RTO - situational TW

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For working mom, I value the most is the flexibility of me working at home or leaving workplace early for anything related to kid sickness, kid events, kid appointment or grandparent issues. I tell boss upfront that family is my priority. I already told my boss that I will come in late and leave early or work remotely on some weeks during summer because some summer camps that I have signed up are only 9am to 3pm. If they don't work with me, they know that I will leave. My job is in high demand.

+1 I've made this clear as well. Honestly, there's nothing they can do. They've made our situation as flexible as they can without drawing scrutiny from the administration. However, I'm pretty sure I will use up all my leave this summer and then some. It is what it is. I will quit and eat generic saltine crackers for every meal before my family suffers. I'm guessing this is their plan all along.

At the rate we're going, I expect that I'll be forced out in a speed-RIF or thought crime purge before my leave balance is exhausted anyway, so I see the horrible commute and lack of flexibility as a temporary problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

could people please be accurate? this was NOT normal before 2020. telework has been BANNED.

prior to 2020 my office could work remotely every wednesday and you could duck out fewer than 8.5 hours after walking in and finish up at home. not like at 3pm, but 4:30 was fine, even if you showed up at 9. you could log on over the weekend and advance projects instead of coming into the office.

this will not be the situation now. we have zero telework. if i have a west coast filling i will be here till 9. if i have a monday deposition i will be in the office sunday to prepare. this isn’t an RTO it is a telework ban and we must characterize it as such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

could people please be accurate? this was NOT normal before 2020. telework has been BANNED.

prior to 2020 my office could work remotely every wednesday and you could duck out fewer than 8.5 hours after walking in and finish up at home. not like at 3pm, but 4:30 was fine, even if you showed up at 9. you could log on over the weekend and advance projects instead of coming into the office.

this will not be the situation now. we have zero telework. if i have a west coast filling i will be here till 9. if i have a monday deposition i will be in the office sunday to prepare. this isn’t an RTO it is a telework ban and we must characterize it as such.

All of this. I teleworked M/F prior to the pandemic. No one was hovering over my shoulder on in-office days. I - along with most of my colleagues - brought our laptops home and often worked before/after normal hours to get things done.

This kind of flexibility has expressly been banned. It is NOT normal and not like what we had before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

could people please be accurate? this was NOT normal before 2020. telework has been BANNED.

prior to 2020 my office could work remotely every wednesday and you could duck out fewer than 8.5 hours after walking in and finish up at home. not like at 3pm, but 4:30 was fine, even if you showed up at 9. you could log on over the weekend and advance projects instead of coming into the office.

this will not be the situation now. we have zero telework. if i have a west coast filling i will be here till 9. if i have a monday deposition i will be in the office sunday to prepare. this isn’t an RTO it is a telework ban and we must characterize it as such.

All of this. I teleworked M/F prior to the pandemic. No one was hovering over my shoulder on in-office days. I - along with most of my colleagues - brought our laptops home and often worked before/after normal hours to get things done.

This kind of flexibility has expressly been banned. It is NOT normal and not like what we had before.

AMEN. And in my private sector law job for years before joining the federal government, I teleworked one day a week and always brough my laptop home to get more work done.

It's not the requirement to be in an office that will force me out, and I am fully aware that whatever job I do get next will likely have an in-office component. It is the complete removal of any flexibility that will drive me away. (And yes, that is the point).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

You didn't have telework at your agency before 2020? That's weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

You didn't have telework at your agency before 2020? That's weird.

Im private sector, and nope. We were expected to complete all work in person or take leave. It was a big culture shift, but it is thankfully here to stay I believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

could people please be accurate? this was NOT normal before 2020. telework has been BANNED.

prior to 2020 my office could work remotely every wednesday and you could duck out fewer than 8.5 hours after walking in and finish up at home. not like at 3pm, but 4:30 was fine, even if you showed up at 9. you could log on over the weekend and advance projects instead of coming into the office.

this will not be the situation now. we have zero telework. if i have a west coast filling i will be here till 9. if i have a monday deposition i will be in the office sunday to prepare. this isn’t an RTO it is a telework ban and we must characterize it as such.

Agree. I'm at PTO and our management has made clear we are not permitted to TW -excepted "situationally", which is viewed as rare- for any of a full bi-week. We have to be in the office. They are not permitting "hardship" exceptions. They're also negating much of the workplace flexibility we have had. AND they are TRACKING it now to make sure people are as miserable as possible.

PTO used to be a wonderful place to work and now it's a former shell of itself. People are pissed and miserable. And this is so even though our acting director used to be a staff attorney who had the benefit of these flexibilities when she was employed here. Now she's just another sycophant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

could people please be accurate? this was NOT normal before 2020. telework has been BANNED.

prior to 2020 my office could work remotely every wednesday and you could duck out fewer than 8.5 hours after walking in and finish up at home. not like at 3pm, but 4:30 was fine, even if you showed up at 9. you could log on over the weekend and advance projects instead of coming into the office.

this will not be the situation now. we have zero telework. if i have a west coast filling i will be here till 9. if i have a monday deposition i will be in the office sunday to prepare. this isn’t an RTO it is a telework ban and we must characterize it as such.

Agree. I'm at PTO and our management has made clear we are not permitted to TW -excepted "situationally", which is viewed as rare- for any of a full bi-week. We have to be in the office. They are not permitting "hardship" exceptions. They're also negating much of the workplace flexibility we have had. AND they are TRACKING it now to make sure people are as miserable as possible.

PTO used to be a wonderful place to work and now it's a former shell of itself. People are pissed and miserable. And this is so even though our acting director used to be a staff attorney who had the benefit of these flexibilities when she was employed here. Now she's just another sycophant.

What does 'tracking' entail? Making sure people are in the office? Putting monitoring software on computers for keystrokes? Looking for badge swipes?

Just wondering what to expect at a different agency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

could people please be accurate? this was NOT normal before 2020. telework has been BANNED.

prior to 2020 my office could work remotely every wednesday and you could duck out fewer than 8.5 hours after walking in and finish up at home. not like at 3pm, but 4:30 was fine, even if you showed up at 9. you could log on over the weekend and advance projects instead of coming into the office.

this will not be the situation now. we have zero telework. if i have a west coast filling i will be here till 9. if i have a monday deposition i will be in the office sunday to prepare. this isn’t an RTO it is a telework ban and we must characterize it as such.

Agree. I'm at PTO and our management has made clear we are not permitted to TW -excepted "situationally", which is viewed as rare- for any of a full bi-week. We have to be in the office. They are not permitting "hardship" exceptions. They're also negating much of the workplace flexibility we have had. AND they are TRACKING it now to make sure people are as miserable as possible.

PTO used to be a wonderful place to work and now it's a former shell of itself. People are pissed and miserable. And this is so even though our acting director used to be a staff attorney who had the benefit of these flexibilities when she was employed here. Now she's just another sycophant.

NP and do you have a ballpark percentage of people that are eligible to TW at PTO vs. not? Seems like the bargaining unit would constitute a large percentage of the agency but I have no data point for that view.

[Anonymous]

Why dont they just take laptops away?

My old job people who abused Telework we made it they could only log on in the office for 90 days till they improved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DoD is saying situational telework is only for weather or other emergencies so not to benefit the employee. we were told we could not telework before a medical appointment or for a sick kid. I plan to leave my laptop at the office every day.

Does it really benefit primarily the *employee* to be able to WFH while sick or recovering from surgery? I have 1000 hours of sick leave banked. I think it benefits the agency more than me to be able to work rather than get paid for watching TV for weeks while my foot heals.

Not everyone has 1000 hours. I’m in the negative because I had to borrow sick leave to recover from my c-section, and that was over a year ago. So yes, being able to WFH when I’m sick benefits me because I would lose my job if I could not borrow any more sick leave and ran out of FMLA. And it allows me to recover faster if I’m not run ragged by commuting 2 hours every day.

Why didn’t you have Paid Parental leave if you’re a fed who has a baby just one year ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

You didn't have telework at your agency before 2020? That's weird.

Im private sector, and nope. We were expected to complete all work in person or take leave. It was a big culture shift, but it is thankfully here to stay I believe.

You know what? When I had my kids as a new fed there was no designated maternity leave. You could use sick leave for 6 weeks or 8 if you had a c section. After that it was clearing out your AL or LWOP. Everyone I knew in the private sector in even remotely comparable jobs had 3 months minimum so there weren’t going back to work with 0 hours of leave. It was really hard and I’m grateful I could afford the LWOP that I was able to take.

Now my colleagues have maternity leave. I have zero desire to take it away from them because it isn’t “fair” or because I didn’t get it. Paid maternity leave is a good thing and it should be more standard not less. We should all be cheering for improvements as they are made, especially those that benefit employees and employers (and in the case of feds, the taxpayer) and in my experience as hoc telework is one of those things that benefits EVERYONE.

I don’t understand some of the thinking I hear. Should we also get rid of dishwashers and washing machines so people don’t have to pour about how they used to do dishes and laundry by hand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of little kids with a 2 hour commute (I sought out a remote job because we live near my spouse's 5 day a week in person job), let me tell you how this is going to work.

I'm going to have to use a full day of leave for every appointment and every kid sick day, instead of a few hours split with my partner and/or making up work late. When I inevitably catch the flu or whatever after being home with sick kids, I'll be too low on leave to stay home longer, so I'll be bringing my illness on the train, metro, and into the office.

This is how it was with my oldest before I had a telework friendly job. I went in with pinkeye. I went in coughing and sneezing all day. I just didn't have the leave.

I have sympathy for you because this is new, but know that many of us have dealt with this all along and are proof that you’ll be okay.

+1 this was normal until 2020. But it also meant that women who are parents were less likely to advance in their roles. I had kids in daycare and remember breaking down in tears when I got a call to pick them up AGAIN because I thought I might lose my job.

Through remote work over the last 5 years I've been promoted twice and make almost double what I did before. Flexible schedules made that possible.

You didn't have telework at your agency before 2020? That's weird.

At my agency we only got 1 day of telework a pay period. And supervisors absolutely could not telework. Result? We had trouble getting current employees to apply for supervisory spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DoD is saying situational telework is only for weather or other emergencies so not to benefit the employee. we were told we could not telework before a medical appointment or for a sick kid. I plan to leave my laptop at the office every day.

Does it really benefit primarily the *employee* to be able to WFH while sick or recovering from surgery? I have 1000 hours of sick leave banked. I think it benefits the agency more than me to be able to work rather than get paid for watching TV for weeks while my foot heals.

Not everyone has 1000 hours. I’m in the negative because I had to borrow sick leave to recover from my c-section, and that was over a year ago. So yes, being able to WFH when I’m sick benefits me because I would lose my job if I could not borrow any more sick leave and ran out of FMLA. And it allows me to recover faster if I’m not run ragged by commuting 2 hours every day.

Why didn’t you have Paid Parental leave if you’re a fed who has a baby just one year ago?

They likely took more than 3 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DoD is saying situational telework is only for weather or other emergencies so not to benefit the employee. we were told we could not telework before a medical appointment or for a sick kid. I plan to leave my laptop at the office every day.

Does it really benefit primarily the *employee* to be able to WFH while sick or recovering from surgery? I have 1000 hours of sick leave banked. I think it benefits the agency more than me to be able to work rather than get paid for watching TV for weeks while my foot heals.

Not everyone has 1000 hours. I’m in the negative because I had to borrow sick leave to recover from my c-section, and that was over a year ago. So yes, being able to WFH when I’m sick benefits me because I would lose my job if I could not borrow any more sick leave and ran out of FMLA. And it allows me to recover faster if I’m not run ragged by commuting 2 hours every day.

Why didn’t you have Paid Parental leave if you’re a fed who has a baby just one year ago?

They likely took more than 3 months.

Well, that’d be a personal decision, rather than a medical necessity, barring unusual complications.

Point is, a lot feds have many hours of sick leave banked, and we accrue 13 days a year, and with a ban on telework, the result will be much more paid sick leave being used.