangement. Sure, maybe ECs are overrated in the big picture, but that doesn't change the fact that colleges want to see them and kids really enjoy them.

NP but don’t most kids who do serious ECs do them outside of thr school anyway? Serious music kids do orchestra elsewhere, kids who want to play a sport in college often play on club or travel teams, etc.

Totally this.