Why are DCUM parents less inclined to have their child major in business?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL. I'm sure everyone wants their philosophy kid to complete a forensic accounting investigation when your firm's livelihood is on the line?

You're all idiots. Intelligent people don't skew their opinions of a major based on ONE person they know who couldn't get a job.

I don't work for failing firms? I hope you don't either. Not sure ENRON is the best buy in to promote a major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only a handful of universities with well regarded undergraduate business schools - Penn, MIT, Berkeley, Michigan, Cornell, Notre Dame, Georgetown, Indiana, NYU, USC, UVA, and WashU. Studying at those business programs will be perfectly acceptable for your average DCUM reader. At other T30 colleges without undergraduate business schools, people tend to major in economics if interested in corporate/finance/banking/consulting careers. Also acceptable.

Majoring in Business Administration or similar at State U or at a school not mentioned above still has a stigma however. Traditionally, it's not where you find the best and brightest. Such students are generally regarded as shallow, boring, uninteresting, and incurious. Fair or not, those students are not taken seriously. And a business admin degree from a non-elite school is regarded about the same as a certificate from the community college. You hire them to complete basic tasks, not to lead or manage. Someone that studied business at Wharton or Stern is going to have very different career outcomes than someone who studied business at Towson St.

You all just say anything. Whether necessary or not, a “business degree” is often listed as a requirement for many corporate entry level jobs. I know because I see it at my own Fortune 100 employer. Could a history major learn the same skills necessary to be successful in the role - absolutely. But having taken basic accounting, finance, Econ courses goes a step further in getting your foot in the door. And once you’ve proven yourself, no one cares where you attended undergrad.

Thank you .

[Anonymous]

Commonly, there's no 'business major'.
There are school of business, college of business, etc.
Under the school or college, there are majors such as finance, analytics, supply chain, accounting, MIS, etc.

Some majors such as marketing or business administration are 'weaker' for the lack of better terms.

If universities have business programs, most likely they are more competitive and harder to get in.
Outcome is better on the average right below CS/Engineering.

This is how it's like in the 21st century.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:dcum always recommends CS and Engineering as degrees with best employment but I recruit finance undergrad and it is a decent major.

I don't really see the difference between DCUM promoting econ majors and finance degrees. They overwhelmingly go to the same careers.

That’s not really true. Econ and Finance majors from top schools may end up in IB and consulting, but you will find more Finance majors working for F500 companies either in trainee programs or going into financial planning & analysis or treasury functions. Econ majors aren’t usually hired for these roles.

Statistically, you have far more Econ majors pursuing graduate work vs finance majors as well (and interestingly, you have Math and Econ majors pursuing finance PhDs in higher numbers than finance undergrads).

I don't necessarily see the difference, other than you just saying econ majors aren't hired. From DC's recent cohort, quite a few are going to Apple after going into their Financial Developer program, and a ton participate in those trainee programs for financial planning and many of those jobs list "Finance, Financial Economics, Econ,..." as acceptable degrees. Sure, many went into IB or Consulting, but most end up in typical financial positions that you would get from a decent finance program. Of course, more people are going into Econ grad school-there's more economics to do out in the academic world, and if your goal is to work for the Fed or some prime-time international NPO, grad programs place well into them. The math majors going into finance want to be quants, not really surprising to me.

From what school? You have to go beyond the Top 50 to understand the difference for an Econ major vs a Finance major and career paths.

Actually…there is plenty of grad school work for Finance PhDs but schools have a hard time getting people to pursue those PhDs…that is why a finance PhD comes with a generous stipend and it is one of the few academic areas with lots of tenure-track jobs.

I don't see why. The type of students to get into a Finance PhD program are top students. The type of students to get into a good finance development program are from top schools overwhelmingly (in the case of Apple, they take a few "local" students at Santa Clara University for DEI). If you have the chops to get into a good finance career, you typically come from the top 50 or 100 colleges.
DC attended CMC.

SV hires lots of kids from Santa Clara…not sure why you felt the need to throw shade for zero reason.

I'm not "shading" them, it's just an acknowledged relationship that Apple has with Santa Clara. You think they couldn't get better applicants when Stanford is a 20 minute drive away? A lot of companies do similar DEI and location-based hiring, it's not a diss, just a part of the application game.

Santa Clara... the school with fewer than 3% black students and fewer than 20% hispanic students (in California!) is a DEI school? What? That makes no sense at all.
MAYBE you could say it about San Jose State Univ (which most SV firms also have really good relationships with) or you could acknowledge that those major SV firms need a lot of good engineers/CS/finance/business people, and they are happy hiring kids from the area who are more likely to stay long term since they have root there.

[Anonymous]

My ds probably will major in business or something economy/accounting-related. He's smart, does very well in school, but not academic in the "thirst for abstract knowledge and literature" sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a major for academically smart kids.

True, outside of the top undergrad business programs (Wharton, Mit, Cornell, and about 5 others) it is not where smart kids land. Look at the smartest kids from the top private high schools and top publics: Engineering, other stem, Liberal Arts (typically prelaw or prePhD goals, for the smartest).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Snobbery?

STEM is hot. Law is prestigious. DCUM seems to not like many majors outside those fields.

I think degrees in nursing, early childhood education, soil science, construction management, etc. are all better than a business degree, and I imagine that most DCUMers would agree with me. It's not about snobbery at all.

No. Those are below average-school business degrees as far as desirability. They are not top tier degrees or careers and when someone nods and says That’s great they leave off the “…for your child”. They would never want that for their own unless their own were not academic at all and then they would much rather be able to say business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a major for academically smart kids.

True, outside of the top undergrad business programs (Wharton, Mit, Cornell, and about 5 others) it is not where smart kids land. Look at the smartest kids from the top private high schools and top publics: Engineering, other stem, Liberal Arts (typically prelaw or prePhD goals, for the smartest).

Again not true at all.
If a university has a business program, it's usually higher demand and more competitive to get in.
Students are smarter on the average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Snobbery?

STEM is hot. Law is prestigious. DCUM seems to not like many majors outside those fields.

I think degrees in nursing, early childhood education, soil science, construction management, etc. are all better than a business degree, and I imagine that most DCUMers would agree with me. It's not about snobbery at all.

No. Those are below average-school business degrees as far as desirability. They are not top tier degrees or careers and when someone nods and says That’s great they leave off the “…for your child”. They would never want that for their own unless their own were not academic at all and then they would much rather be able to say business.

A general "business administration" degree, like a general "communications" degree, doesn't mean much. You went to college for four years and took classes. I am going to assume I am going to have to train you in a lot of things, unless you are talking about someone getting a degree from a university's School of Business (so, a Business degree) in Accounting or Finance or something.

My brother has a state school business degree in Hospitality Management and in 20 years he has done a number of things related to the hotel industry, including tech, operations, management, and sales. At his university, you had to major in something--accounting, entrepreneurship, finance, hospitality management, IT/analytics, international, econ, management, marketing, or operations management. You could only do "business administration" as a minor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are only a handful of universities with well regarded undergraduate business schools - Penn, MIT, Berkeley, Michigan, Cornell, Notre Dame, Georgetown, Indiana, NYU, USC, UVA, and WashU. Studying at those business programs will be perfectly acceptable for your average DCUM reader. At other T30 colleges without undergraduate business schools, people tend to major in economics if interested in corporate/finance/banking/consulting careers. Also acceptable.

Majoring in Business Administration or similar at State U or at a school not mentioned above still has a stigma however. Traditionally, it's not where you find the best and brightest. Such students are generally regarded as shallow, boring, uninteresting, and incurious. Fair or not, those students are not taken seriously. And a business admin degree from a non-elite school is regarded about the same as a certificate from the community college. You hire them to complete basic tasks, not to lead or manage. Someone that studied business at Wharton or Stern is going to have very different career outcomes than someone who studied business at Towson St.

Actually, Cal's undergrad business program is relatively new compared to CSUs. When I was applying for college in CA (as a long time resident), Cal didn't have a business undergrad program, neither did a lot of the other UCs. It was the CSU schools that had an undergrad business program.

You guys are hilarious. "Stigma associated with BA from a state u" - You might as well say that you are an elitist who only cares about IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL. I'm sure everyone wants their philosophy kid to complete a forensic accounting investigation when your firm's livelihood is on the line?

You're all idiots. Intelligent people don't skew their opinions of a major based on ONE person they know who couldn't get a job.

I don't work for failing firms? I hope you don't either. Not sure ENRON is the best buy in to promote a major.

I bet the auditors from Anderson were from "elite" colleges that DCUM crowd loves.

[Anonymous]

I had a general business major. I got my MBA in Finance but most MBA programs waive a lot of classes if you return to school within 5 years.

You can take as little as 36 credits some MBAs if you have a recent MBA and had all Bs or higher in undergrad courses.

Some MBAs will let you do a 5 year program and get undergrad and MBA together in 5 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:dcum always recommends CS and Engineering as degrees with best employment but I recruit finance undergrad and it is a decent major.

I don't really see the difference between DCUM promoting econ majors and finance degrees. They overwhelmingly go to the same careers.

That’s not really true. Econ and Finance majors from top schools may end up in IB and consulting, but you will find more Finance majors working for F500 companies either in trainee programs or going into financial planning & analysis or treasury functions. Econ majors aren’t usually hired for these roles.

Statistically, you have far more Econ majors pursuing graduate work vs finance majors as well (and interestingly, you have Math and Econ majors pursuing finance PhDs in higher numbers than finance undergrads).

I don't necessarily see the difference, other than you just saying econ majors aren't hired. From DC's recent cohort, quite a few are going to Apple after going into their Financial Developer program, and a ton participate in those trainee programs for financial planning and many of those jobs list "Finance, Financial Economics, Econ,..." as acceptable degrees. Sure, many went into IB or Consulting, but most end up in typical financial positions that you would get from a decent finance program. Of course, more people are going into Econ grad school-there's more economics to do out in the academic world, and if your goal is to work for the Fed or some prime-time international NPO, grad programs place well into them. The math majors going into finance want to be quants, not really surprising to me.

From what school? You have to go beyond the Top 50 to understand the difference for an Econ major vs a Finance major and career paths.

Actually…there is plenty of grad school work for Finance PhDs but schools have a hard time getting people to pursue those PhDs…that is why a finance PhD comes with a generous stipend and it is one of the few academic areas with lots of tenure-track jobs.

I don't see why. The type of students to get into a Finance PhD program are top students. The type of students to get into a good finance development program are from top schools overwhelmingly (in the case of Apple, they take a few "local" students at Santa Clara University for DEI). If you have the chops to get into a good finance career, you typically come from the top 50 or 100 colleges.
DC attended CMC.

SV hires lots of kids from Santa Clara…not sure why you felt the need to throw shade for zero reason.

I'm not "shading" them, it's just an acknowledged relationship that Apple has with Santa Clara. You think they couldn't get better applicants when Stanford is a 20 minute drive away? A lot of companies do similar DEI and location-based hiring, it's not a diss, just a part of the application game.

Santa Clara... the school with fewer than 3% black students and fewer than 20% hispanic students (in California!) is a DEI school? What? That makes no sense at all.
MAYBE you could say it about San Jose State Univ (which most SV firms also have really good relationships with) or you could acknowledge that those major SV firms need a lot of good engineers/CS/finance/business people, and they are happy hiring kids from the area who are more likely to stay long term since they have root there.

Can you read over your own comment and see the 20% hispanic students part again. His peers in the Apple Financial Developer Program from Santa Clara were all hispanic. California is not a very black state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Snobbery?

STEM is hot. Law is prestigious. DCUM seems to not like many majors outside those fields.

I think degrees in nursing, early childhood education, soil science, construction management, etc. are all better than a business degree, and I imagine that most DCUMers would agree with me. It's not about snobbery at all.

No. Those are below average-school business degrees as far as desirability. They are not top tier degrees or careers and when someone nods and says That’s great they leave off the “…for your child”. They would never want that for their own unless their own were not academic at all and then they would much rather be able to say business.

Nursing is pretty strong everywhere. I don't know anyone with a BSN struggling for cash or a job. I do know people with business degrees very underemployed however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a major for academically smart kids.

+1

I’m a high school teacher and talk to and write recs for 100+ kids every year. The kids who are decided on Business as an undergrad major are not the academically smart kids. Also, if the 20 years of evidence I have in this area means anything here, no, it is not a guarantee of a high paying job.