How can sensible, educated people be religious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can people who understand basic science also believe that there is a god in heaven protecting them and that they will live there forever after they die here on earth?

Not all religions require a belief in a deity.

Unitarian Universalists, for instance.

Here we are discussing religions that have supernatural beliefs.

The question asked how can educated people be religious. Then the OP defined religious people as believing in the supernatural. That is an incorrect definition. Not all religious people believe in a deity or supernatural presence. UU is one of the smaller ones.

OP isn’t talking about UU. She’s referring to religions that have a belief in the supernatural.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can people who understand basic science also believe that there is a god in heaven protecting them and that they will live there forever after they die here on earth?

Not all religions require a belief in a deity.

Unitarian Universalists, for instance.

Here we are discussing religions that have supernatural beliefs.

The question asked how can educated people be religious. Then the OP defined religious people as believing in the supernatural. That is an incorrect definition. Not all religious people believe in a deity or supernatural presence. UU is one of the smaller ones.

OP here. UU's do not have to believe in the supernatural, but they can, if they like. I was once attended a UU service where the pastor acknowledged that she believed in God.

I also attended a UU meeting where a member was terribly hurt and became very defensive when she learned that others there did not believe in God.

Buddhism is another one. Same for Taoism.

Not too many Buddhists or Taoists in the US

There are significantly more Buddhists in the U.S. than there are UU in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can people who understand basic science also believe that there is a god in heaven protecting them and that they will live there forever after they die here on earth?

Not all religions require a belief in a deity.

Unitarian Universalists, for instance.

Here we are discussing religions that have supernatural beliefs.

The question asked how can educated people be religious. Then the OP defined religious people as believing in the supernatural. That is an incorrect definition. Not all religious people believe in a deity or supernatural presence. UU is one of the smaller ones.

OP here. UU's do not have to believe in the supernatural, but they can, if they like. I was once attended a UU service where the pastor acknowledged that she believed in God.

I also attended a UU meeting where a member was terribly hurt and became very defensive when she learned that others there did not believe in God.

Buddhism is another one. Same for Taoism.

Not too many Buddhists or Taoists in the US

There are significantly more Buddhists in the U.S. than there are UU in the world.

So what? this seems pointless

[Anonymous]

Most religions don't contradict science and education. In fact, some of the top universities are religiously affiliated. Also, there is no solid statistical proof that more educated people are less religious.

[Anonymous]

Short answer to your question:
Because sensible educated people know enough to realize what they don’t know and what cannot be explained through rational thought and reason. One of these is how to explain how order can come from chaos and nothingness. Educated reasonable people will concede that it cannot and does not.
And so therefor science has not found a rational explanation for the intricacies and order of the universe simply coming from nothing.
The created suggests that there must be a creator. And that is what we call God.
In the beginning, there was God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most religions don't contradict science and education. In fact, some of the top universities are religiously affiliated. Also, there is no solid statistical proof that more educated people are less religious.

If accurate, so what?

It doesn't mean that religion is accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Short answer to your question:
Because sensible educated people know enough to realize what they don’t know and what cannot be explained through rational thought and reason. One of these is how to explain how order can come from chaos and nothingness. Educated reasonable people will concede that it cannot and does not.
And so therefor science has not found a rational explanation for the intricacies and order of the universe simply coming from nothing.
The created suggests that there must be a creator. And that is what we call God.
In the beginning, there was God.

Therefore, humans made up stuff.

And this Creator that they made up, not only created the world, but sends them to heaven to live forever after they die! (depending on your religion, and if you've been good)

And this creator, just like the people that he created, had a multifaceted and changeable personality, so created numerous religions, based somehow on where people lived. Amazing! This creator is so much like his (His) own creation. It almost seems like He's all made up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Short answer to your question:
Because sensible educated people know enough to realize what they don’t know and what cannot be explained through rational thought and reason. One of these is how to explain how order can come from chaos and nothingness. Educated reasonable people will concede that it cannot and does not.
And so therefor science has not found a rational explanation for the intricacies and order of the universe simply coming from nothing.
The created suggests that there must be a creator. And that is what we call God.
In the beginning, there was God.

Therefore, humans made up stuff.

And this Creator that they made up, not only created the world, but sends them to heaven to live forever after they die! (depending on your religion, and if you've been good)

And this creator, just like the people that he created, had a multifaceted and changeable personality, so created numerous religions, based somehow on where people lived. Amazing! This creator is so much like his (His) own creation. It almost seems like He's all made up.

Nope.
Can’t earn your way into heaven.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by me.”
Christ already paid your debt and mine. Accept this gift of salvation and you will be saved despite the fact that we are ALL sinners not worthy of being in the presence of the creator and perfect God who loves us. We turn our backs on him daily. He is a just God, and we don’t deserve grace or mercy—and yet he provides exactly that through Christ’s sacrifice FOR us.

[Anonymous]

I don't feel like reading the whole thread, but I became a philosopher, psychologist, and anthropologist once I didn't have to work for money anymore. I could add religion at some point.
I had physically hard work before. No time to ponder about anything as I was tired as heck. I can see educated people not being physically tired and having enough money at some point, so they can concentrate on other things besides paying bills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can people who understand basic science also believe that there is a god in heaven protecting them and that they will live there forever after they die here on earth?

Not all religions require a belief in a deity.

Unitarian Universalists, for instance.

Here we are discussing religions that have supernatural beliefs.

The question asked how can educated people be religious. Then the OP defined religious people as believing in the supernatural. That is an incorrect definition. Not all religious people believe in a deity or supernatural presence. UU is one of the smaller ones.

OP isn’t talking about UU. She’s referring to religions that have a belief in the supernatural.

Look, some people believe that all that exists are things we humans can sense or test. Others believe that is a ridiculously human-centric opinion that a few minutes contemplating the nature of man will refute. Sensible, educated people can think beyond human senses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can people who understand basic science also believe that there is a god in heaven protecting them and that they will live there forever after they die here on earth?

Not all religions require a belief in a deity.

Unitarian Universalists, for instance.

Here we are discussing religions that have supernatural beliefs.

The question asked how can educated people be religious. Then the OP defined religious people as believing in the supernatural. That is an incorrect definition. Not all religious people believe in a deity or supernatural presence. UU is one of the smaller ones.

OP isn’t talking about UU. She’s referring to religions that have a belief in the supernatural.

Look, some people believe that all that exists are things we humans can sense or test. Others believe that is a ridiculously human-centric opinion that a few minutes contemplating the nature of man will refute. Sensible, educated people can think beyond human senses.

And some sensible, educated people make up God! A supreme being looking after us and granting us eternal life for those who
believe in him. Other sensible, educated people either never believe in such an entity or change their belief after thinking about how unlikely such an idea is.

People are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because most people, even highly educated ones, struggle with confronting the idea of death. Religion provides comforting stories that assuage those anxieties about our own mortality and the mortality of the ones we love.

For me, I find more comfort in the idea that there is no overarching meaning or plan or design than the thought that there is some megalomaniacal supernatural being demanding my worship or else I’ll be cast into hell.

But I understand needing the comfort of the stories. Life is hard and painful and completely unfair. It is also beautiful.

OP here -- thanks. This does somewhat explain how some intelligent people can be religious, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Even if people had our knowledge 2,000 years ago, maybe some of them still would have made up comforting stories and some of them would have believed the stories, just as they do today.

OP,
Your comment above intrigues me (“… despite all evidence to the contrary.”)

Frankly, I have yet to see any evidence that proves God doesn’t exist. If it’s out there, point me to it and I’ll reevaluate. If you’re going to say “science,” then count me among the many scientifically- inclined people who don’t see the two as mutually exclusive.

THere's no evidence out there to prove that leprechauns don't exist either, but I bet you don't believe in them. I don't blame you. Leprechauns are silly -- not like God, who gives you eternal life with him in heaven.

I haven’t really put much thought into leprechauns, certainly not as much as I have God. I’m willing to entertain it for the sake of this discussion and because I like to be thorough…

Yes, and you haven't given Leprechauns much thought with good reason - there's no evidence they are real.

That's the standard you apply to Leprechauns, and all other things - except one. The one you were indoctrinated in, coincidentally.

Actually, I wasn’t brought up in any church. I didn’t go to church until my 30s.

You assume I was indoctrinated because that’s easier for your argument… that I came to my faith in some easy, thoughtless way. Instead, I studied and read. I even read books disproving religion. (Again: I’m thorough.)

So your parents were not religious? You never went to church as a child?

In my opinion, it is STILL the power of indoctrination that does this. Religion is all around us, it is talked about, even people that were not indoctrinated as a child, such as the PP, would not have even thought to "study", or read particular books if religion didn't permeate the world the way it does. It is an easy explanation, even for those like PP who came to religion in their adulthood, however, the majority of the time the explanation is even easier...childhood indoctrination. Young children will believe whatever they are told. It doesn't have to be something that is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because most people, even highly educated ones, struggle with confronting the idea of death. Religion provides comforting stories that assuage those anxieties about our own mortality and the mortality of the ones we love.

For me, I find more comfort in the idea that there is no overarching meaning or plan or design than the thought that there is some megalomaniacal supernatural being demanding my worship or else I’ll be cast into hell.

But I understand needing the comfort of the stories. Life is hard and painful and completely unfair. It is also beautiful.

OP here -- thanks. This does somewhat explain how some intelligent people can be religious, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Even if people had our knowledge 2,000 years ago, maybe some of them still would have made up comforting stories and some of them would have believed the stories, just as they do today.

OP,
Your comment above intrigues me (“… despite all evidence to the contrary.”)

Frankly, I have yet to see any evidence that proves God doesn’t exist. If it’s out there, point me to it and I’ll reevaluate. If you’re going to say “science,” then count me among the many scientifically- inclined people who don’t see the two as mutually exclusive.

THere's no evidence out there to prove that leprechauns don't exist either, but I bet you don't believe in them. I don't blame you. Leprechauns are silly -- not like God, who gives you eternal life with him in heaven.

I haven’t really put much thought into leprechauns, certainly not as much as I have God. I’m willing to entertain it for the sake of this discussion and because I like to be thorough…

Yes, and you haven't given Leprechauns much thought with good reason - there's no evidence they are real.

That's the standard you apply to Leprechauns, and all other things - except one. The one you were indoctrinated in, coincidentally.

Actually, I wasn’t brought up in any church. I didn’t go to church until my 30s.

You assume I was indoctrinated because that’s easier for your argument… that I came to my faith in some easy, thoughtless way. Instead, I studied and read. I even read books disproving religion. (Again: I’m thorough.)

DP here. And I bet you love telling people that you studied and read your way to being religious. Because you are so intelligent and thorough, you think it makes your case for god belief stronger. Not in my opinion. It just makes you more prone to delusion. And IMO, you were indoctrinated: self-indoctrinated.

+1 million. I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't put it into words like you did. Self indoctrination is the concept I was struggling with, but believing in something that has zero evidence, or that just makes you feel good, is never a good thing.

[Anonymous]

I always wonder about people that believe that their god is so good, has created this loving world just for us, etc. I would love to take a survey of religious and non religious people and ask how THEY would have designed a world/people if they were god. would it look anything like this? Would it be on a rock that inherently contains features that will occasionally kill thousands or more, inhabited by beings that have such a drive for survival as to be cruel to one another and to other creatures on this planet, where 99.99% of species have already become extinct? I could go on, but I think you get my drift. Would this be anything like what a loving god would create? I'm an imperfect human and I can think of millions of better ways to design a world and beautiful creatures to inhabit it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder about people that believe that their god is so good, has created this loving world just for us, etc. I would love to take a survey of religious and non religious people and ask how THEY would have designed a world/people if they were god. would it look anything like this? Would it be on a rock that inherently contains features that will occasionally kill thousands or more, inhabited by beings that have such a drive for survival as to be cruel to one another and to other creatures on this planet, where 99.99% of species have already become extinct? I could go on, but I think you get my drift. Would this be anything like what a loving god would create? I'm an imperfect human and I can think of millions of better ways to design a world and beautiful creatures to inhabit it.

+1. So well put.