Flying first/ business class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP, we’re at around $200K HHI and $2M NW and we like to travel in our family of four, but I have never had enough money and cannot imagine ever having enough money to feel that business or first class would be in our reach.

It really shouldn't be at that HHI and NW.

Shut up

WTF is your issue?

IMO, someone making $200K and only 2M NW and that has 2 kids, should not be paying for business or first class routinely (ie flying 3-4+ times per year) Most financial advisors would have a similar opinion. Just like someone making 200K shouldn't be spending $75K on a new vehicle. That money would be more beneficial going towards college savings/retirement savings.

DP. I fly business often. I spent 70k on a new car, bought a 1.2m house in a good school district. Income is 250k and financial goals are on track. Life is good. NW is 2m (not including home equity)
If you think this isn’t doable, you should take my classes on how to manage your money.

There is definitely something you are leaving out. Where did you get the downpayment for your house? How much was it? Do you have kids? Do they have college funds and who is funding it? You either have family help or had some sort of windfall/exit event you are leaving out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Booking in advance is pretty pointless these days. Predictive analytics tells the airlines what to price things at. If anything, waiting longer pays off. Business class this year has been ridiculous.

Actual evidence or generalization? I'm the PP who is flying to Europe in August with our family for $2,500 ticket in business class. We purchased those about 10 months before the trip.

Also in my experience with work trips, it's the same thing -- if you book really far in advance you can get decent deals. There's a few conferences I attend every year so I book those nearly a year in advance and always get reasonable prices.

Yes, I book multiple flights a month and whether I’m booking a week in advance or 6 months in advance - time of year and time of flight matter way more. Check out flying to Jackson, Eagle, or Bozeman in on Sat/out on Sat any week in Jan/Feb. They’ll stay the same as they are now until those planes are full.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HHI $1M, family of five, have never flown first class. I just can't fathom paying many times the cost to fly on the exact same aircraft to the exact same destination. Also, I wouldn't want to get my children accustomed to it. I'll admit I did look upon the first class section with envy on our trip to Europe last summer...would've been nice to stretch and sleep comfortably on the overnight flight. But I'll take a cramped, uncomfortable experience to save five figures.

With a HHI of $1 million what are you saving those 5 figures for and will the savings really make a difference to you in the long term.

If you’re brand new to that level of income and don’t expect it to last I guess it’s understandable to hoard while you can but otherwise I don’t understand why at that hhi you would deprive yourself of a far more comfortable travel /vacation experience just so that you can die with even more in the bank.

If people think that something is not worth the price they are charging they won’t buy it no matter what their income is. Not everyone cares where they sit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that you don’t track airline miles at what income level would you start regularly flying first/ business class for just regular vacation.

Assume 2 adults and 3 kids.

Is your number based on actual experience having reached it or is it a hypothetical question only for you at this point?

Our HHI is $575K and NW is $7.5M. We never fly coach. Not ever. If a particular flight doesn’t have business class or first class (usually small regional flights), we won’t even take it. I’d rather fly at a different time of day or to a nearby city. Our family of five flies about 6 times per year. Half domestic, half international. DH flies for business 1-2 times per month in addition to our personal travel. Always business or first.

Dealing with all the clueless and unprepared people that don’t regularly travel, the overcrowded club lounges, the chaotic boarding processes, the fake service animals, the lying and self-proclaimed disabled and military travelers pushing to the front of the line, the 3+ year-old lap children, the mediocre service, the bulkhead diaper changing, the garbage on-board food, etc…. It’s all too much. The only stress reliever is knowing that at least on-board we’ll have a reasonably elevated and comfortable experience. Couldn’t handle it otherwise.

We have a dedicated divided ETF that generates about $6K per month after taxes to help offset cost differences between coach and first.

Which ETF?

5 people have asked this and the Indian ghosted us all

I can't decide if that post was satire or not. The idea of having a dedicated part of your portfolio, solely to "offset cost differences between coach and first" sure sounded ridiculous!

Not satire. During the early days of the pandemic we bought 50,000 shares of VYMI @ $45 per share. Wanted to simultaneously take advantage of low stock prices and generate a steady stream of income to counter once per year unpredictable bonuses and to pay for things like fine dining, business class airfare, luxury hotels, etc…. Now at $66 / share, so up almost 50% in 4 years. Plus we’ve generated about $550K in passive income in four years, averaging about $34K each quarter. Not bad. Otherwise we have another $750K in home equity, $3M in retirement savings (mostly VTI / VUG), and another $500K in 529/HSA/HYSA savings.

We mostly bought a dividend ETF just because the stock market had tanked and it was on sale and we wanted to diversify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP, we’re at around $200K HHI and $2M NW and we like to travel in our family of four, but I have never had enough money and cannot imagine ever having enough money to feel that business or first class would be in our reach.

It really shouldn't be at that HHI and NW.

Shut up

WTF is your issue?

IMO, someone making $200K and only 2M NW and that has 2 kids, should not be paying for business or first class routinely (ie flying 3-4+ times per year) Most financial advisors would have a similar opinion. Just like someone making 200K shouldn't be spending $75K on a new vehicle. That money would be more beneficial going towards college savings/retirement savings.

DP. I fly business often. I spent 70k on a new car, bought a 1.2m house in a good school district. Income is 250k and financial goals are on track. Life is good. NW is 2m (not including home equity)
If you think this isn’t doable, you should take my classes on how to manage your money.

There is definitely something you are leaving out. Where did you get the downpayment for your house? How much was it? Do you have kids? Do they have college funds and who is funding it? You either have family help or had some sort of windfall/exit event you are leaving out.

+1

No way on 250K can you have everything listed above, especially if 1-2+ kids and college funds.
And I'd argue, if you don't have fully funded college funds, then you probably shouldn't be flying business/first. But that's just me, I wouldn't complain about being a "donut hole" family who flies first/business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that you don’t track airline miles at what income level would you start regularly flying first/ business class for just regular vacation.

Assume 2 adults and 3 kids.

Is your number based on actual experience having reached it or is it a hypothetical question only for you at this point?

Our HHI is $575K and NW is $7.5M. We never fly coach. Not ever. If a particular flight doesn’t have business class or first class (usually small regional flights), we won’t even take it. I’d rather fly at a different time of day or to a nearby city. Our family of five flies about 6 times per year. Half domestic, half international. DH flies for business 1-2 times per month in addition to our personal travel. Always business or first.

Dealing with all the clueless and unprepared people that don’t regularly travel, the overcrowded club lounges, the chaotic boarding processes, the fake service animals, the lying and self-proclaimed disabled and military travelers pushing to the front of the line, the 3+ year-old lap children, the mediocre service, the bulkhead diaper changing, the garbage on-board food, etc…. It’s all too much. The only stress reliever is knowing that at least on-board we’ll have a reasonably elevated and comfortable experience. Couldn’t handle it otherwise.

We have a dedicated divided ETF that generates about $6K per month after taxes to help offset cost differences between coach and first.

Which ETF?

5 people have asked this and the Indian ghosted us all

I can't decide if that post was satire or not. The idea of having a dedicated part of your portfolio, solely to "offset cost differences between coach and first" sure sounded ridiculous!

Not satire. During the early days of the pandemic we bought 50,000 shares of VYMI @ $45 per share. Wanted to simultaneously take advantage of low stock prices and generate a steady stream of income to counter once per year unpredictable bonuses and to pay for things like fine dining, business class airfare, luxury hotels, etc…. Now at $66 / share, so up almost 50% in 4 years. Plus we’ve generated about $550K in passive income in four years, averaging about $34K each quarter. Not bad. Otherwise we have another $750K in home equity, $3M in retirement savings (mostly VTI / VUG), and another $500K in 529/HSA/HYSA savings.

We mostly bought a dividend ETF just because the stock market had tanked and it was on sale and we wanted to diversify.

So net ~$200k less than if you had put $2.25 million in s&p500 4 years ago. It has gone up 81% since April 21, 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HHI $1M, family of five, have never flown first class. I just can't fathom paying many times the cost to fly on the exact same aircraft to the exact same destination. Also, I wouldn't want to get my children accustomed to it. I'll admit I did look upon the first class section with envy on our trip to Europe last summer...would've been nice to stretch and sleep comfortably on the overnight flight. But I'll take a cramped, uncomfortable experience to save five figures.

With a HHI of $1 million what are you saving those 5 figures for and will the savings really make a difference to you in the long term.

If you’re brand new to that level of income and don’t expect it to last I guess it’s understandable to hoard while you can but otherwise I don’t understand why at that hhi you would deprive yourself of a far more comfortable travel /vacation experience just so that you can die with even more in the bank.

If people think that something is not worth the price they are charging they won’t buy it no matter what their income is. Not everyone cares where they sit.

Plus if HHI of $1M, that means about $500K after taxes. Then you have retirement savings, house (and all that goes with it) and cars. Possibly private school for the kids and definately college savings for the kids. Once you factor all that in, spending an extra $10-15K for business/first for a trip for 4-5 people to Europe is not worth it. It's another entire vacation somewhere stateside (with reaonsonble flights).

I'm worth 30M+ and just booked economy plus for a 1.5 hour flight, because I'm not paying an extra $200+ for first class. I'll sit in economy plus if my automatic upgrade doesn't materialize.
Sure I "could afford it". But if I do that for everything "I could afford" soon I'm spending way more than I want to. So despite having a high NW, I still value what I spend my money on and choose not to waste it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP, we’re at around $200K HHI and $2M NW and we like to travel in our family of four, but I have never had enough money and cannot imagine ever having enough money to feel that business or first class would be in our reach.

It really shouldn't be at that HHI and NW.

Shut up

WTF is your issue?

IMO, someone making $200K and only 2M NW and that has 2 kids, should not be paying for business or first class routinely (ie flying 3-4+ times per year) Most financial advisors would have a similar opinion. Just like someone making 200K shouldn't be spending $75K on a new vehicle. That money would be more beneficial going towards college savings/retirement savings.

DP. I fly business often. I spent 70k on a new car, bought a 1.2m house in a good school district. Income is 250k and financial goals are on track. Life is good. NW is 2m (not including home equity)
If you think this isn’t doable, you should take my classes on how to manage your money.

There is definitely something you are leaving out. Where did you get the downpayment for your house? How much was it? Do you have kids? Do they have college funds and who is funding it? You either have family help or had some sort of windfall/exit event you are leaving out.

Agreed. I’m the PP way upthread with the $200K HHI. We have two kids and a mortgage in DC and there’s no way we’re willing to pay for expensive plane fares or cars. (Ours are at 100K miles but we won’t replace them anytime soon). Maybe I just don’t know what I’m missing (travel a lot for work but I’m a fed so never in business class) but I don’t think so.

[Anonymous]

90% of the figures in this thread are LARPs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:90% of the figures in this thread are LARPs

What’s a LARP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that you don’t track airline miles at what income level would you start regularly flying first/ business class for just regular vacation.

Assume 2 adults and 3 kids.

Is your number based on actual experience having reached it or is it a hypothetical question only for you at this point?

Our HHI is $575K and NW is $7.5M. We never fly coach. Not ever. If a particular flight doesn’t have business class or first class (usually small regional flights), we won’t even take it. I’d rather fly at a different time of day or to a nearby city. Our family of five flies about 6 times per year. Half domestic, half international. DH flies for business 1-2 times per month in addition to our personal travel. Always business or first.

Dealing with all the clueless and unprepared people that don’t regularly travel, the overcrowded club lounges, the chaotic boarding processes, the fake service animals, the lying and self-proclaimed disabled and military travelers pushing to the front of the line, the 3+ year-old lap children, the mediocre service, the bulkhead diaper changing, the garbage on-board food, etc…. It’s all too much. The only stress reliever is knowing that at least on-board we’ll have a reasonably elevated and comfortable experience. Couldn’t handle it otherwise.

We have a dedicated divided ETF that generates about $6K per month after taxes to help offset cost differences between coach and first.

Which ETF?

5 people have asked this and the Indian ghosted us all

I can't decide if that post was satire or not. The idea of having a dedicated part of your portfolio, solely to "offset cost differences between coach and first" sure sounded ridiculous!

Not satire. During the early days of the pandemic we bought 50,000 shares of VYMI @ $45 per share. Wanted to simultaneously take advantage of low stock prices and generate a steady stream of income to counter once per year unpredictable bonuses and to pay for things like fine dining, business class airfare, luxury hotels, etc…. Now at $66 / share, so up almost 50% in 4 years. Plus we’ve generated about $550K in passive income in four years, averaging about $34K each quarter. Not bad. Otherwise we have another $750K in home equity, $3M in retirement savings (mostly VTI / VUG), and another $500K in 529/HSA/HYSA savings.

We mostly bought a dividend ETF just because the stock market had tanked and it was on sale and we wanted to diversify.

So net ~$200k less than if you had put $2.25 million in s&p500 4 years ago. It has gone up 81% since April 21, 2020.

And the S&P 500 is trading at overinflated all-time highs, and you only realize gains when selling, and in October 2022 VYMI was much more favorable than the S&P 500, and PP still has about 40% of total NW in total stock market and high growth (VUG). So, what’s your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that you don’t track airline miles at what income level would you start regularly flying first/ business class for just regular vacation.

Assume 2 adults and 3 kids.

Is your number based on actual experience having reached it or is it a hypothetical question only for you at this point?

Our HHI is $575K and NW is $7.5M. We never fly coach. Not ever. If a particular flight doesn’t have business class or first class (usually small regional flights), we won’t even take it. I’d rather fly at a different time of day or to a nearby city. Our family of five flies about 6 times per year. Half domestic, half international. DH flies for business 1-2 times per month in addition to our personal travel. Always business or first.

Dealing with all the clueless and unprepared people that don’t regularly travel, the overcrowded club lounges, the chaotic boarding processes, the fake service animals, the lying and self-proclaimed disabled and military travelers pushing to the front of the line, the 3+ year-old lap children, the mediocre service, the bulkhead diaper changing, the garbage on-board food, etc…. It’s all too much. The only stress reliever is knowing that at least on-board we’ll have a reasonably elevated and comfortable experience. Couldn’t handle it otherwise.

We have a dedicated divided ETF that generates about $6K per month after taxes to help offset cost differences between coach and first.

Which ETF?

5 people have asked this and the Indian ghosted us all

I can't decide if that post was satire or not. The idea of having a dedicated part of your portfolio, solely to "offset cost differences between coach and first" sure sounded ridiculous!

Not satire. During the early days of the pandemic we bought 50,000 shares of VYMI @ $45 per share. Wanted to simultaneously take advantage of low stock prices and generate a steady stream of income to counter once per year unpredictable bonuses and to pay for things like fine dining, business class airfare, luxury hotels, etc…. Now at $66 / share, so up almost 50% in 4 years. Plus we’ve generated about $550K in passive income in four years, averaging about $34K each quarter. Not bad. Otherwise we have another $750K in home equity, $3M in retirement savings (mostly VTI / VUG), and another $500K in 529/HSA/HYSA savings.

We mostly bought a dividend ETF just because the stock market had tanked and it was on sale and we wanted to diversify.

So net ~$200k less than if you had put $2.25 million in s&p500 4 years ago. It has gone up 81% since April 21, 2020.

Yeah this person is a moron

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HHI $1M, family of five, have never flown first class. I just can't fathom paying many times the cost to fly on the exact same aircraft to the exact same destination. Also, I wouldn't want to get my children accustomed to it. I'll admit I did look upon the first class section with envy on our trip to Europe last summer...would've been nice to stretch and sleep comfortably on the overnight flight. But I'll take a cramped, uncomfortable experience to save five figures.

With a HHI of $1 million what are you saving those 5 figures for and will the savings really make a difference to you in the long term.

If you’re brand new to that level of income and don’t expect it to last I guess it’s understandable to hoard while you can but otherwise I don’t understand why at that hhi you would deprive yourself of a far more comfortable travel /vacation experience just so that you can die with even more in the bank.

If people think that something is not worth the price they are charging they won’t buy it no matter what their income is. Not everyone cares where they sit.

+1. I was searching for a way to say this and you got it. This is exactly how we feel. Our trips are mainly domestic and 5 hours or less - always economy on those. Will sometimes do business or PE on trips to Europe if the deal is right. But usually only the overnight flight there. Usually just economy coming home. We pay almost entirely in points though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that you don’t track airline miles at what income level would you start regularly flying first/ business class for just regular vacation.

Assume 2 adults and 3 kids.

Is your number based on actual experience having reached it or is it a hypothetical question only for you at this point?

Our HHI is $575K and NW is $7.5M. We never fly coach. Not ever. If a particular flight doesn’t have business class or first class (usually small regional flights), we won’t even take it. I’d rather fly at a different time of day or to a nearby city. Our family of five flies about 6 times per year. Half domestic, half international. DH flies for business 1-2 times per month in addition to our personal travel. Always business or first.

Dealing with all the clueless and unprepared people that don’t regularly travel, the overcrowded club lounges, the chaotic boarding processes, the fake service animals, the lying and self-proclaimed disabled and military travelers pushing to the front of the line, the 3+ year-old lap children, the mediocre service, the bulkhead diaper changing, the garbage on-board food, etc…. It’s all too much. The only stress reliever is knowing that at least on-board we’ll have a reasonably elevated and comfortable experience. Couldn’t handle it otherwise.

We have a dedicated divided ETF that generates about $6K per month after taxes to help offset cost differences between coach and first.

Which ETF?

5 people have asked this and the Indian ghosted us all

I can't decide if that post was satire or not. The idea of having a dedicated part of your portfolio, solely to "offset cost differences between coach and first" sure sounded ridiculous!

Not satire. During the early days of the pandemic we bought 50,000 shares of VYMI @ $45 per share. Wanted to simultaneously take advantage of low stock prices and generate a steady stream of income to counter once per year unpredictable bonuses and to pay for things like fine dining, business class airfare, luxury hotels, etc…. Now at $66 / share, so up almost 50% in 4 years. Plus we’ve generated about $550K in passive income in four years, averaging about $34K each quarter. Not bad. Otherwise we have another $750K in home equity, $3M in retirement savings (mostly VTI / VUG), and another $500K in 529/HSA/HYSA savings.

We mostly bought a dividend ETF just because the stock market had tanked and it was on sale and we wanted to diversify.

So net ~$200k less than if you had put $2.25 million in s&p500 4 years ago. It has gone up 81% since April 21, 2020.

And the S&P 500 is trading at overinflated all-time highs, and you only realize gains when selling, and in October 2022 VYMI was much more favorable than the S&P 500, and PP still has about 40% of total NW in total stock market and high growth (VUG). So, what’s your point?

Multiple people asked what the ETF was, seemingly under the assumption that it was something special that produced outsized returns. I will say that putting a lot of money in the market generally, in spring 2020 was definitely a smart move. But the special sauce here was having $2.25 million in cash free to invest, not what stocks were chosen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HHI $1M, family of five, have never flown first class. I just can't fathom paying many times the cost to fly on the exact same aircraft to the exact same destination. Also, I wouldn't want to get my children accustomed to it. I'll admit I did look upon the first class section with envy on our trip to Europe last summer...would've been nice to stretch and sleep comfortably on the overnight flight. But I'll take a cramped, uncomfortable experience to save five figures.

With a HHI of $1 million what are you saving those 5 figures for and will the savings really make a difference to you in the long term.

If you’re brand new to that level of income and don’t expect it to last I guess it’s understandable to hoard while you can but otherwise I don’t understand why at that hhi you would deprive yourself of a far more comfortable travel /vacation experience just so that you can die with even more in the bank.

If people think that something is not worth the price they are charging they won’t buy it no matter what their income is. Not everyone cares where they sit.

Plus if HHI of $1M, that means about $500K after taxes. Then you have retirement savings, house (and all that goes with it) and cars. Possibly private school for the kids and definately college savings for the kids. Once you factor all that in, spending an extra $10-15K for business/first for a trip for 4-5 people to Europe is not worth it. It's another entire vacation somewhere stateside (with reaonsonble flights).

I'm worth 30M+ and just booked economy plus for a 1.5 hour flight, because I'm not paying an extra $200+ for first class. I'll sit in economy plus if my automatic upgrade doesn't materialize.
Sure I "could afford it". But if I do that for everything "I could afford" soon I'm spending way more than I want to. So despite having a high NW, I still value what I spend my money on and choose not to waste it.

So what do you splurge on? It’s ok to spend some money, not every decision has to maximize the financial outcome. Some like a weekly massage, others like to dine out, some like to upgrade when they are on vacation. You don’t have to do it all, but giving yourself permission to pamper a bit.