"Clubs are competitive"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

My kids are at ivies and they are in clubs and report many non-competitive clubs. There are a lot of myths out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

SIGH. People hate to look at themselves in the mirror. LC and MC people especially, as well as first-generation UMCs do not understand that having your kid get into a college means ZERO if your kid can't figure out how to flourish. So you need to know your kid's place.

Yale has to admit some high-achieving kids who are minorities or lower/middle income. Those kids are the "exception that proves the rule" of how difficult it is to get into Yale. Those kids are there to sink or swim in their classes, all while providing the dining hall labor.

But there is ZERO reason for the generally UC kids running a club to accept these lower or middle-class kids unless they REALLY benefit PERSONALLY from including them. These are the kids that have no connections, nothing interesting in their experiences and background, and nothing but their brains to push them forward. They can't function in an executive room where people give lip service to diversity, but laugh about the diversity hire's latest fumble during cocktails after a round. Oh, was your kid not invited to play that round of golf? Exactly.

So look at your kid. Is she gorgeous? Then maybe she can get hint to the club President that she'll date him, or maybe she can look good on stage with the members of the a cappella group.

Does your kid have a hookup for really good drugs? Then maybe he can trade on that to get into an investment club.

But if your kid is the average "successful" entrant to Yale, their already WAY ahead of the game. They got admitted, and surely are getting all sorts of "need"-based financial aid. So they really don't need to be given any more perks that would let them rise ahead of the kids who actually FUND the university. it's just the way it is.

Do you realize what an ugly, inhumane, transactional society people like this yield?

Thank God they are in the minority.

Let them rub elbows with each other, and always wonder why their "friends" and romantic partners are with them.

ROI is really the way some people make all life decisions, I guess, which is capitalism taken to a pathological level.

I agree. The post made me feel badly for young society. I’m glad I’m not rich enough or important enough to have had experienced those “friends”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son joined the Jefferson Society at UVA first semester of first year. Wildly competitive. He also joined [b]Madison House—- open to all, community volunteering. [url]

He left Jeff Soc after two years, informally and quietly. It was a little too smug for him. But he volunteered with Madison right up to graduation.

UVA has both types of clubs. I imagine most schools do? Kids find their people.

Madison House is not open to all. I’ve heard of a few kids who were not able to participate

That’s too bad. I’m the poster that asked about UVA. We were told club swim is open to all but obviously not all attend some of the big meets. This might be a deal breaker if it’s not really open to all just for practices.

Does your kid ski or snowboard? The club there is accommodating to all and will build them onto the race team. They get a lot of funding from the school to subsidize winter and spring break trips out west and the Northeast. Open to all and have over 500 members. They have two houses and host social events, have formals, it's a great club.

https://www.vasst-uva.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll selfishly ask for any experiences at UVA?

There are 850+ clubs. Other than club sports which are very competitive (and often national champs) there are maybe 50 that are competitive (probably less).

But out of those 850 clubs, how many of them are really active?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll selfishly ask for any experiences at UVA?

There are 850+ clubs. Other than club sports which are very competitive (and often national champs) there are maybe 50 that are competitive (probably less).

But out of those 850 clubs, how many of them are really active?

Plenty

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son joined the Jefferson Society at UVA first semester of first year. Wildly competitive. He also joined [b]Madison House—- open to all, community volunteering. [url]

He left Jeff Soc after two years, informally and quietly. It was a little too smug for him. But he volunteered with Madison right up to graduation.

UVA has both types of clubs. I imagine most schools do? Kids find their people.

Madison House is not open to all. I’ve heard of a few kids who were not able to participate

That’s too bad. I’m the poster that asked about UVA. We were told club swim is open to all but obviously not all attend some of the big meets. This might be a deal breaker if it’s not really open to all just for practices.

UVA swim club has won nationals 4 years in a row, so very competitive. They do allow anyone to join and have a great social network. Same for Pickleball, national champions but have social members.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son joined the Jefferson Society at UVA first semester of first year. Wildly competitive. He also joined [b]Madison House—- open to all, community volunteering. [url]

He left Jeff Soc after two years, informally and quietly. It was a little too smug for him. But he volunteered with Madison right up to graduation.

UVA has both types of clubs. I imagine most schools do? Kids find their people.

Madison House is not open to all. I’ve heard of a few kids who were not able to participate

That’s too bad. I’m the poster that asked about UVA. We were told club swim is open to all but obviously not all attend some of the big meets. This might be a deal breaker if it’s not really open to all just for practices.

UVA swim club has won nationals 4 years in a row, so very competitive. They do allow anyone to join and have a great social network. Same for Pickleball, national champions but have social members.

Club tennis is also a recent national championship winner and club field hockey won this year. UVAs club sports teams are super competitive and stacked with people who could have played D2, D3 and even D1 but chose not to. Club tennis has a “social team” that doesn’t complete but it’s still super hard to get on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

SIGH. People hate to look at themselves in the mirror. LC and MC people especially, as well as first-generation UMCs do not understand that having your kid get into a college means ZERO if your kid can't figure out how to flourish. So you need to know your kid's place.

Yale has to admit some high-achieving kids who are minorities or lower/middle income. Those kids are the "exception that proves the rule" of how difficult it is to get into Yale. Those kids are there to sink or swim in their classes, all while providing the dining hall labor.

But there is ZERO reason for the generally UC kids running a club to accept these lower or middle-class kids unless they REALLY benefit PERSONALLY from including them. These are the kids that have no connections, nothing interesting in their experiences and background, and nothing but their brains to push them forward. They can't function in an executive room where people give lip service to diversity, but laugh about the diversity hire's latest fumble during cocktails after a round. Oh, was your kid not invited to play that round of golf? Exactly.

So look at your kid. Is she gorgeous? Then maybe she can get hint to the club President that she'll date him, or maybe she can look good on stage with the members of the a cappella group.

Does your kid have a hookup for really good drugs? Then maybe he can trade on that to get into an investment club.

But if your kid is the average "successful" entrant to Yale, their already WAY ahead of the game. They got admitted, and surely are getting all sorts of "need"-based financial aid. So they really don't need to be given any more perks that would let them rise ahead of the kids who actually FUND the university. it's just the way it is.

Do you realize what an ugly, inhumane, transactional society people like this yield?

Thank God they are in the minority.

Let them rub elbows with each other, and always wonder why their "friends" and romantic partners are with them.

ROI is really the way some people make all life decisions, I guess, which is capitalism taken to a pathological level.

I agree. The post made me feel badly for young society. I’m glad I’m not rich enough or important enough to have had experienced those “friends”.

Sadly this is reality. I didn’t see it until 20+ years after I graduated….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only certain clubs that are competitive, usually all the club sports though some have social participation that accept anyone. Usually business related clubs like investing clubs are competitive and maybe the school paper etc. The vast majority are not.

Club sports are very competitive. You’ll have people who could be D1 or D3 at a different school choose to give that up to attend their top choice where there isn’t a D1 spot for them. Then they play club.

Or maybe they don’t want the D1 athlete lifestyle and its constraints and choose to play club.

Rec sports teams are low key and for nearly any level.

There are also performance clubs, which may not technically be clubs. You have to audition for productions, and scholarship kids get first pick because they are the most talented and vetted.

This is not even necessarily true, depending on the school and sport. For example, at Texas, rec football is incredibly competitive. The law school team was coached for decades by noted Constitutional scholar Charles Allen Wright, and there were rumors (never confirmed) that football prowess could be a factor in law school admissions. They had formal practices multiple times a week, etc.

https://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/legal-eagles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

SIGH. People hate to look at themselves in the mirror. LC and MC people especially, as well as first-generation UMCs do not understand that having your kid get into a college means ZERO if your kid can't figure out how to flourish. So you need to know your kid's place.

Yale has to admit some high-achieving kids who are minorities or lower/middle income. Those kids are the "exception that proves the rule" of how difficult it is to get into Yale. Those kids are there to sink or swim in their classes, all while providing the dining hall labor.

But there is ZERO reason for the generally UC kids running a club to accept these lower or middle-class kids unless they REALLY benefit PERSONALLY from including them. These are the kids that have no connections, nothing interesting in their experiences and background, and nothing but their brains to push them forward. They can't function in an executive room where people give lip service to diversity, but laugh about the diversity hire's latest fumble during cocktails after a round. Oh, was your kid not invited to play that round of golf? Exactly.

So look at your kid. Is she gorgeous? Then maybe she can get hint to the club President that she'll date him, or maybe she can look good on stage with the members of the a cappella group.

Does your kid have a hookup for really good drugs? Then maybe he can trade on that to get into an investment club.

But if your kid is the average "successful" entrant to Yale, their already WAY ahead of the game. They got admitted, and surely are getting all sorts of "need"-based financial aid. So they really don't need to be given any more perks that would let them rise ahead of the kids who actually FUND the university. it's just the way it is.

This may have been true at one point, but it is true no longer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/01/yale-skull-and-bones-secret-societies-diversity/677030/

Picture a member of Skull and Bones, or any of the other Ancient Eight secret societies, and you’ll probably conjure a preppy white guy who summers on the Cape. In fact, in recent years, the demographics of Yale’s most elite organizations have been utterly transformed. In 2020, Skull and Bones had its first entirely nonwhite class. (Every year, the society admits around 15 rising seniors; selections must be unanimous, and members have final say.) Many of the societies now have only one or two students each year who aren’t from historically marginalized groups.

Today, the idea of Skull and Bones selecting someone whose dad was a Republican president seems inconceivable. The so-called tap lines—the tradition guaranteeing that the football captain and the student-body president would end up in Bones—are long gone, and few descendants of alumni members get in. Instead, the secret societies affirmatively select for students who are the first in their family to attend college, who come from a low-income background, or who are part of a minority group. This has created something of a diversity arms race. “People are, intentionally or not, thinking, ‘Does this cohort have too many white people?’” said Ale Canales, a member of the Berzelius class of 2020. “It’s definitely an undercurrent.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

SIGH. People hate to look at themselves in the mirror. LC and MC people especially, as well as first-generation UMCs do not understand that having your kid get into a college means ZERO if your kid can't figure out how to flourish. So you need to know your kid's place.

Yale has to admit some high-achieving kids who are minorities or lower/middle income. Those kids are the "exception that proves the rule" of how difficult it is to get into Yale. Those kids are there to sink or swim in their classes, all while providing the dining hall labor.

But there is ZERO reason for the generally UC kids running a club to accept these lower or middle-class kids unless they REALLY benefit PERSONALLY from including them. These are the kids that have no connections, nothing interesting in their experiences and background, and nothing but their brains to push them forward. They can't function in an executive room where people give lip service to diversity, but laugh about the diversity hire's latest fumble during cocktails after a round. Oh, was your kid not invited to play that round of golf? Exactly.

So look at your kid. Is she gorgeous? Then maybe she can get hint to the club President that she'll date him, or maybe she can look good on stage with the members of the a cappella group.

Does your kid have a hookup for really good drugs? Then maybe he can trade on that to get into an investment club.

But if your kid is the average "successful" entrant to Yale, their already WAY ahead of the game. They got admitted, and surely are getting all sorts of "need"-based financial aid. So they really don't need to be given any more perks that would let them rise ahead of the kids who actually FUND the university. it's just the way it is.

This may have been true at one point, but it is true no longer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/01/yale-skull-and-bones-secret-societies-diversity/677030/

Picture a member of Skull and Bones, or any of the other Ancient Eight secret societies, and you’ll probably conjure a preppy white guy who summers on the Cape. In fact, in recent years, the demographics of Yale’s most elite organizations have been utterly transformed. In 2020, Skull and Bones had its first entirely nonwhite class. (Every year, the society admits around 15 rising seniors; selections must be unanimous, and members have final say.) Many of the societies now have only one or two students each year who aren’t from historically marginalized groups.

Today, the idea of Skull and Bones selecting someone whose dad was a Republican president seems inconceivable. The so-called tap lines—the tradition guaranteeing that the football captain and the student-body president would end up in Bones—are long gone, and few descendants of alumni members get in. Instead, the secret societies affirmatively select for students who are the first in their family to attend college, who come from a low-income background, or who are part of a minority group. This has created something of a diversity arms race. “People are, intentionally or not, thinking, ‘Does this cohort have too many white people?’” said Ale Canales, a member of the Berzelius class of 2020. “It’s definitely an undercurrent.”

More from the article:

I graduated from Yale last spring, and I didn’t belong to a secret society, but when it came time for members in my year to select the next class, a friend in an Ancient Eight society worried that the person she wanted to tap wouldn’t get in: He was a person of color but came from a wealthy family and was not the first in his family to attend college. (She was right to worry: The society rejected my friend’s pick, although a different one accepted him.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

SIGH. People hate to look at themselves in the mirror. LC and MC people especially, as well as first-generation UMCs do not understand that having your kid get into a college means ZERO if your kid can't figure out how to flourish. So you need to know your kid's place.

Yale has to admit some high-achieving kids who are minorities or lower/middle income. Those kids are the "exception that proves the rule" of how difficult it is to get into Yale. Those kids are there to sink or swim in their classes, all while providing the dining hall labor.

But there is ZERO reason for the generally UC kids running a club to accept these lower or middle-class kids unless they REALLY benefit PERSONALLY from including them. These are the kids that have no connections, nothing interesting in their experiences and background, and nothing but their brains to push them forward. They can't function in an executive room where people give lip service to diversity, but laugh about the diversity hire's latest fumble during cocktails after a round. Oh, was your kid not invited to play that round of golf? Exactly.

So look at your kid. Is she gorgeous? Then maybe she can get hint to the club President that she'll date him, or maybe she can look good on stage with the members of the a cappella group.

Does your kid have a hookup for really good drugs? Then maybe he can trade on that to get into an investment club.

But if your kid is the average "successful" entrant to Yale, their already WAY ahead of the game. They got admitted, and surely are getting all sorts of "need"-based financial aid. So they really don't need to be given any more perks that would let them rise ahead of the kids who actually FUND the university. it's just the way it is.

This may have been true at one point, but it is true no longer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/01/yale-skull-and-bones-secret-societies-diversity/677030/

Picture a member of Skull and Bones, or any of the other Ancient Eight secret societies, and you’ll probably conjure a preppy white guy who summers on the Cape. In fact, in recent years, the demographics of Yale’s most elite organizations have been utterly transformed. In 2020, Skull and Bones had its first entirely nonwhite class. (Every year, the society admits around 15 rising seniors; selections must be unanimous, and members have final say.) Many of the societies now have only one or two students each year who aren’t from historically marginalized groups.

Today, the idea of Skull and Bones selecting someone whose dad was a Republican president seems inconceivable. The so-called tap lines—the tradition guaranteeing that the football captain and the student-body president would end up in Bones—are long gone, and few descendants of alumni members get in. Instead, the secret societies affirmatively select for students who are the first in their family to attend college, who come from a low-income background, or who are part of a minority group. This has created something of a diversity arms race. “People are, intentionally or not, thinking, ‘Does this cohort have too many white people?’” said Ale Canales, a member of the Berzelius class of 2020. “It’s definitely an undercurrent.”

More from the article:

I graduated from Yale last spring, and I didn’t belong to a secret society, but when it came time for members in my year to select the next class, a friend in an Ancient Eight society worried that the person she wanted to tap wouldn’t get in: He was a person of color but came from a wealthy family and was not the first in his family to attend college. (She was right to worry: The society rejected my friend’s pick, although a different one accepted him.)

There are currently something like 55 senior/secret societies at Yale. the “Ancient 8” Are the ones everybody knows about but over half the senior class ends up in a society and mostly not in the famous ones. It can still be a stressful going through the tap process but the society system has also been modified so basically if you want to be in a society there are avenues in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

SIGH. People hate to look at themselves in the mirror. LC and MC people especially, as well as first-generation UMCs do not understand that having your kid get into a college means ZERO if your kid can't figure out how to flourish. So you need to know your kid's place.

Yale has to admit some high-achieving kids who are minorities or lower/middle income. Those kids are the "exception that proves the rule" of how difficult it is to get into Yale. Those kids are there to sink or swim in their classes, all while providing the dining hall labor.

But there is ZERO reason for the generally UC kids running a club to accept these lower or middle-class kids unless they REALLY benefit PERSONALLY from including them. These are the kids that have no connections, nothing interesting in their experiences and background, and nothing but their brains to push them forward. They can't function in an executive room where people give lip service to diversity, but laugh about the diversity hire's latest fumble during cocktails after a round. Oh, was your kid not invited to play that round of golf? Exactly.

So look at your kid. Is she gorgeous? Then maybe she can get hint to the club President that she'll date him, or maybe she can look good on stage with the members of the a cappella group.

Does your kid have a hookup for really good drugs? Then maybe he can trade on that to get into an investment club.

But if your kid is the average "successful" entrant to Yale, their already WAY ahead of the game. They got admitted, and surely are getting all sorts of "need"-based financial aid. So they really don't need to be given any more perks that would let them rise ahead of the kids who actually FUND the university. it's just the way it is.

This may have been true at one point, but it is true no longer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/01/yale-skull-and-bones-secret-societies-diversity/677030/

Picture a member of Skull and Bones, or any of the other Ancient Eight secret societies, and you’ll probably conjure a preppy white guy who summers on the Cape. In fact, in recent years, the demographics of Yale’s most elite organizations have been utterly transformed. In 2020, Skull and Bones had its first entirely nonwhite class. (Every year, the society admits around 15 rising seniors; selections must be unanimous, and members have final say.) Many of the societies now have only one or two students each year who aren’t from historically marginalized groups.

Today, the idea of Skull and Bones selecting someone whose dad was a Republican president seems inconceivable. The so-called tap lines—the tradition guaranteeing that the football captain and the student-body president would end up in Bones—are long gone, and few descendants of alumni members get in. Instead, the secret societies affirmatively select for students who are the first in their family to attend college, who come from a low-income background, or who are part of a minority group. This has created something of a diversity arms race. “People are, intentionally or not, thinking, ‘Does this cohort have too many white people?’” said Ale Canales, a member of the Berzelius class of 2020. “It’s definitely an undercurrent.”

More from the article:

I graduated from Yale last spring, and I didn’t belong to a secret society, but when it came time for members in my year to select the next class, a friend in an Ancient Eight society worried that the person she wanted to tap wouldn’t get in: He was a person of color but came from a wealthy family and was not the first in his family to attend college. (She was right to worry: The society rejected my friend’s pick, although a different one accepted him.)

There are currently something like 55 senior/secret societies at Yale. the “Ancient 8” Are the ones everybody knows about but over half the senior class ends up in a society and mostly not in the famous ones. It can still be a stressful going through the tap process but the society system has also been modified so basically if you want to be in a society there are avenues in

Maybe, but the point is that op's screed about how the clubs are controlled by the upper class white people who exclude the less advantaged diverse students simply isn't true. If anything, the inverse is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

SIGH. People hate to look at themselves in the mirror. LC and MC people especially, as well as first-generation UMCs do not understand that having your kid get into a college means ZERO if your kid can't figure out how to flourish. So you need to know your kid's place.

Yale has to admit some high-achieving kids who are minorities or lower/middle income. Those kids are the "exception that proves the rule" of how difficult it is to get into Yale. Those kids are there to sink or swim in their classes, all while providing the dining hall labor.

But there is ZERO reason for the generally UC kids running a club to accept these lower or middle-class kids unless they REALLY benefit PERSONALLY from including them. These are the kids that have no connections, nothing interesting in their experiences and background, and nothing but their brains to push them forward. They can't function in an executive room where people give lip service to diversity, but laugh about the diversity hire's latest fumble during cocktails after a round. Oh, was your kid not invited to play that round of golf? Exactly.

So look at your kid. Is she gorgeous? Then maybe she can get hint to the club President that she'll date him, or maybe she can look good on stage with the members of the a cappella group.

Does your kid have a hookup for really good drugs? Then maybe he can trade on that to get into an investment club.

But if your kid is the average "successful" entrant to Yale, their already WAY ahead of the game. They got admitted, and surely are getting all sorts of "need"-based financial aid. So they really don't need to be given any more perks that would let them rise ahead of the kids who actually FUND the university. it's just the way it is.

This may have been true at one point, but it is true no longer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/01/yale-skull-and-bones-secret-societies-diversity/677030/

Picture a member of Skull and Bones, or any of the other Ancient Eight secret societies, and you’ll probably conjure a preppy white guy who summers on the Cape. In fact, in recent years, the demographics of Yale’s most elite organizations have been utterly transformed. In 2020, Skull and Bones had its first entirely nonwhite class. (Every year, the society admits around 15 rising seniors; selections must be unanimous, and members have final say.) Many of the societies now have only one or two students each year who aren’t from historically marginalized groups.

Today, the idea of Skull and Bones selecting someone whose dad was a Republican president seems inconceivable. The so-called tap lines—the tradition guaranteeing that the football captain and the student-body president would end up in Bones—are long gone, and few descendants of alumni members get in. Instead, the secret societies affirmatively select for students who are the first in their family to attend college, who come from a low-income background, or who are part of a minority group. This has created something of a diversity arms race. “People are, intentionally or not, thinking, ‘Does this cohort have too many white people?’” said Ale Canales, a member of the Berzelius class of 2020. “It’s definitely an undercurrent.”

More from the article:

I graduated from Yale last spring, and I didn’t belong to a secret society, but when it came time for members in my year to select the next class, a friend in an Ancient Eight society worried that the person she wanted to tap wouldn’t get in: He was a person of color but came from a wealthy family and was not the first in his family to attend college. (She was right to worry: The society rejected my friend’s pick, although a different one accepted him.)

There are currently something like 55 senior/secret societies at Yale. the “Ancient 8” Are the ones everybody knows about but over half the senior class ends up in a society and mostly not in the famous ones. It can still be a stressful going through the tap process but the society system has also been modified so basically if you want to be in a society there are avenues in

Maybe, but the point is that op's screed about how the clubs are controlled by the upper class white people who exclude the less advantaged diverse students simply isn't true. If anything, the inverse is true.

Sorry -- that should be "pp's screed" (spell check keeps changing it to "op" for some reason).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son joined the Jefferson Society at UVA first semester of first year. Wildly competitive. He also joined [b]Madison House—- open to all, community volunteering. [url]

He left Jeff Soc after two years, informally and quietly. It was a little too smug for him. But he volunteered with Madison right up to graduation.

UVA has both types of clubs. I imagine most schools do? Kids find their people.

Madison House is not open to all. I’ve heard of a few kids who were not able to participate

That’s too bad. I’m the poster that asked about UVA. We were told club swim is open to all but obviously not all attend some of the big meets. This might be a deal breaker if it’s not really open to all just for practices.

UVA swim club has won nationals 4 years in a row, so very competitive. They do allow anyone to join and have a great social network. Same for Pickleball, national champions but have social members.

Thanks! My kid saw that they won nationals which is great. It seemed from their insta that anyone could join so I’m relieved to hear that is the case. Our kid didn’t focus on swim solely in high school but loves it and really hopes to join. I guess as a “social member”! Thanks again.