It Does Not Matter Where You Go to College

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I am by no means Ivy or bust but I do think it matters where you go.

Why do you think that?

For the vast majority of careers (PE and Investment banking aside), it does not matter. Put a highly qualified (qualified for lottery ticket for T25 schools) kid anywhere and they will excel. It's the kid's own work ethic and drive that leads to success, not the school they attend. Yes, T25 have a higher percentage who "excel" because literally everyone attending is a striver/has that work ethic. But go look at your State flagship, and track the kids who attend who "could have gone to an Ivy/T25" and you will see similar success.

Once more…you are actually saying it does matter where you go to college. OP never said you had to go to an Ivy…OP said it doesn’t matter AT ALL where you go to college.

You are saying go look at your state flagship…well just about every state flagship is a top 200 school and many are top 50.

For whatever reason these threads immediately are Top 25 vs everyone else, even though that’s not what OP said.

Nope, I'm stating it Does NOT matter where you go. Unless you want to be an investment banker or go into Private Equity (and you don't really get into that without your MBA, so then what matters is your MBA school, not your undergrad degree). So for 99.9999% of people, it does NOT matter.
And for IB, it only matters because they recruit at a limited number of schools, so it's harder to break in if you are not at those schools. But its more than 10 schools.



State flagship was an example, because that is where many "who have the resume for ivy/T25" end up for finances and other reasons. It's not the only choice. However a kid with a 1580/4.0UW/12AP+/top EC is not that likely to end up at Mary Washington or VCU. They will likely get into UVA or VaTech or W&M (or the equivalents in MD or elsewhere). So yes, unless finances are an issue, nobody is choosing MWU if they got into UVA/W&M/VaTech. Or they go to a good private that gives them excellent merit.

But if they did choose MWU (for whatever reason), they will be top dog in a small pond and do exceedingly well. Their outcomes are 99.99999% driven by what they do, not where they are.

Look around at the C-suite at your company and your partners company. Odds are 75-80% did not attend "elite schools" for undergrad. Some may have even gone to ones you haven't even heard of. Yet they are obviously doing well in life.

Not a single one of the top 20 execs at my company attended an undergrad that I have never heard of.

Every single one attended a top 150 school. That is an elite school considering there are 3000 residential colleges.

I don’t know how you are defining an elite school, but your further undermine your point if you say 30% of your top Execs attended a top 20 school…that’s a massive percentage coming from a small group of schools that aren’t that large for the most part.

Maybe we just agree that you really should attend say a top 200 school (even the less high school stress guy agrees).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just career. Some people meet their spouses in college. College provides a great filter.

I agree with this.

What’s wrong with meeting a spouse at community college?

Doesn’t meet the standards of some of these trashy snobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just career. Some people meet their spouses in college. College provides a great filter.

There are still plenty of excellent "spouse material" candidates if your Ivy/T25 qualified attends their state school (honors program) or a school ranked in the T150. Plenty of like minded people. Sure it might be harder if they to to a school ranked 300, but in the T150-200, there are plenty of driven, hard working, smart people.

+1
But it doesn’t have to be in the honors programs, which are often just “name only” programs with no real substance. Good schools attract smart people, period.

+1

One kid attended a 80-100 ranked school. Yes there are kids there who had a 3.3UW in HS and only a 1150. But there are also plenty of kids who had a 1400+/3.9UW/10AP+ and are majoring in engineering/biomedical sciences/etc. Plenty of smart driven kids. As well as plenty of kids like my kid, with a 1250/3.5UW. All of my kid's friends graduated in 4 years, have jobs or are attending graduate school. 3 years out of undergrad and they are all "successful".
And yes, the kids find their crowd and most of the "really smart" find a crowd that includes many really smart kids as well. Not hard to find your group

“Plenty with 1400+” and an average around between 1150-1250 is an entirely different vibe and rigor than 75% of kids 1500+, come on its not even close to the same atmosphere nor the same level of intelligence and courses. 1400+ is NOT the same as 1500+ especially when the 1400+ are themselves not common at the school.
Peer fit matters for the best education. Grad and professional schools know it. Those that have been at both will tell you : typical state flagships in the t75-100 range run courses much slower and more superficial than T20/ish. Of course T10 v T20 or T30 v T50 is only mildly different,on average, when discussing student talent, but T10 v T100 is an extremely wide margin. Not many average students would be happy at the latter, and they would risk not reaching their potential

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I am by no means Ivy or bust but I do think it matters where you go.

Why do you think that?

For the vast majority of careers (PE and Investment banking aside), it does not matter. Put a highly qualified (qualified for lottery ticket for T25 schools) kid anywhere and they will excel. It's the kid's own work ethic and drive that leads to success, not the school they attend. Yes, T25 have a higher percentage who "excel" because literally everyone attending is a striver/has that work ethic. But go look at your State flagship, and track the kids who attend who "could have gone to an Ivy/T25" and you will see similar success.

Once more…you are actually saying it does matter where you go to college. OP never said you had to go to an Ivy…OP said it doesn’t matter AT ALL where you go to college.

You are saying go look at your state flagship…well just about every state flagship is a top 200 school and many are top 50.

For whatever reason these threads immediately are Top 25 vs everyone else, even though that’s not what OP said.

Nope, I'm stating it Does NOT matter where you go. Unless you want to be an investment banker or go into Private Equity (and you don't really get into that without your MBA, so then what matters is your MBA school, not your undergrad degree). So for 99.9999% of people, it does NOT matter.
And for IB, it only matters because they recruit at a limited number of schools, so it's harder to break in if you are not at those schools. But its more than 10 schools.



State flagship was an example, because that is where many "who have the resume for ivy/T25" end up for finances and other reasons. It's not the only choice. However a kid with a 1580/4.0UW/12AP+/top EC is not that likely to end up at Mary Washington or VCU. They will likely get into UVA or VaTech or W&M (or the equivalents in MD or elsewhere). So yes, unless finances are an issue, nobody is choosing MWU if they got into UVA/W&M/VaTech. Or they go to a good private that gives them excellent merit.

But if they did choose MWU (for whatever reason), they will be top dog in a small pond and do exceedingly well. Their outcomes are 99.99999% driven by what they do, not where they are.

Look around at the C-suite at your company and your partners company. Odds are 75-80% did not attend "elite schools" for undergrad. Some may have even gone to ones you haven't even heard of. Yet they are obviously doing well in life.

Not a single one of the top 20 execs at my company attended an undergrad that I have never heard of.

Every single one attended a top 150 school. That is an elite school considering there are 3000 residential colleges.

I don’t know how you are defining an elite school, but your further undermine your point if you say 30% of your top Execs attended a top 20 school…that’s a massive percentage coming from a small group of schools that aren’t that large for the most part.

Maybe we just agree that you really should attend say a top 200 school (even the less high school stress guy agrees).

Both are true at the mid-atlantic large local law firm and the largest outpatient internal medical subspecialty group:

Every single person at each came from a 150 or better, 35% and 55% respectively went to a T30 / T15 Lac, for undergrad. Very few went T10, about 15%. Those are all overrepresented percents considering the 3000 colleges in the usa. These are not “big law”, because it is a large town/small citylike area, not close to nyc or boston . And the med facility is not affiliated with any big-name top 25 med school. These are “regular “ lw and med jobs, known locally only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest. Due to finances and the fact that we didn't push our kids like crazy and prioritized them being well-rounded, wanted them to enjoy hs and not be stressed out (dh and I were sad, perfect students with no lives) they are not going to get into any remotely impressive schools. Being a non-shiny A kid who is good at sports and well-adjusted but not top anything is not what colleges seem to care about at all. It'll likely be a regional university for them due to our flagship being hard to get into, and limited merit options elsewhere. I love my kids, and I know they will be fine wherever they go. I also agree with your statement fully. I know people from all college backgrounds who are doing very well! Yet I feel ashamed talking about my kids' college future with people and actively avoid irl college talk. I know people absolutely judge and it makes me feel terrible. I wish I truly did not care.

Well if your educational pedigree meant anything, you wouldn’t be worried about finances and could pay to play your kids in to the T15. Looks like you just proved OP’s point.

[Anonymous]

College is a 4-year stop on the (hopefully) 80+ year road of life. it's roughly just 4% or less of your life.

Logos can help you look impressive for a job. But experiences outside college are equally impressive. Going to K-8 and 9-12 with well-connected peers who go on to do great things could do as much or more for your network than 4 years of college. Or graduate school when you work closely with people with similar interests.

In college you end up bonding primarily with your roommates or floormates in your dorm. Which can be a pretty random assignment. Given how accepted hazing is during rush period, relationships in sororities and frats can start with a problematic ethics code which isn't a great foundation.

Don't build up college up too much in your teen's head. Elementary school, high school and grad school and their first real professional job can be just as or more formative than college. College is just one stop out of many along the way.

[Anonymous]

The "where" matters a ton more if you're poor. Otherwise, you're fine statistically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest. Due to finances and the fact that we didn't push our kids like crazy and prioritized them being well-rounded, wanted them to enjoy hs and not be stressed out (dh and I were sad, perfect students with no lives) they are not going to get into any remotely impressive schools. Being a non-shiny A kid who is good at sports and well-adjusted but not top anything is not what colleges seem to care about at all. It'll likely be a regional university for them due to our flagship being hard to get into, and limited merit options elsewhere. I love my kids, and I know they will be fine wherever they go. I also agree with your statement fully. I know people from all college backgrounds who are doing very well! Yet I feel ashamed talking about my kids' college future with people and actively avoid irl college talk. I know people absolutely judge and it makes me feel terrible. I wish I truly did not care.

Well if your educational pedigree meant anything, you wouldn’t be worried about finances and could pay to play your kids in to the T15. Looks like you just proved OP’s point.

T15 are need blind as are many more. Pell grant kids get a huge boost, full pay is neutral or negative. Get up to date. The truth based on data is 75% of students who got into ivy+ in the late 80s to mid90s are not smart enough to get in now, so their progeny have little chance unless they are a recruited athlete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I am by no means Ivy or bust but I do think it matters where you go.

Why do you think that?

For the vast majority of careers (PE and Investment banking aside), it does not matter. Put a highly qualified (qualified for lottery ticket for T25 schools) kid anywhere and they will excel. It's the kid's own work ethic and drive that leads to success, not the school they attend. Yes, T25 have a higher percentage who "excel" because literally everyone attending is a striver/has that work ethic. But go look at your State flagship, and track the kids who attend who "could have gone to an Ivy/T25" and you will see similar success.

Once more…you are actually saying it does matter where you go to college. OP never said you had to go to an Ivy…OP said it doesn’t matter AT ALL where you go to college.

You are saying go look at your state flagship…well just about every state flagship is a top 200 school and many are top 50.

For whatever reason these threads immediately are Top 25 vs everyone else, even though that’s not what OP said.

Nope, I'm stating it Does NOT matter where you go. Unless you want to be an investment banker or go into Private Equity (and you don't really get into that without your MBA, so then what matters is your MBA school, not your undergrad degree). So for 99.9999% of people, it does NOT matter.
And for IB, it only matters because they recruit at a limited number of schools, so it's harder to break in if you are not at those schools. But its more than 10 schools.



State flagship was an example, because that is where many "who have the resume for ivy/T25" end up for finances and other reasons. It's not the only choice. However a kid with a 1580/4.0UW/12AP+/top EC is not that likely to end up at Mary Washington or VCU. They will likely get into UVA or VaTech or W&M (or the equivalents in MD or elsewhere). So yes, unless finances are an issue, nobody is choosing MWU if they got into UVA/W&M/VaTech. Or they go to a good private that gives them excellent merit.

But if they did choose MWU (for whatever reason), they will be top dog in a small pond and do exceedingly well. Their outcomes are 99.99999% driven by what they do, not where they are.

Look around at the C-suite at your company and your partners company. Odds are 75-80% did not attend "elite schools" for undergrad. Some may have even gone to ones you haven't even heard of. Yet they are obviously doing well in life.

Not a single one of the top 20 execs at my company attended an undergrad that I have never heard of.

Every single one attended a top 150 school. That is an elite school considering there are 3000 residential colleges.

I don’t know how you are defining an elite school, but your further undermine your point if you say 30% of your top Execs attended a top 20 school…that’s a massive percentage coming from a small group of schools that aren’t that large for the most part.

Maybe we just agree that you really should attend say a top 200 school (even the less high school stress guy agrees).

I would want to stick to top 200 (maybe even top 100) just to have classmates who are all pretty smart but I'm not sure the less high school stress folks would agree that's necessary.. Just take a look at their list of where CEOS went to college. Lots of colleges on there I've never heard of.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/business/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest. Due to finances and the fact that we didn't push our kids like crazy and prioritized them being well-rounded, wanted them to enjoy hs and not be stressed out (dh and I were sad, perfect students with no lives) they are not going to get into any remotely impressive schools. Being a non-shiny A kid who is good at sports and well-adjusted but not top anything is not what colleges seem to care about at all. It'll likely be a regional university for them due to our flagship being hard to get into, and limited merit options elsewhere. I love my kids, and I know they will be fine wherever they go. I also agree with your statement fully. I know people from all college backgrounds who are doing very well! Yet I feel ashamed talking about my kids' college future with people and actively avoid irl college talk. I know people absolutely judge and it makes me feel terrible. I wish I truly did not care.

Well if your educational pedigree meant anything, you wouldn’t be worried about finances and could pay to play your kids in to the T15. Looks like you just proved OP’s point.

Is “pedigree” something people actually still say? lol

[Anonymous]

Not sure long term results, but I have one that graduated from a T10 with a girlfriend and a job. Loving the job in their STEM field and potential for enormous growth, but not there now. Motiviatin for this kid is knowledge. Girlfriend horribly dumped them six months later, right after a big event. (I am not enmeshed in my kids life, but this one hit them hard.)

Second kid graduated from one of the "less than" state schools often mentioned here also with a girlfriend and a job in their field. This kid is also motivated by money. Engaged to the gf and making bank in a job he talked his way into.

Point is - school may matter, but it's not the end. Life circumstances and kids interest/desires will make as much, if not more, of a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure long term results, but I have one that graduated from a T10 with a girlfriend and a job. Loving the job in their STEM field and potential for enormous growth, but not there now. Motiviatin for this kid is knowledge. Girlfriend horribly dumped them six months later, right after a big event. (I am not enmeshed in my kids life, but this one hit them hard.)

Second kid graduated from one of the "less than" state schools often mentioned here also with a girlfriend and a job in their field. This kid is also motivated by money. Engaged to the gf and making bank in a job he talked his way into.

Point is - school may matter, but it's not the end. Life circumstances and kids interest/desires will make as much, if not more, of a difference.

+ 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With Senior year for HS'ers kicking off, I just want get this spiel off my chest and hopefully ease the stress of a lot of parents (and their DS/DDs). In terms of your future career prospects it matters very little where you go to college. You might say, "But the Ivy Leaguers [or equivalent prestige] get the best jobs, make the most money, advance the most quickly" and so on. There's a lot of truth to this. HOWEVER, it is not because these kids went to Ivy League colleges. It's because they were smart and driven enough to get into them (and graduate from them) in the first place.

Now don't get me wrong, it is definitely important, as far as career prospects go, to GO to college and to work hard and do well there. But other than working as a first-year analyst at an investment bank (which would be terrible for most people) there are few jobs where a going to an Ivy League is going to be a prerequisite.

What I think is much more important - and what no one gives enough thought to - is what their major is going to be. That actually has a much bigger determinant on career prospects than where one attends college. I.e., vastly different outcomes for engineering/economics/social work/English

Yes and no.

Of course, your major is generally more important in a practical sense than your alma mater.
Unless you are talking about HYPSM and maybe ivy+, you get no real mileage from marginal improvements on the UNSWR ranking chart.
Noone is going to care if you got your degree at NYU or JMU 5 years after you graduate.
If you get a graduate degree (and I suspect most of you realize your kids are going to be getting graduate degrees), then where you get your terminal degree is what matters.
Noone cares that you went to Harvard undergrad if you go to graduate from Touro laws school except your loan service provider, and noone cares that you went to Radford if you graduate from Harvard law school.

HOWEVER... this is still one of the biggest expenses you will have in your life and if your kid is going to a great school, it really takes a lot of the sting out of writing that check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But it still puts you in a certain box forever. It only matters how much you care about that. Your network starts with your college. Again, depends how much you see the value of that.
I don't think Ivy is the only way. Lots of other colleges will give networks that bring lifelong benefits.

Nobody really cares about your alma mater unless they have a great football/basketball team, you went to an IVY+ or a service academy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not this again.

Yes, it actually does matter where you go to college, unless your claim is that all institutions of higher ed are exactly the same with the same people and in the same location and the same lineup of professors and curriculum.

No one would be stupid enough to claim that

This is true. Best to avoid places that might turn your kid into a McKinsey clown.

I would do McKinsey. They end up as CEOs everywhere.

Yes, we definitely need to churn out more drones to r@pe the environment and the working class simultaneously so some mom has bragging rights

I like those bragging rights.
But McKinsey isn't really bragworthy anymore for the moms.
It's par for the course, if your kids don't work at least at bulge bracket or mbb consulting, you failed mom unless they are going to top grad school.
Even ivy+ is only OK (except Cal Tech and MIT they are fan favorites) now that they don't discrimainte against us. Too easy, everybody getting in now. Minerva is much more selective, and noone heard of it so you can spend half an hour explaining how much smarter your son is than their son because they went to Minerva.
And who cares about bulge bracket anymore? Jane street, millenium, those guys are much better and other moms only just starting to learn about them so you can spend another half an hour explaining how much richer your son is than their son.
Maybe their son can come over and ask your son for some pointers on life.