Are bikes allowed to go through red lights on major roads?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

Cars can't see bikes, ever. Drivers can see bikes, and more importantly, people on bikes. Unfortunately, road engineering and vehicle design make it difficult for even motivated drivers to see.

"Here's how right hook crashes happen, and here are some things you can do to reduce your chances of being in a right hook crash?" Yes.

"Biking in crosswalks is unsafe!"? Nope. Stop with the victim-blaming nonsense.

I said it “can be unsafe.”

Do you describe yourself to people as an avid cyclist?

you’re being a totally idiot here. talking about how to stay safe biking is ok - you don’t need to maintain some kind of rigid messaging discipline where nobody is allowed to acknowledge that you can do things to bike more safely.

Don't even engage with this guy. He lives to troll drivers. He's on every single thread that has remotely anything to do bikes, posting compulsively. I think this entire thread is a whole bunch of drivers arguing with this one batshit crazy cyclist.

He was on another thread arguing that making fun of cyclists wearing spandex is a form of discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

It's not ideology, but if you don't repeat the idea that a driver who hits a person in a crosswalk deserves a significant share — if not virtually all — of the blame, then people on here will continue to think that drivers can never do any wrong when it comes to cyclists or pedestrians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

It's not ideology, but if you don't repeat the idea that a driver who hits a person in a crosswalk deserves a significant share — if not virtually all — of the blame, then people on here will continue to think that drivers can never do any wrong when it comes to cyclists or pedestrians.

Ok, crazy pants. Time to close the browser. (Also, I think it's the police's job to figure out who is in the wrong when there's an accident).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

It's not ideology, but if you don't repeat the idea that a driver who hits a person in a crosswalk deserves a significant share — if not virtually all — of the blame, then people on here will continue to think that drivers can never do any wrong when it comes to cyclists or pedestrians.

Ok, crazy pants. Time to close the browser. (Also, I think it's the police's job to figure out who is in the wrong when there's an accident).

I don't think there's much to figure out if a car turning from one street to another hits someone in a crosswalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

It's not ideology, but if you don't repeat the idea that a driver who hits a person in a crosswalk deserves a significant share — if not virtually all — of the blame, then people on here will continue to think that drivers can never do any wrong when it comes to cyclists or pedestrians.

I’m not interested in ideologically browbeating people. I’m interested in people biking safely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

It's not ideology, but if you don't repeat the idea that a driver who hits a person in a crosswalk deserves a significant share — if not virtually all — of the blame, then people on here will continue to think that drivers can never do any wrong when it comes to cyclists or pedestrians.

I’m not interested in ideologically browbeating people. I’m interested in people biking safely.

Yeah, a desire to bike safely is among the reasons why I generally don't ride in crosswalks. But you're not going to achieve much in terms of actual bike safety education on an anonymous message board. This place is made for browbeating!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

It's not ideology, but if you don't repeat the idea that a driver who hits a person in a crosswalk deserves a significant share — if not virtually all — of the blame, then people on here will continue to think that drivers can never do any wrong when it comes to cyclists or pedestrians.

I’m not interested in ideologically browbeating people. I’m interested in people biking safely.

There are things you can do to reduce your risk, when you're bicycling. But as long as there are dangerous drivers, going at dangerous speeds, in dangerous vehicles, on dangerous roads, a lot of the risk is simply not under your control. I have only been hit once - it was a dooring - but I don't think that means I bike safely; I think it means I've been lucky. Conversely, a close family member, who has always been very very big on bike safety, was left-hooked and seriously injured by a driver who ran a stop sign. I don't think that means my family member bikes unsafely; I think it means they got unlucky.

[Anonymous]

Riding a bike in a big city is like playing football or boxing. You should not be surprised if it gets you seriously hurt. It’s part of the deal, whether you want to admit it or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

The reason those types of “accidents” happens is because the average driver is incompetent and selfish and doesn’t give a single f*** about anyone else’s safety. You’re driving a giant and potentially lethal piece of equipment because it is more convenient for you to do so - the very least you can do is take that responsibility seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

Cars can't see bikes, ever. Drivers can see bikes, and more importantly, people on bikes. Unfortunately, road engineering and vehicle design make it difficult for even motivated drivers to see.

"Here's how right hook crashes happen, and here are some things you can do to reduce your chances of being in a right hook crash?" Yes.

"Biking in crosswalks is unsafe!"? Nope. Stop with the victim-blaming nonsense.

I said it “can be unsafe.”

Do you describe yourself to people as an avid cyclist?

you’re being a totally idiot here. talking about how to stay safe biking is ok - you don’t need to maintain some kind of rigid messaging discipline where nobody is allowed to acknowledge that you can do things to bike more safely.

Don't even engage with this guy. He lives to troll drivers. He's on every single thread that has remotely anything to do bikes, posting compulsively. I think this entire thread is a whole bunch of drivers arguing with this one batshit crazy cyclist.

He was on another thread arguing that making fun of cyclists wearing spandex is a form of discrimination.

I mean, it is gay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

Cars can't see bikes, ever. Drivers can see bikes, and more importantly, people on bikes. Unfortunately, road engineering and vehicle design make it difficult for even motivated drivers to see.

"Here's how right hook crashes happen, and here are some things you can do to reduce your chances of being in a right hook crash?" Yes.

"Biking in crosswalks is unsafe!"? Nope. Stop with the victim-blaming nonsense.

I said it “can be unsafe.”

Do you describe yourself to people as an avid cyclist?

you’re being a totally idiot here. talking about how to stay safe biking is ok - you don’t need to maintain some kind of rigid messaging discipline where nobody is allowed to acknowledge that you can do things to bike more safely.

Don't even engage with this guy. He lives to troll drivers. He's on every single thread that has remotely anything to do bikes, posting compulsively. I think this entire thread is a whole bunch of drivers arguing with this one batshit crazy cyclist.

He was on another thread arguing that making fun of cyclists wearing spandex is a form of discrimination.

I mean, it is gay.

FIFU:
I mean, it's comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
I am not a cyclist, but I don't fault cyclists for not following the law. Our transportation system was built for heavy vehicles. It's sometimes safer for bicycles to leave an intersection before all the cars start up. As such, it's an individual judgement, in the knowledge that if they get into an accident, they will be at fault and may not get compensation. However, when it's a cyclist against a car, no amount of compensation can bring them back to life, so I think it a lot of cases, legality doesn't really matter. What matters is that all drivers should stay aware on the roads and not crush a cyclist.

Correct.

You what’s a good way to get crushed by a SUV? Running stop signs

Yields at stop signs where no one is present at the intersection are legal for cyclists in DC.

The issue is blowing stop signs where there’s lots of people present. Cyclists are completely disregarding the specifics of how Idaho stops are supposed to work and just ignoring stop signs altogether. It’s amazing more aren’t killed.

Oh yeah, look at all this risky cyclists killing pedestrians by the thousa... oh wait never mind that is the drivers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

Cars can't see bikes, ever. Drivers can see bikes, and more importantly, people on bikes. Unfortunately, road engineering and vehicle design make it difficult for even motivated drivers to see.

"Here's how right hook crashes happen, and here are some things you can do to reduce your chances of being in a right hook crash?" Yes.

"Biking in crosswalks is unsafe!"? Nope. Stop with the victim-blaming nonsense.

I said it “can be unsafe.”

Do you describe yourself to people as an avid cyclist?

you’re being a totally idiot here. talking about how to stay safe biking is ok - you don’t need to maintain some kind of rigid messaging discipline where nobody is allowed to acknowledge that you can do things to bike more safely.

Don't even engage with this guy. He lives to troll drivers. He's on every single thread that has remotely anything to do bikes, posting compulsively. I think this entire thread is a whole bunch of drivers arguing with this one batshit crazy cyclist.

He was on another thread arguing that making fun of cyclists wearing spandex is a form of discrimination.

I mean, it is gay.

Pro tip: If you’re complaining about being called out for bigotry, it’s best to avoid slurs that suggest that you are in fact a bigot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Riding a bike in a big city is like playing football or boxing. You should not be surprised if it gets you seriously hurt. It’s part of the deal, whether you want to admit it or not.

No. Riding a bike, by itself, is safe. Just like walking is safe, or sitting on park bench, or sitting in outdoor seating at a restaurant, or loading groceries into your car trunk. It's the presence of cars, and people driving cars, that make all of these activities dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today, I was driving westbound on Macarthur Blvd, and I stopped at a red light. Two bicyclists, with children in tow, came up behind me, crossed four lanes of traffic to turn left onto Dana Place. I know bikes can do a rolling stop through stop signs, but is this correct behavior at a stop sign. It seemed very dangerous to me as cars were crossing Macarthur with the light.

That intersection has crosswalks on all sides. So it sounds like they were effectively turning left onto the crosswalk across MacArthur and along Dana. If there was traffic turning left off Dana onto MacArthur, they could have remained on the crosswalk and been protected by the right of way. If there was no traffic on Dana, then they can just merge from the crosswalk onto the Dana proper without any issue. A cleaner way of doing this would have been to come up onto the sidewalk of MacArthur before turning left onto the crosswalk, but either way this sounds like a perfectly safe move. Had they followed the law for cars, they’d be stuck in the left westbound lane waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear before they could turn left and would still need to worry about cars turning right from MacArthur onto Dana while running the risk of being rear-ended by a driver on MacArthur who was not paying attention. I’ll take what they did any day over that risk.

This is likely what happened. My only disagreement is that biking in the crosswalk actually can be dangerous because you’re less visible.

Less visible than what? If drivers are unable to see people who are in the crosswalk, that's a real problem.

If you’re going to bike in the city (esp with kids) you REALLY need to learn this. Biking in a crosswalk can be unsafe because cars are only looking for people moving at walking speed. You can bike through a crosswalk but you need to go slowly and look out for turning cars.

I always look for cars whenever I'm on a bike, and I don't like biking through crosswalks because I don't want to hit pedestrians. But let's be clear: The responsibility for avoiding a crash involving a vehicle turning and anyone doing anything in a crosswalk is primarily on the driver of the turning vehicle.

The responsibility to keep yourself (and your kids!) alive is yours. There’s a reason right-hook accidents are the most common - because those types of accidents are the ones where the objective physics of traffic make it most difficult for cars to see bikes. It’s absolutely idiotic to neglect to educate people on bike safety out of some kind of ideology that “cars are always at fault.”

Cars can't see bikes, ever. Drivers can see bikes, and more importantly, people on bikes. Unfortunately, road engineering and vehicle design make it difficult for even motivated drivers to see.

"Here's how right hook crashes happen, and here are some things you can do to reduce your chances of being in a right hook crash?" Yes.

"Biking in crosswalks is unsafe!"? Nope. Stop with the victim-blaming nonsense.

I said it “can be unsafe.”

Do you describe yourself to people as an avid cyclist?

you’re being a totally idiot here. talking about how to stay safe biking is ok - you don’t need to maintain some kind of rigid messaging discipline where nobody is allowed to acknowledge that you can do things to bike more safely.

Don't even engage with this guy. He lives to troll drivers. He's on every single thread that has remotely anything to do bikes, posting compulsively. I think this entire thread is a whole bunch of drivers arguing with this one batshit crazy cyclist.

He was on another thread arguing that making fun of cyclists wearing spandex is a form of discrimination.

I mean, it is gay.

Pro tip: If you’re complaining about being called out for bigotry, it’s best to avoid slurs that suggest that you are in fact a bigot.

For what it's worth - I believe I am the poster on the other thread who initially called the anti-cyclist bigot a bigot, and I wasn't calling them out, I was just stating a fact.