What do liberal arts majors do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

Harvard English: $49,675

Harvard CS: $256,539

Look at the enormous gap. Imagine why? LOL
Good luck with humanities majors in no name schools.

As has been noted, college score card is ONLY kids getting FEDERAL (ie Pell) FA. That's a sliver. Do you know how many liberal arts majors from Williams and Dartmouth go to GS and McKinsey? A lot. Are they the Pell kids? No. And this data is for the 4th year out of college, which is hardly mid career.

But I agree, in 2005 to 2020ish - CS was the fastest way to make money. It's also the shortest career ... which is fine, but understand you have to move into management or prepare to get aged out.

____ here's the fine print:

The median annual earnings of individuals who received federal financial aid during their studies and completed an award at the indicated field of study. To be included in the median earnings calculation, the individuals needed to be working and not be enrolled in school during the year when earnings are measured. Median earnings are measured in the fourth full year after the student completed their award.

That's why this is even more important and significant.
Federal aids include any type of loans. Most of the middle class get some sort of federal loans.
This eliminates really rich families and their fancy connections.
A kid working for dad's company or through dad's fancy connection making 200,000K don't mean shit to normal middle class people. So this is actually great information.

The status after 4 years from graduation seems important.

this is not true. Federal Aid is Pell or veteran benefits. Loans are not Federal Aid

[Anonymous]

Join the military.

[Anonymous]

I scanned some of the "first destinations" in Virginia Tech's report by major for humanities majors like history, english, philosophy, creative writing, human development. Yes, there are things like tutoring, waitress, construction, restaurant manager. But also jobs like teaching, social media management, project manager at a law firm (likely seeing if law school makes sense), writer for a magazine, HR recruiter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am as pro-liberal arts and humanities as they come, and I agree that there’s a fair amount of fear in many of the anti-LAC posts, as well as a lack of vision. The best parts of my life — and my biggest financial rewards — came from having engaged deeply with huge ideas that at the time served no obvious practical outcome. (And no, I was not rich — far closer to LMC than UMC).

That said, I have real empathy for people who are concerned about ROI, and who are focused on the data that are available. College costs far too much, and we’ve probably all seen lives broken or made lesser because of crushing student debt. I’d argue that these were policy choices (as one example, we allowed 100% of the risks of student loans to accrue only to the borrower), but they happened.

And while the first job salary data is both limited and limiting, it is the only real clean data. You can’t put the same kid into two career paths concurrently. Everything after that first job gets very murky, bc there are so many variables involved in any one individual’s success.

Personally, I’m still willing to bet on the value of the liberal arts in the long term — at least for kids who are drawn to these subjects naturally, and whose guts are telling them to follow that call. But I would never, ever advise someone to take out loans for an English degree, or a classics degree, and I think it’s critically important to have conversations with liberal arts majors about career paths and calculated risk. And I absolutely understand people who have witnessed the astronomical rise in cost for an undergraduate degree, and are looking to minimize risk.

+1. I think this is key. If you love, love English and study that in college, you will figure out a way to do well. OTOH, if you hate, hate CS but do it anyway, you will still do reasonably well, way better that the average kid studying English. That's the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

Harvard English: $49,675

Harvard CS: $256,539

Look at the enormous gap. Imagine why? LOL
Good luck with humanities majors in no name schools.

As has been noted, college score card is ONLY kids getting FEDERAL (ie Pell) FA. That's a sliver. Do you know how many liberal arts majors from Williams and Dartmouth go to GS and McKinsey? A lot. Are they the Pell kids? No. And this data is for the 4th year out of college, which is hardly mid career.

But I agree, in 2005 to 2020ish - CS was the fastest way to make money. It's also the shortest career ... which is fine, but understand you have to move into management or prepare to get aged out.

____ here's the fine print:

The median annual earnings of individuals who received federal financial aid during their studies and completed an award at the indicated field of study. To be included in the median earnings calculation, the individuals needed to be working and not be enrolled in school during the year when earnings are measured. Median earnings are measured in the fourth full year after the student completed their award.

That's why this is even more important and significant.
Federal aids include any type of loans. Most of the middle class get some sort of federal loans.
This eliminates really rich families and their fancy connections.
A kid working for dad's company or through dad's fancy connection making 200,000K don't mean shit to normal middle class people. So this is actually great information.

The status after 4 years from graduation seems important.

this is not true. Federal Aid is Pell or veteran benefits. Loans are not Federal Aid

Why are you lying???

https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types

"Types of Financial Aid: Loans, Grants, and Work-Study Programs.
Financial aid is money to help pay for college or career school. Grants, work-study, loans, and scholarships help make college or career school affordable."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1/3 of global CEOs of Fortune 500 companies have liberal arts degrees.

A lot of those are economics tho

Economics is a good major unlike those humanities majors like English, communications, anthropology, etc. etc.

I would argue the same skills are being taught, just looking at human behavior through different lenses.

Economics is ultimately about people and how they behave. Just like anthropology, communications, and English.

I do agree the fields those might take you into might have wildly varying pay scales, but not everyone is motivated by a top-earning paycheck. If someone has a passion for anthropology, they'll accept lower pay than a computer scientist. And the difference in an AI world is the computer scientist is more likely to be displaced than the anthropologist, who will APPLY AI to their work.

More to the point, the foundational skills of all these majors are essentially the same, which makes these people highly desirable for large global Fortune 500 companies -- should those majors even desire to work in such an environment.

I have a liberal arts degree in philosophy. I earn $275,000 a year and have earned in the $200s since my 30s.

I realize anecdote is not evidence, but the notion that there's no value in liberal arts is not grounded in reality. And it also doesn't herald the future, where humanities degrees will be more coveted than engineering or computer science. Just ask Mark Cuban.

Sorry that's not the reality.

Harvard Economics: $124,570
Harvard English: $49,570

Employers who actually pay don't agree with you.

There is a huge difference in starting salaries. Much less difference after 15 or 20 years, and some studies show the difference can even reverse.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-news-liberal-arts-majors-your-peers-probably-wont-outearn-you-forever-1473645902

Anyway there is a lot more to life than earning 140k at 23. I spent my 20s traveling and studying and doing some low-paid work. Now at 50 I earn $350k. I wouldn’t change a thing. History degree, by the way (where I learned not to focus unduly on the short term)…

LOL there are a lot more to life with 140k at 23 like traveling and experiencing the world.
Much harder with 60K unless you are a trust fund kid. Pay rent.

DP: Actually the opposite is more true--when you are not gunning for a high earning position, you find some teaching English internationally position or other similar, use that to travel the world and pay your rent in LCOL countries. As you meet people, you often find other job opportunities. You develop a lot of experience, develop a solid sense of your self and the world, meet a lot of people and figure out what you want to do with this one life you have. This path is easier than it ever was with the ability to stay on your parent's health insurance until age 26 and/or purchase cheap traveler's insurance or ACA in the US. This self-development plus international work history isn't too hard to then translate into a US career-oriented job in your mid-20s.

You're never going to convince the overly anxious person who's all in on being a STEM drone that their decision, however valid for them or their children, isn't without more risk in the new and emerging workplace or right for everyone. You can tell how anxious they are by their flailing, whereas the liberal arts people are calm, collected, and know their value.

+1

Their currency is just different from ours. Most people can appreciate those who do things they can't. There are a few STEM-obsessed people here who don't understand why anyone would want to be on a different path than the one they are on, which is kind of sad.

STEM isn't for everyone, to be sure, but "what do liberal arts majors do"? *Most* either end in up lower paying jobs or get graduate degrees.

Caveat emptor.

[Anonymous]

I know a theatre major running a lighting and event company. Another one earns well over $200k in PR and manages a department of 50 or so.

My take is that it’s more important to have people skills than a particular degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading in one of the other threads that even physics and math majors are considered borderline employable these days, and have to double up in something "practical". Normally I would take that as normal DCUM overreaction but I'm starting to sweat it for a niece of mine.

Consider the following scenario. You're at a school ranked somewhere in the 20s on the US News liberal arts colleges list, majoring in some branch of literature. It's too late to transfer out or switch majors. You might want to do a professional degree (e.g. law school) at a later date, but you want to work a few years first.

What's the play here? Is there a reasonably straightforward path to good earnings? Or are you doomed to penury til you snag your J.D. or whatever?

Oh boy! I didn't read all the responses but judging by the number of pages, I suspect it's a lot .

Liberal Arts peeps are very defensive and prickly and take offense to any question about the viability of their degrees. Some do very well (just like some community college-->GMU students do very well) and they will paint a picture that leads you to believe that they are the rule and not the exception. In general, you need grad school or beyond when you get a non-professional degree. There are no free lunches. Of course, there are exceptions.

This is the problem with expressing an opinion without reading the source material -- you make a lot of incorrect assumptions.

The prickly ones in this thread have been the STEM-obsessed people who can't fathom that someone might choose a different path. The LA majors are not taking offense since any question about the "viability of their degrees" is just a premise that can be rejected out-of-hand -- it's not a valid perspective. That's the backwards looking conversation, anyway. The real question is what does the future hold.

But the "prickly" ones here aren't the LA majors. They're the ones who are very confident.

I don't think anyone is saying they "can't fathom that someone might choose a different path". The fundamental (valid) point remains: A LA degree, on average, is worthless without a grad education, preferably professional (Law, MBA, etc.). This is clearly evidenced by salary outcomes published by various sources (which you can google yourself).

As for the future, folks that have mental flexibility, willing to learn new things, and adapt will thrive. This has been the case forever. This is more of a personality trait vs. something that is taught in college as part of a LA or STEM education. I don't think one bestows an advantage over the other in this regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

Harvard English: $49,675

Harvard CS: $256,539

Look at the enormous gap. Imagine why? LOL
Good luck with humanities majors in no name schools.

Meh. This leaves out important info like which’s turners had trust funds. My trust fund friends always earned less than most others because they could just work for fun.

I’m sure Harvard has at least a few trust fund kids who can major in whatever and then get a job that pays well or not.

CS would not be my dream if I didn’t have to work. Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1/3 of global CEOs of Fortune 500 companies have liberal arts degrees.

A lot of those are economics tho

Economics is a good major unlike those humanities majors like English, communications, anthropology, etc. etc.

I would argue the same skills are being taught, just looking at human behavior through different lenses.

Economics is ultimately about people and how they behave. Just like anthropology, communications, and English.

I do agree the fields those might take you into might have wildly varying pay scales, but not everyone is motivated by a top-earning paycheck. If someone has a passion for anthropology, they'll accept lower pay than a computer scientist. And the difference in an AI world is the computer scientist is more likely to be displaced than the anthropologist, who will APPLY AI to their work.

More to the point, the foundational skills of all these majors are essentially the same, which makes these people highly desirable for large global Fortune 500 companies -- should those majors even desire to work in such an environment.

I have a liberal arts degree in philosophy. I earn $275,000 a year and have earned in the $200s since my 30s.

I realize anecdote is not evidence, but the notion that there's no value in liberal arts is not grounded in reality. And it also doesn't herald the future, where humanities degrees will be more coveted than engineering or computer science. Just ask Mark Cuban.

Sorry that's not the reality.

Harvard Economics: $124,570
Harvard English: $49,570

Employers who actually pay don't agree with you.

There is a huge difference in starting salaries. Much less difference after 15 or 20 years, and some studies show the difference can even reverse.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-news-liberal-arts-majors-your-peers-probably-wont-outearn-you-forever-1473645902

Anyway there is a lot more to life than earning 140k at 23. I spent my 20s traveling and studying and doing some low-paid work. Now at 50 I earn $350k. I wouldn’t change a thing. History degree, by the way (where I learned not to focus unduly on the short term)…

LOL there are a lot more to life with 140k at 23 like traveling and experiencing the world.
Much harder with 60K unless you are a trust fund kid. Pay rent.

DP: Actually the opposite is more true--when you are not gunning for a high earning position, you find some teaching English internationally position or other similar, use that to travel the world and pay your rent in LCOL countries. As you meet people, you often find other job opportunities. You develop a lot of experience, develop a solid sense of your self and the world, meet a lot of people and figure out what you want to do with this one life you have. This path is easier than it ever was with the ability to stay on your parent's health insurance until age 26 and/or purchase cheap traveler's insurance or ACA in the US. This self-development plus international work history isn't too hard to then translate into a US career-oriented job in your mid-20s.

You're never going to convince the overly anxious person who's all in on being a STEM drone that their decision, however valid for them or their children, isn't without more risk in the new and emerging workplace or right for everyone. You can tell how anxious they are by their flailing, whereas the liberal arts people are calm, collected, and know their value.

+1

Their currency is just different from ours. Most people can appreciate those who do things they can't. There are a few STEM-obsessed people here who don't understand why anyone would want to be on a different path than the one they are on, which is kind of sad.

STEM isn't for everyone, to be sure, but "what do liberal arts majors do"? *Most* either end in up lower paying jobs or get graduate degrees.

Caveat emptor.

For all the so called logical thinking and reasoning skills they supposedly aquired as part of an LA education, the LA peeps on this thread don't seem to get (or want to acknowledge) this point!

[Anonymous]

I'm a civil servant.

[Anonymous]

The vast majority of jobs don't require any college education, even high paying ones. In Europe, law students and medical students don't have to waste their time and money doing an undergrad degree program.

Many high level jobs require a certain acculturation to a certain way of communicating.
And many require a diploma as an IQ/work ethic filter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many things you can do in this world that aren’t engineering. My background fits your description and I work in marketing. I make around $350k. Entry level is about $60k.

Sharp analytical thinkers and storytellers will be needed, even in an AI-driven world.

ESPECIALLY in an AI-driven world. AI is going to replace the coders, not the creatives.

uh no. I have seen AI create art (amazing btw), and write stuff. If AI can code, it can write some marketing blurb.

AI currently regurgitates writing instead of creating original ideas in writing.

I guess we will see if humans want to watch movies and shows created by AI. Only time will tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

Harvard English: $49,675

Harvard CS: $256,539

Look at the enormous gap. Imagine why? LOL
Good luck with humanities majors in no name schools.

Meh. This leaves out important info like which’s turners had trust funds. My trust fund friends always earned less than most others because they could just work for fun.

I’m sure Harvard has at least a few trust fund kids who can major in whatever and then get a job that pays well or not.

CS would not be my dream if I didn’t have to work. Lol

Great answer to a question that no one asked!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many things you can do in this world that aren’t engineering. My background fits your description and I work in marketing. I make around $350k. Entry level is about $60k.

Sharp analytical thinkers and storytellers will be needed, even in an AI-driven world.

ESPECIALLY in an AI-driven world. AI is going to replace the coders, not the creatives.

uh no. I have seen AI create art (amazing btw), and write stuff. If AI can code, it can write some marketing blurb.

AI currently regurgitates writing instead of creating original ideas in writing.

I guess we will see if humans want to watch movies and shows created by AI. Only time will tell.

AI generated art and marketing content (which is ephemeral) is way better that AI generated code (which is more permanent).