two kids in college - what is prestige worth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How would anyone?

The pushback of “why do homework to get a ballpark when you can’t be 100% sure - much better to wing it” confounds me.

Because Princeton is the right choice and OP is just getting cold feet about it. OP should have planned better BEFORE letting his first kid apply and set them up for stress and angst, which OP describes as thoughtful deliberation… no, at this point, it’s stress, and ALL because OP did not do their financial homework when it should have been done.

If you thought you couldn’t afford two private college costs, then you should have been upfront about that last year, or called around last year. Now she’s in, find a way to send your kid to Princeton already, dumbass!!!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wish this forum had more people with kids in their 20s and 30s.

Everything is So Important when you're living through it and it's what your circle is talking about 24/7. Preschool seemed awfully important to me at one time - now I look back and shake my head. I know parents who look back on college and feel the same. Plenty of kids graduate from Top Name College and now they work in tutoring, or in non--profit work, or are project managers making 65k. And that's all just great. But unless you're super rich, there's a lot to be said for having some money available for a down payment and that 35k rolled from the 529 to their Roth. Prestige lasts a lifetime but so does that ROTH IRA. I had to get 40k together to put down money on my first place - and real estate is where most of our net worth comes from. So many millennials priced out of home ownership. The math our kids are looking at is a lot different.

Great post.

"Prestige lasts a lifetime" UNLESS the student attends graduate school or a professional school (MD, JD, or MBA).

And even if not, the importance of prestige declines as you get more experience. Until recently, when the topic came up since a couple of us have kids going through the process, I had no idea where my coworkers went to college. Turns out, a range from highly selective to regional publics to never-heard-of-it LACs. We all work for the same "brand name" company. Yes, I know in certain particular fields it matters. But not for the great majority of them.

Also, prestige can grow. I went to U of Chicago. And people think that means something. But back in the Ancient Days, I think the acceptance rate was something like 35%. It was a good school then too. Grinnell will have single digit acceptances within 3 years is my bet, if it doesn't now. It's a rich school. But ITA -- I have no idea where any of my colleagues went to college.

I don't believe that Prestige is important at all, it is where is a good fit for the student. My DH went to U Chicago Law School and is a successful career SES lawyer, no one knows where he went to school. I have a finance degree (BS only) from VT and make 2X's the salary. No one cares where you went to school after your first job and if you get good grades at any decent school with a good major, you will be recruited for a good entry job. Both of our kids are in college now, one at a top SLAC school (needed a smaller environment), one at state flagship school (lives their best life every game day). Both are happy, doing well in classes and have fun activities and friends. Send your kid to best school for them.

But if your husband wanted to transition to biglaw, he likely could. His financial upside, even mid-career, is significantly higher than yours. The prestige of his law school and contacts would likely make that easier too.

NP. Very very unlikely unless DH brings a rare skill that the firm needs. Usually biglaw associates move the other way - to government. Only the big cheese who previously made partner, have a portfolio,, or a body of knowledge that the firm needs, go from SES to biglaw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are more go-getters at Princeton, if you care about financial success either through your own career, your career network, friends, or a potential spouse. If you study something remotely quantitive or entrepreneurial at Princeton, and are willing to leverage that in the working world, the financial payoff can be in the millions, or more, over a lifetime.

There's also serious grade deflation at Princeton - and competition - which can hurt if you are subsequently applying to law school

[Anonymous]

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OP is off in Lala-Land while his first child is sweating bullets this close to Decision Day.

Not cool, OP. Your cold feet are hurting your kids. Typical of a certain type of bean-counter.

You should have been upfront with your kids about you finances before they applied anywhere.

You're literally making this up. Why I have no idea. We called schools to ask for clarity on what happens next year when she got the acceptances. I'm sorry I didn't alert DC Urban Moms and Dads then, I guess? A lot of kids are still weighing decisions rn. Accepted students day at Princeton as last week ffs. For my child-of-bean-counters, decision-making includes how to allocate a big chunk of money set aside for college. Do she want to keep some powder dry for grad school? Do she want to do a gap year and get more FA next year (suggested by two schools - who also want the best for these kids)? She's a smart kid making smart decisions. I'm super proud.

You guys are talking about this with one week to go? I can understand a teen not having a great sense of timing, but you, the adult? You're cutting it a bit close to be still talking about a gap year in April of senior year!
The allocation of money was something you were supposed to do for the past 18 years, my friend. Calling around frantically now isn't going to change much.

DP. Last year with 1 week to go, my kid was meeting with various dept chairs and waiting for results of FA appeals at 3 T15 schools. "Calling around frantically " saved us 8k. Per year.

What iswrong here that you need to chastise?

People like this poster are honestly a problem. You went all "Karen" frantically appealing FA results sucking up more of the budget while the people who probably really need the money don't end up with it (you didn't mention any actually flawed FA data). I'm guessing you're a homeowner with a fair amount of equity there and in your retirement account they can't touch and would call yourself UMC to a non-FA officer?

What a rush to judgment. We are not UMC. We appealed based on lower income in '21 than '20. The other contacting was to see if the colleges that were more expensive were worth the additional cost so DD was talking to various faculty. So, because we made less money and realized that would be important for the unis to know, that makes me a "Karen?" You sure bandy that term around loosely. And, actually, "Karen" refers to someone who pre-judges others based on their own entitlements, so look in the mirror, babe.

Honestly, why do people feel the need to denigrate others when it's so unnecessary? Our EFC is not high. We need the FA. The week spent comparing schools and talking to FA office was fruitful. You stink.

It is a big misstep to talk to faculty about whether their schools are "worth it," especially after being admitted as an undergrad. Others, please don't do this (it is a bad look).

Not true. My DC did this comparing aerospace programs after admitted. The faculty were thrilled to talk to her and compare their institution to others.

[Anonymous]

Major matters. If it were top in the field of intended study--that's the one to attend (particularly in liberal arts, less so in STEM).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Major matters. If it were top in the field of intended study--that's the one to attend (particularly in liberal arts, less so in STEM).

You don’t know what the term “liberal arts” means

[Anonymous]

Again, the kid is leaning towards Williams. Which is more than Princeton.

I get that this crowd would push their kid into the lower priced, bigger name school - but we don't all think this way.

[Anonymous]

If paying full price, Princeton University is the wiser choice versus Williams College.

What would justify a full-pay student selecting Williams College over Princeton University ?

[Anonymous]

Parchment shows that when deciding between Williams College and Princeton University, 80% choose Princeton.

Princeton loses to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, & Yale.

[Anonymous]

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OP is off in Lala-Land while his first child is sweating bullets this close to Decision Day.

Not cool, OP. Your cold feet are hurting your kids. Typical of a certain type of bean-counter.

You should have been upfront with your kids about you finances before they applied anywhere.

You're literally making this up. Why I have no idea. We called schools to ask for clarity on what happens next year when she got the acceptances. I'm sorry I didn't alert DC Urban Moms and Dads then, I guess? A lot of kids are still weighing decisions rn. Accepted students day at Princeton as last week ffs. For my child-of-bean-counters, decision-making includes how to allocate a big chunk of money set aside for college. Do she want to keep some powder dry for grad school? Do she want to do a gap year and get more FA next year (suggested by two schools - who also want the best for these kids)? She's a smart kid making smart decisions. I'm super proud.

You guys are talking about this with one week to go? I can understand a teen not having a great sense of timing, but you, the adult? You're cutting it a bit close to be still talking about a gap year in April of senior year!
The allocation of money was something you were supposed to do for the past 18 years, my friend. Calling around frantically now isn't going to change much.

DP. Last year with 1 week to go, my kid was meeting with various dept chairs and waiting for results of FA appeals at 3 T15 schools. "Calling around frantically " saved us 8k. Per year.

What iswrong here that you need to chastise?

People like this poster are honestly a problem. You went all "Karen" frantically appealing FA results sucking up more of the budget while the people who probably really need the money don't end up with it (you didn't mention any actually flawed FA data). I'm guessing you're a homeowner with a fair amount of equity there and in your retirement account they can't touch and would call yourself UMC to a non-FA officer?

What a rush to judgment. We are not UMC. We appealed based on lower income in '21 than '20. The other contacting was to see if the colleges that were more expensive were worth the additional cost so DD was talking to various faculty. So, because we made less money and realized that would be important for the unis to know, that makes me a "Karen?" You sure bandy that term around loosely. And, actually, "Karen" refers to someone who pre-judges others based on their own entitlements, so look in the mirror, babe.

Honestly, why do people feel the need to denigrate others when it's so unnecessary? Our EFC is not high. We need the FA. The week spent comparing schools and talking to FA office was fruitful. You stink.

It is a big misstep to talk to faculty about whether their schools are "worth it," especially after being admitted as an undergrad. Others, please don't do this (it is a bad look).

Oh, please. Stop twisting words. The kid talked to faculty about program resources and opportunities and never asked whether "their schools are 'worth it.'" Just stop with all the assumptions. The faculty were very helpful and provided needed info that helped with the decision. Not a bad look at all.

Your "tut tut"ing is the bad look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP is off in Lala-Land while his first child is sweating bullets this close to Decision Day.

Not cool, OP. Your cold feet are hurting your kids. Typical of a certain type of bean-counter.

You should have been upfront with your kids about you finances before they applied anywhere.

You're literally making this up. Why I have no idea. We called schools to ask for clarity on what happens next year when she got the acceptances. I'm sorry I didn't alert DC Urban Moms and Dads then, I guess? A lot of kids are still weighing decisions rn. Accepted students day at Princeton as last week ffs. For my child-of-bean-counters, decision-making includes how to allocate a big chunk of money set aside for college. Do she want to keep some powder dry for grad school? Do she want to do a gap year and get more FA next year (suggested by two schools - who also want the best for these kids)? She's a smart kid making smart decisions. I'm super proud.

You guys are talking about this with one week to go? I can understand a teen not having a great sense of timing, but you, the adult? You're cutting it a bit close to be still talking about a gap year in April of senior year!
The allocation of money was something you were supposed to do for the past 18 years, my friend. Calling around frantically now isn't going to change much.

DP. Last year with 1 week to go, my kid was meeting with various dept chairs and waiting for results of FA appeals at 3 T15 schools. "Calling around frantically " saved us 8k. Per year.

What iswrong here that you need to chastise?

People like this poster are honestly a problem. You went all "Karen" frantically appealing FA results sucking up more of the budget while the people who probably really need the money don't end up with it (you didn't mention any actually flawed FA data). I'm guessing you're a homeowner with a fair amount of equity there and in your retirement account they can't touch and would call yourself UMC to a non-FA officer?

What a rush to judgment. We are not UMC. We appealed based on lower income in '21 than '20. The other contacting was to see if the colleges that were more expensive were worth the additional cost so DD was talking to various faculty. So, because we made less money and realized that would be important for the unis to know, that makes me a "Karen?" You sure bandy that term around loosely. And, actually, "Karen" refers to someone who pre-judges others based on their own entitlements, so look in the mirror, babe.

Honestly, why do people feel the need to denigrate others when it's so unnecessary? Our EFC is not high. We need the FA. The week spent comparing schools and talking to FA office was fruitful. You stink.

I would agree that pushing back at the last minute also isn't an amazing thing to do when it isn't based on any merit. When you say "saved us 8k," it also didn't sound like you were not going to be able to afford it otherwise. It looked more like a pat on the back for saving yourself the money at the last minute. The point is that the money had to come from somewhere FA budget wise and maybe your family that goes through multiple appeal processes and escalates isn't the one that needs it most. But you could actually be fairly poor and if that is the case then the strategy was a true positive though trying to do things earlier would have been ideal.
I am also interested if you are a homeowner with decent retirement accounts though. Would you mind answering that bit? A lot of the FA stories on DCUM feel a bit fringe in terms of true need. The same parents trying to game admissions too often turn their attempts to the FA office too.

Firstly, why would you read so much into someone's experience appealing their FA when you know none of the details? We gave the 2 schools dd was down to info on our current income which had decreased from the previous year. That is NOT gaming the system. Not sure how we would have addressed it earlier as she had only just visited the last school. She contacted that school in person while on the visit, and theit FA officer advised her to submit updated income info. But, getting in the current info put us into the last week. We had only gotten the admissions and FA a couple weeks before. I don't know why you keep assuming someone else should get this FA. If the school thought that, they wouldn't have granted our D's appeal. Our efc is in the 30k range. We have some retirement, not a ton because I don't have benefits, but schools don't consider retirement accounts anyway.

I posted to try to help and encourage OP. Not sure why the need to pounce with assumptions and judgments.

[Anonymous]

In my opinion, make DC1 go to Princeton or make up the difference by taking out extra loans.

This isn’t about a conflict between Yale and community college.

It’s between two terrific schools, with one having much more generous aid than the other. It would be unfair to DC1 to make DC1 go to NOVA, but it would be unfair to DC2 to let DC1 burn money for fun by going to the more expensive school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If paying full price, Princeton University is the wiser choice versus Williams College.

What would justify a full-pay student selecting Williams College over Princeton University ?

Um, going to arguably the best liberal arts college in the country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If paying full price, Princeton University is the wiser choice versus Williams College.

What would justify a full-pay student selecting Williams College over Princeton University ?

Um, going to arguably the best liberal arts college in the country?

Princeton has by far the better world name recognition. My kid desperately wanted to get in but got the soft rejection deferral

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because Grinnell's endowment was in Berkshire Hathaway stock in in the 60s and because it was the principal capital source for Intel. They later put a lot of their money into the Sequoia fund.

Nobody claims Princeton had such generous aid because they can't get kids to apply.

OP, you were complaining about how no one you know has heard of Grinnell. We were explaining that the big merit $$ from Grinnell gives out come with a price -- no brand recognition, let alone prestige.

Princeton does not give out merit aid despite having a $37 billion endowment. Grinnell only has a $1.5 billion endowment and gives out merit aid because T10-level students woukd never show up otherwise.

Deflect if it makes you feel better.