Do you fly the 737 Max?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boeing will just blame the pilots for not remembering to turn off the deicing damaging in time causing damage to the nacelle or for turning it off too soon and causing an accident from ice buildup, just like they blamed the pilots in the fatal crashes.

Can’t they design some sort of automatic reminder? Or even better or something that doesn’t require the captains actions something that automatically checks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boeing will just blame the pilots for not remembering to turn off the deicing damaging in time causing damage to the nacelle or for turning it off too soon and causing an accident from ice buildup, just like they blamed the pilots in the fatal crashes.

Can’t they design some sort of automatic reminder? Or even better or something that doesn’t require the captains actions something that automatically checks?

The pilot shouldn't have to turn off the de-icer within 5 minutes to prevent damage to a key aircraft component. Fix the darn system!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I never pick the 737 Max, but American Airlines changed its flight times during my last overseas trip in December and I ended up on it. Having flown back-to-back on a regular airline and then the 737 Max, I instantly noticed that the 737 Max was much more cramped — less space between rows, tighter fit overall. I will continue to avoid it, but not sure what to do when airlines change your plane.

That’s the problem. You have no control over the aircraft you end up in.

This. I usually look on the various apps and also flight aware to see my airline type. My spouse is Global Services, so if I fly will him I sometimes ask him to call and double check. Once I flew and said the plane wasn't a Max and I got on the plane and it was a Max. I went on the trip, but was pretty peeved that the type of plane had been changed. Now I check regularly. I used to just check when I booked the flight.

My spouse regularly flies for work and tries to avoid the Max planes (mainly due to my paranoia). He books his own work flights, not an assistant, for this reason.

I also watched Downfall: The Case about Boeing on Netflix...

Does he avoid ever driving in a car?because that would reduce his risk of serious injury/death by 100x versus avoiding a certain commercial plane type.

You should read up on risk perceptions. They are far more complex than your simplistic advice suggests.

Yes, perceptions are more complex. I am quoting the actual statistics (well, paraphrasing, admittedly).

The idea that avoiding a certain commercial plane type in the US, where there has been ONE death from an accident in FIFTEEN years, will substantively.reducd your risk, is frankly hilarious.

The 737 MAX 8 entered service in May 2017, the MAX 9 entered service in March 2018,

And how many deaths have there been on one of them in the US? Zero

If there had been a passenger in that window seat, they would have been dead.

Only if not attached with seat belt. A headrest and seat back were sucked out.

The injuries would have been fatal.

Exactly . The other woman died even though only the window blew out and she had her seatbelt on. The people in that row would have been sucked out a hole that large.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I never pick the 737 Max, but American Airlines changed its flight times during my last overseas trip in December and I ended up on it. Having flown back-to-back on a regular airline and then the 737 Max, I instantly noticed that the 737 Max was much more cramped — less space between rows, tighter fit overall. I will continue to avoid it, but not sure what to do when airlines change your plane.

That’s the problem. You have no control over the aircraft you end up in.

This. I usually look on the various apps and also flight aware to see my airline type. My spouse is Global Services, so if I fly will him I sometimes ask him to call and double check. Once I flew and said the plane wasn't a Max and I got on the plane and it was a Max. I went on the trip, but was pretty peeved that the type of plane had been changed. Now I check regularly. I used to just check when I booked the flight.

My spouse regularly flies for work and tries to avoid the Max planes (mainly due to my paranoia). He books his own work flights, not an assistant, for this reason.

I also watched Downfall: The Case about Boeing on Netflix...

Does he avoid ever driving in a car?because that would reduce his risk of serious injury/death by 100x versus avoiding a certain commercial plane type.

You should read up on risk perceptions. They are far more complex than your simplistic advice suggests.

Yes, perceptions are more complex. I am quoting the actual statistics (well, paraphrasing, admittedly).

The idea that avoiding a certain commercial plane type in the US, where there has been ONE death from an accident in FIFTEEN years, will substantively.reducd your risk, is frankly hilarious.

The 737 MAX 8 entered service in May 2017, the MAX 9 entered service in March 2018,

And how many deaths have there been on one of them in the US? Zero

If there had been a passenger in that window seat, they would have been dead.

Only if not attached with seat belt. A headrest and seat back were sucked out.

The injuries would have been fatal.

Exactly . The other woman died even though only the window blew out and she had her seatbelt on. The people in that row would have been sucked out a hole that large.

It's hard to say that for sure. This plane had a large part of its fuselage torn off,and only one flight attendant (likely standing and thus not belted in) died.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I never pick the 737 Max, but American Airlines changed its flight times during my last overseas trip in December and I ended up on it. Having flown back-to-back on a regular airline and then the 737 Max, I instantly noticed that the 737 Max was much more cramped — less space between rows, tighter fit overall. I will continue to avoid it, but not sure what to do when airlines change your plane.

That’s the problem. You have no control over the aircraft you end up in.

This. I usually look on the various apps and also flight aware to see my airline type. My spouse is Global Services, so if I fly will him I sometimes ask him to call and double check. Once I flew and said the plane wasn't a Max and I got on the plane and it was a Max. I went on the trip, but was pretty peeved that the type of plane had been changed. Now I check regularly. I used to just check when I booked the flight.

My spouse regularly flies for work and tries to avoid the Max planes (mainly due to my paranoia). He books his own work flights, not an assistant, for this reason.

I also watched Downfall: The Case about Boeing on Netflix...

Does he avoid ever driving in a car?because that would reduce his risk of serious injury/death by 100x versus avoiding a certain commercial plane type.

You should read up on risk perceptions. They are far more complex than your simplistic advice suggests.

Yes, perceptions are more complex. I am quoting the actual statistics (well, paraphrasing, admittedly).

The idea that avoiding a certain commercial plane type in the US, where there has been ONE death from an accident in FIFTEEN years, will substantively.reducd your risk, is frankly hilarious.

The 737 MAX 8 entered service in May 2017, the MAX 9 entered service in March 2018,

And how many deaths have there been on one of them in the US? Zero

If there had been a passenger in that window seat, they would have been dead.

Only if not attached with seat belt. A headrest and seat back were sucked out.

The injuries would have been fatal.

Exactly . The other woman died even though only the window blew out and she had her seatbelt on. The people in that row would have been sucked out a hole that large.

It's hard to say that for sure. This plane had a large part of its fuselage torn off,and only one flight attendant (likely standing and thus not belted in) died.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

As I recall at the time, there was at least one flight attendant who was saved from being blown out by passengers holding her down.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I never pick the 737 Max, but American Airlines changed its flight times during my last overseas trip in December and I ended up on it. Having flown back-to-back on a regular airline and then the 737 Max, I instantly noticed that the 737 Max was much more cramped — less space between rows, tighter fit overall. I will continue to avoid it, but not sure what to do when airlines change your plane.

That’s the problem. You have no control over the aircraft you end up in.

This. I usually look on the various apps and also flight aware to see my airline type. My spouse is Global Services, so if I fly will him I sometimes ask him to call and double check. Once I flew and said the plane wasn't a Max and I got on the plane and it was a Max. I went on the trip, but was pretty peeved that the type of plane had been changed. Now I check regularly. I used to just check when I booked the flight.

My spouse regularly flies for work and tries to avoid the Max planes (mainly due to my paranoia). He books his own work flights, not an assistant, for this reason.

I also watched Downfall: The Case about Boeing on Netflix...

Does he avoid ever driving in a car?because that would reduce his risk of serious injury/death by 100x versus avoiding a certain commercial plane type.

You should read up on risk perceptions. They are far more complex than your simplistic advice suggests.

Yes, perceptions are more complex. I am quoting the actual statistics (well, paraphrasing, admittedly).

The idea that avoiding a certain commercial plane type in the US, where there has been ONE death from an accident in FIFTEEN years, will substantively.reducd your risk, is frankly hilarious.

The 737 MAX 8 entered service in May 2017, the MAX 9 entered service in March 2018,

And how many deaths have there been on one of them in the US? Zero

If there had been a passenger in that window seat, they would have been dead.

Only if not attached with seat belt. A headrest and seat back were sucked out.

The injuries would have been fatal.

Exactly . The other woman died even though only the window blew out and she had her seatbelt on. The people in that row would have been sucked out a hole that large.

It's hard to say that for sure. This plane had a large part of its fuselage torn off,and only one flight attendant (likely standing and thus not belted in) died.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

Maybe only one person died but there were many injured, some severely.

https://simpleflying.com/aloha-airlines-flight-243-cabin-crew-perspective/

"At 24.000ft, the passengers remained in their seats with seatbelts on for such a short flight, and the flight attendants started their service. The lead flight attendant, Clarabelle Lansing, was at row five of the aircraft serving drinks, Jane Sato-Tomita at row two, and Michelle Honda was working at row 15.

Suddenly, there was a catastrophic explosive decompression (loss of cabin altitude) that ripped off the left side of the fuselage. The force of the decompression continued to peel back the aircraft fuselage leaving the top half front of the aircraft exposed to the elements.

The aircraft involved in the Aloha Airlines Flight 243 incident, with the front part of its fuselage removed.
Photo: NTSB via Wikimedia Commons
What happened next

Clarabelle was sucked out of the aircraft, and despite a search, her body was never found. Jane was thrown into the economy cabin covered in debris and legs trapped by wires. She suffered lacerations on her head, and was bleeding and unconscious. Michelle felt pressure on her left shoulder and was thrown shoe-less to the floor. The aircraft was filled with swirling debris, the floor at the front had buckled, and the forces of the air pressure were incomprehensible.

Michelle crawled down the aisle, holding onto the base of the seats. She understood from her training that this was a decompression from the noise, smoke and flying debris. Michelle tried to contact the flight crew but to no avail as the interphone system was destroyed. She shouted to the passengers to put on their life jackets but was struggling with the noise.

The oxygen mask system was destroyed, and the flight crew had started an emergency descent. Michelle tried to calm the passengers and sometimes found herself faced upwards on her back in the cabin, holding on for dear life. She managed to reach Jane but could not free her from the wreckage.


Aloha Air flight 243 with fuselage ripped off
It was a miracle that the aircraft could even land with the given damage. Photo: NTSB via Wikimedia commons
Emergency descent

The passengers were injured by debris and covered in blood, and Michelle continued to work her way through the aircraft, trying to console them. She saw a passenger with a piece of debris embedded in his face but knew from her first aid training that this was to be left alone, and she could not help but only console. As the aircraft was coming down to land, she tried to shout her commands 'heads down,' but no voice was coming out. She held onto whatever she could, and to Jane with the passengers' help.

Aftermath

The aircraft landed safely at the airport in Maui. Michelle started the evacuation with the help of an off-duty flight attendant, Amy Jones-Brown, who was traveling as a passenger. All passengers survived, although some were severely injured. Jane suffered a concussion and major cuts to her head and was taken to hospital. It was only then that Michelle realized that Clarabelle was missing."

[Anonymous]

We just flew the Max 8 yesterday. Our entire trip was on the Max 8. Generally, I like the plane layout but definitely not thrilled about what appears to be persistent problems. Glad we weren't on the Max 9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Surely they have fixed the problems by now.

Hahahahahahahaha

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Think nothing of it. They’ve fixed it

That's good. But who knows other problems are there we don't know about? Finding a problem by getting killed ain't no living boy.

[Anonymous]

Now United is finding loose bolts “and other parts.”

https://viewfromthewing.com/more-loose-bolts-boeing-737-max-9-problems-widespread-as-united-finds-5-faulty-planes/

[Anonymous]

Oh hell no! After the original issue I have made every effort to not fly on a 737 to the point of being okay with paying a higher airfare on Delta! I love Delta.

Anyhow here's another terrifying and eye-opening update:

"Loose bolts found on door plugs of Boeing 737 Max 9 jets, as flights canceled: United Airlines"

https://abc7.com/alaska-airlines-united-flight-canceled-flights-today/14295357/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh hell no! After the original issue I have made every effort to not fly on a 737 to the point of being okay with paying a higher airfare on Delta! I love Delta.

Anyhow here's another terrifying and eye-opening update:

"Loose bolts found on door plugs of Boeing 737 Max 9 jets, as flights canceled: United Airlines"

https://abc7.com/alaska-airlines-united-flight-canceled-flights-today/14295357/

The 737-900 has the same door plugs, and they were built up until 2020. If this is emblematic of how that part was installed the last few years, it's possible this could be wider than just the MAX.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course not. That thing crashed on the regular. I am not a bloody idiot.

+1 avoided at all costs since its launch.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I never pick the 737 Max, but American Airlines changed its flight times during my last overseas trip in December and I ended up on it. Having flown back-to-back on a regular airline and then the 737 Max, I instantly noticed that the 737 Max was much more cramped — less space between rows, tighter fit overall. I will continue to avoid it, but not sure what to do when airlines change your plane.

That’s the problem. You have no control over the aircraft you end up in.

This. I usually look on the various apps and also flight aware to see my airline type. My spouse is Global Services, so if I fly will him I sometimes ask him to call and double check. Once I flew and said the plane wasn't a Max and I got on the plane and it was a Max. I went on the trip, but was pretty peeved that the type of plane had been changed. Now I check regularly. I used to just check when I booked the flight.

My spouse regularly flies for work and tries to avoid the Max planes (mainly due to my paranoia). He books his own work flights, not an assistant, for this reason.

I also watched Downfall: The Case about Boeing on Netflix...

Does he avoid ever driving in a car?because that would reduce his risk of serious injury/death by 100x versus avoiding a certain commercial plane type.

You should read up on risk perceptions. They are far more complex than your simplistic advice suggests.

Yes, perceptions are more complex. I am quoting the actual statistics (well, paraphrasing, admittedly).

The idea that avoiding a certain commercial plane type in the US, where there has been ONE death from an accident in FIFTEEN years, will substantively.reducd your risk, is frankly hilarious.

The 737 MAX 8 entered service in May 2017, the MAX 9 entered service in March 2018,

And how many deaths have there been on one of them in the US? Zero

If there had been a passenger in that window seat, they would have been dead.

Only if not attached with seat belt. A headrest and seat back were sucked out.

Wrong. The woman partially sucked out of the Southwest plane in 2018 was still attached by her seatbelt but the trauma to her upper body. https://abc13.com/amp/philadelphia-southwest-airlines-emergency-landing-international-airport/4691167/

Yup and that was the window that blew out, not a whole panel.

[Anonymous]

Alaska Airlines now reporting finding "loose hardware" upon initial inspection on other aircraft just like United:

https://news.alaskaair.com/alaska-airlines/operations/as-1282/

I've previously paid no attention to aircraft type when booking but that may change now.