Are Ivy League Schools Becoming More or Less Popular?

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09/18/2023 08:57

Subject: Are Ivy League Schools Becoming More or Less Popular?

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Anonymous wrote:Ivies used to have a monopoly or close to it in the smartest kids, so it was a useful signal, but nowadays the gap between these elite schools and so called second tier schools is very narrow. Just look at standardized test data. Plus there is the recognition that while half the class at Ivies are top notch students, the other half are hooked, beneficiaries of woke policies, etc.

For example, the intellectual gap between the average Ivy League student and the average SLAC student is minor at this point. Thirty years ago it was more significant.

How stupid are you? Do you know how many recruited athletes are at SLACs? You think they don’t have DEI? I mean make an argument but try one that isn’t so dumb.

The argument is that a kid who went to say Bowdoin or Michigan OOS 30 years ago was not usually of the same caliber academically as a kid who went to Yale. Now that difference has become much smaller. It’s a supply demand thing. To illustrate with hypothetical numbers, there used to be 1000 elite students (basically similar aptitude) applying to colleges and the Ivies etc had 1000 seats. Now there are 2000 elite students and 1100 seats. So there is more overflow into the other schools. The difference between a Hamilton kid and a Brown kid was big in 1995. Now there really isn’t one.

No that wasn’t the argument. The argument is that Ivy League students are being dumbed down. That’s the explanation for the lack of a gap.

Your take might be true a limited number of SLACs. But hey if it makes you feel better about your Grinnell or Hamilton kid by all means stay in your fantasyland.

It was a combination. Due to affluence and demographics, we have more supply of “elite” students. Due to DEI, we have more seats (half?) at Ivy League and all top schools allocated to kids for non-meritocratic reasons. So it’s like musical chairs. More kids are playing and there are fewer seats. The result is the Ivies cannot absorb all the elite students and they flow down to schools historically seen as second tier. As a result the difference in the quality of the student body at second tier now is pretty minor if it exists at all. 30 years ago the kid who got 1500 would get into Yale and the kid who got 1240 would get into Colby. Today it is the kid who got 1540 gets into Yale and the kid who got 1500 gets into Colby. Do you understand?

Anyone who has been through this process realizes this when you see which kids land where and why. For the most part the kids from high income backgrounds going to ivies as opposed to the next level down are athletes, legacies or otherwise hooked.

This is a very good interpretation of the current elite college landscape.

Do you think there are any changes trickling down to the t75-t50 level colleges? What is the impact amongst the rest of the field?

Thanks. It’s really just economics 101. There is a compression of talent at the top now. Yes I think 50-75 definitely affected.

“ Anyone who has been through this process realizes this when you see which kids land where and why. For the most part the kids from high income backgrounds going to ivies as opposed to the next level down are athletes, legacies or otherwise hooked.”

Anybody who has been through the college process knows that LACs have a huge percentage of athletes, legacies and hooked kids. What they don’t really have is non-white kids, so that’s really your point - that’s why you think all these kids are smart and talented.

I think they are smart and talented because they are smart and talented. Just look at the CDS data. While LACs are “whiter” vs the Ivies now for a variety of reasons, a lot has to do with Asian percentages. Asians seem to prefer the larger schools with more stem focus and well known brand names. So the point is LACs today have the look and feel of Ivies yesterday, for better or worse.

But let’s be fair, even the least diverse LACs are only like 75 pct white. The country is 50 pct white.