It is Native American heritage month. What stolen land do you live on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is clearly a parallel to what is happening in Israel right now…

+1 It's quite funny.
Every time a similar topic pops up, most Americans are "meh, history is written by the conquerers, that's how it's always been and no need to feel bad about it." However look at all the heartbroken, stressed out folks (even on DCUM!) over conflicts in the Middle East, Ukraine, etc...

We can at least be more consistent - "meh, history will play itself out so let's sit back and see who wins the fighting in the Middle East/ (insert any on-going conflict)" instead of "ohh this is not right, there are victims dying!! We must stand up for justice!!"

Funny, I feel it's the opposite. Americans are expected to feel guilty for living on "stolen land" but Palestinians are CURRENTLY being forced out of their homes with incredibly violent methods (over 10,000 dead this year alone) and we're supposed to cheer on the Israelis? It's a very interesting double standard.

Blah blah blah.

The first reference to “Israel” as a land inhabited by Jews, known as Israelis, dates to 1205 BCE. Nearly 2 millennia before Islam even existed. If we’re going to play silly games about who is “indigenous” to a place, let’s at least be factual.

As it happens, I don’t really care about that. Israelis generally subscribe to Judeo-Christian western values. They are a democracy. They respect indivisible rights. They don’t hang homosexuals or legalize the beating of women. In short, they’re better people.

Lands change hands across history. While it’s by no means assured, we are fortunate that the best (though by no means perfect) nations, for now, have done the best.

They actually dont. For example, Jews believe Jesus was a false prophet who's burning in hell. Muslims believe Jesus was a revered prophet and actually respect him.

Jewish theologian here, and Jews do not believe Jesus is burning in hell, and I have no idea where you got that from. Judaism doesn't even require a concept of hell to begin with.

Land rights have been fought over throughout human history. That's like what most wars were about.

Many if not most Christians believe that Mohammed was a false prophet, so there’s that. Most Christians are aware that Jesus was a Jew.

I’m not sure what either has to do with Native Americans though. Are the Native Americans the Jews or Palestinians in this analogy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gotten seriously derailed.

Land acknowledgments are such a silly pretension.

Agreed. At what point in history are we supposed to return to? Get over it, your ancestors lost. Now try to move on and live well in the society that now exists here.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we should have a full on Truth and Reconciliation Committee where we can figure out down to the first group who held the land. Can’t stop at the last pre-European land holder bc such people absolutely fought and defeated a previous occupant. Without getting to the first rightful owner, no one has gotten anywhere.

Apparently it was Europeans, specifically the Vikings, so the Scandinavians, who arrived on North American land first.

The Irish. Brendan the Navigator apparently was here circa. AD 512-530. The Vikings didn't get here until AD 1021.

[Anonymous]

There is evidence the Egyptians were here in the time before Christ.

Stolen land? Maybe go look up history or Ghenghis khan and how many people does because of him.

Speaking of history, Israel isn’t stolen land by the Jews. The land was voted on by the UN and given to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gotten seriously derailed.

Land acknowledgments are such a silly pretension.

Agreed. At what point in history are we supposed to return to? Get over it, your ancestors lost. Now try to move on and live well in the society that now exists here.

Agreed.

Do you get to tell people to "just get over" genocide of their people? I doubt you would feel the same if your family was murdered and they took your home and all your possessions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s give it back.

#landback.org

I think we stole it from Algonkians. They can get over it. We bested them in battle. They were weak. We won. No need to fuss over it now. To the victor go the spoils and all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gotten seriously derailed.

Land acknowledgments are such a silly pretension.

Agreed. At what point in history are we supposed to return to? Get over it, your ancestors lost. Now try to move on and live well in the society that now exists here.

Agreed.

Do you get to tell people to "just get over" genocide of their people? I doubt you would feel the same if your family was murdered and they took your home and all your possessions.

This happened HUNDREDS of year ago - no one living today has any memory or close connection to the Native American tribes who used to live on these lands. And I expect if everyone looks as far back (or not even) in their ancestry they will find similar instances of losing ancestors to war/genocide/forced relocation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gotten seriously derailed.

Land acknowledgments are such a silly pretension.

Agreed. At what point in history are we supposed to return to? Get over it, your ancestors lost. Now try to move on and live well in the society that now exists here.

Agreed.

Do you get to tell people to "just get over" genocide of their people? I doubt you would feel the same if your family was murdered and they took your home and all your possessions.

Yes. This did happen to my people. I am of Irish descent, my ancestors were conquered by the English. They fled to American and made a new life here peacefully. They did not drag terror extremism to American, they worked hard to make a better living here in their new homeland and condemned the use of terrorist groups (IRA) back in their native country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gotten seriously derailed.

Land acknowledgments are such a silly pretension.

Agreed. At what point in history are we supposed to return to? Get over it, your ancestors lost. Now try to move on and live well in the society that now exists here.

Agreed.

Do you get to tell people to "just get over" genocide of their people? I doubt you would feel the same if your family was murdered and they took your home and all your possessions.

I hate to restart this topic, but my family was murdered by the Nazis, they took their homes and all of their possessions. And yes, while I may feel a little awkward grabbing a beer at Oktoberfest in Munich, I have gotten over it. I have zero ill will towards Germans and do not demand anything from any of them. Towards the very end of their lives, my grandparents got reparations, but I would never dream of asking for them.

Why? For me and my sanity. If you are a Christian, you should believe in forgiveness. You forgive those who have sinned against you because it frees you to do other things instead of carrying hatred in your heart.

The only way is to look forward, not backwards. And the best thing to do is to live in the present and focus on what you can do now to improve your life. If I were Native American, my beef would be with tribal leadership. A lot of money is being made from casinos and for some reason it isn’t making it to the people. I would ask about that, rather than demanding land from what I would call squatters who long ago gained property rights over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is clearly a parallel to what is happening in Israel right now…

+1 It's quite funny.
Every time a similar topic pops up, most Americans are "meh, history is written by the conquerers, that's how it's always been and no need to feel bad about it." However look at all the heartbroken, stressed out folks (even on DCUM!) over conflicts in the Middle East, Ukraine, etc...

We can at least be more consistent - "meh, history will play itself out so let's sit back and see who wins the fighting in the Middle East/ (insert any on-going conflict)" instead of "ohh this is not right, there are victims dying!! We must stand up for justice!!"

Funny, I feel it's the opposite. Americans are expected to feel guilty for living on "stolen land" but Palestinians are CURRENTLY being forced out of their homes with incredibly violent methods (over 10,000 dead this year alone) and we're supposed to cheer on the Israelis? It's a very interesting double standard.

Blah blah blah.

The first reference to “Israel” as a land inhabited by Jews, known as Israelis, dates to 1205 BCE. Nearly 2 millennia before Islam even existed. If we’re going to play silly games about who is “indigenous” to a place, let’s at least be factual.

As it happens, I don’t really care about that. Israelis generally subscribe to Judeo-Christian western values. They are a democracy. They respect indivisible rights. They don’t hang homosexuals or legalize the beating of women. In short, they’re better people.

Lands change hands across history. While it’s by no means assured, we are fortunate that the best (though by no means perfect) nations, for now, have done the best.

They actually dont. For example, Jews believe Jesus was a false prophet who's burning in hell. Muslims believe Jesus was a revered prophet and actually respect him.

Jewish theologian here, and Jews do not believe Jesus is burning in hell, and I have no idea where you got that from. Judaism doesn't even require a concept of hell to begin with.

Land rights have been fought over throughout human history. That's like what most wars were about.

Many if not most Christians believe that Mohammed was a false prophet, so there’s that. Most Christians are aware that Jesus was a Jew.

I’m not sure what either has to do with Native Americans though. Are the Native Americans the Jews or Palestinians in this analogy?

Christians are not aware that Jesus was a Jew because he could not have been a Jew and believed He was the Son of God, as he said he was many times. Saying that Jesus thought he was a Jew is saying He didn't believe He was the Son of God, which would imply he deliberately lied and deceived people and goes against literally every doctrine of Him in Christianity. How people can keep clinging to a belief that has literally zero bearing in reality in order to create some weird, false "kumbaya" harmony between two discordant belief systems is very strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is clearly a parallel to what is happening in Israel right now…

+1 It's quite funny.
Every time a similar topic pops up, most Americans are "meh, history is written by the conquerers, that's how it's always been and no need to feel bad about it." However look at all the heartbroken, stressed out folks (even on DCUM!) over conflicts in the Middle East, Ukraine, etc...

We can at least be more consistent - "meh, history will play itself out so let's sit back and see who wins the fighting in the Middle East/ (insert any on-going conflict)" instead of "ohh this is not right, there are victims dying!! We must stand up for justice!!"

Funny, I feel it's the opposite. Americans are expected to feel guilty for living on "stolen land" but Palestinians are CURRENTLY being forced out of their homes with incredibly violent methods (over 10,000 dead this year alone) and we're supposed to cheer on the Israelis? It's a very interesting double standard.

Blah blah blah.

The first reference to “Israel” as a land inhabited by Jews, known as Israelis, dates to 1205 BCE. Nearly 2 millennia before Islam even existed. If we’re going to play silly games about who is “indigenous” to a place, let’s at least be factual.

As it happens, I don’t really care about that. Israelis generally subscribe to Judeo-Christian western values. They are a democracy. They respect indivisible rights. They don’t hang homosexuals or legalize the beating of women. In short, they’re better people.

Lands change hands across history. While it’s by no means assured, we are fortunate that the best (though by no means perfect) nations, for now, have done the best.

They actually dont. For example, Jews believe Jesus was a false prophet who's burning in hell. Muslims believe Jesus was a revered prophet and actually respect him.

Jewish theologian here, and Jews do not believe Jesus is burning in hell, and I have no idea where you got that from. Judaism doesn't even require a concept of hell to begin with.

Land rights have been fought over throughout human history. That's like what most wars were about.

Many if not most Christians believe that Mohammed was a false prophet, so there’s that. Most Christians are aware that Jesus was a Jew.

I’m not sure what either has to do with Native Americans though. Are the Native Americans the Jews or Palestinians in this analogy?

Christians are not aware that Jesus was a Jew because he could not have been a Jew and believed He was the Son of God, as he said he was many times. Saying that Jesus thought he was a Jew is saying He didn't believe He was the Son of God, which would imply he deliberately lied and deceived people and goes against literally every doctrine of Him in Christianity. How people can keep clinging to a belief that has literally zero bearing in reality in order to create some weird, false "kumbaya" harmony between two discordant belief systems is very strange.

Dear lord, you’re not at this again are you?!?

The Gospels were written years after Jesus died. There was even a Gospel by Mary Magdalene that didn’t make it into the New Testament, you can guess why. We don’t know exactly what he did or didn’t say about himself because we only hear his words through the Gospels. We do know, however, that his last supper was a Passover sedar.

Please stop arguing this point. You sound so dumb.

https://www.college.columbia.edu/core/content/new-testament/context#:~:text=The%20four%20canonical%20gospels—Matthew,30%20CE).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is clearly a parallel to what is happening in Israel right now…

+1 It's quite funny.
Every time a similar topic pops up, most Americans are "meh, history is written by the conquerers, that's how it's always been and no need to feel bad about it." However look at all the heartbroken, stressed out folks (even on DCUM!) over conflicts in the Middle East, Ukraine, etc...

We can at least be more consistent - "meh, history will play itself out so let's sit back and see who wins the fighting in the Middle East/ (insert any on-going conflict)" instead of "ohh this is not right, there are victims dying!! We must stand up for justice!!"

Funny, I feel it's the opposite. Americans are expected to feel guilty for living on "stolen land" but Palestinians are CURRENTLY being forced out of their homes with incredibly violent methods (over 10,000 dead this year alone) and we're supposed to cheer on the Israelis? It's a very interesting double standard.

Blah blah blah.

The first reference to “Israel” as a land inhabited by Jews, known as Israelis, dates to 1205 BCE. Nearly 2 millennia before Islam even existed. If we’re going to play silly games about who is “indigenous” to a place, let’s at least be factual.

As it happens, I don’t really care about that. Israelis generally subscribe to Judeo-Christian western values. They are a democracy. They respect indivisible rights. They don’t hang homosexuals or legalize the beating of women. In short, they’re better people.

Lands change hands across history. While it’s by no means assured, we are fortunate that the best (though by no means perfect) nations, for now, have done the best.

They actually dont. For example, Jews believe Jesus was a false prophet who's burning in hell. Muslims believe Jesus was a revered prophet and actually respect him.

Jewish theologian here, and Jews do not believe Jesus is burning in hell, and I have no idea where you got that from. Judaism doesn't even require a concept of hell to begin with.

Land rights have been fought over throughout human history. That's like what most wars were about.

Many if not most Christians believe that Mohammed was a false prophet, so there’s that. Most Christians are aware that Jesus was a Jew.

I’m not sure what either has to do with Native Americans though. Are the Native Americans the Jews or Palestinians in this analogy?

Christians are not aware that Jesus was a Jew because he could not have been a Jew and believed He was the Son of God, as he said he was many times. Saying that Jesus thought he was a Jew is saying He didn't believe He was the Son of God, which would imply he deliberately lied and deceived people and goes against literally every doctrine of Him in Christianity. How people can keep clinging to a belief that has literally zero bearing in reality in order to create some weird, false "kumbaya" harmony between two discordant belief systems is very strange.

Dear lord, you’re not at this again are you?!?

The Gospels were written years after Jesus died. There was even a Gospel by Mary Magdalene that didn’t make it into the New Testament, you can guess why. We don’t know exactly what he did or didn’t say about himself because we only hear his words through the Gospels. We do know, however, that his last supper was a Passover sedar.

Please stop arguing this point. You sound so dumb.

https://www.college.columbia.edu/core/content/new-testament/context#:~:text=The%20four%20canonical%20gospels—Matthew,30%20CE).

How is the fact that Gospels were written after Jesus died relevant to the fact that your assertion LITERALLY CONTRADICTS THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE RELIGION. Why not just give up your ridiculous attempts to rope Christians into supporting the genocidal actions of a country halfway around the world? JESUS WAS NOT A JEW. That's kind of the entire point of the whole thing!!!

[Anonymous]

Now the last supper was a Passover seder?

Every time it gets more and more absurd. If it wasn't so disrespectful to members of a religion you're clumsily attempting to get on your side it would be comical. What on earth are you doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now the last supper was a Passover seder?

Every time it gets more and more absurd. If it wasn't so disrespectful to members of a religion you're clumsily attempting to get on your side it would be comical. What on earth are you doing?

Your ignorance is simply astounding! You might just be the must uneducated person I have ever encountered. It’s remarkable.

Yes, JESUS WAS A JEW!!!! That’s not a disputed point by any Christian or biblical scholars. You can go ask the Pope, he’ll agree. Why are you arguing this? It’s nutty.

As for the last supper, well, no one knows for sure because it happened over 2,000 years ago, but the general consensus is that it was a Passover Seder. There are those who dispute that, but it’s a minority viewpoint and it’s generally from those who think the Gospels tuned Jesus’s last meal into a Seder for more effect. Here are the first three replies I found from a simple google search:

https://www.texaschildrens.org/blog/2013/03/was-meal-served-biblical-passover-seder-and-last-supper-healthy-one#:~:text=The%20Last%20Supper%20was%20a,reconciliation%20with%20God%20can%20occur.

https://bible.org/question/was-last-supper-passover-seder

https://catholicstraightanswers.com/passover-and-the-last-supper/


Although, I know you won’t read any of it. Your mind is blown that Jesus was a Jew because your minister taught you he was a Black Baptist. Why? Because your minister knows you wouldn’t be able to handle the philosophical elements of anything beyond that. He has to keep it simple for ya.

[Anonymous]

I really don't care.

Give them money or don't. Whatever.