Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son joined chess club without any difficulties. Maybe op’s kid is not very smart.

Don't think the chess club is where the "popular frat guys" are hanging out.....

I think a guy in the chess club would make a better partner than some hedge fund frat boy!

I concur!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pyramid narrows as you go to the top. There is room for only so many at each level. At any given level, you will find some are due to connections and others are due to their soft and hard skills. For those who rely solely on their skills, it gets harder but not impossible. Fortunately for them, there are application submissions through firm websites and Hireview screenings[b]. You get through them, you will be called for phone interviews. A little bit of luck along the way never hurts. But for luck to favor you, you will have to try first!

It is not impossible but extremely hard.  I've been working in the financial sector for five different employers and each year I've seen so many qualified students from Ivies and Northwestern get passed over for other students from lesser known universities because those students have connections with my employer.  For example, I recently interviewed two students, one from Brown and another one from Cornell, for an internship position, only to be told that the position will go to someone who is less qualified (yes, I interviewed that person as well) from VATech because it comes from the top.  The candidate who got hired, his best friend is the son of the company CFO. In other words, I was told to interview those two candidates from Brown and Cornell for "show only", to make the hiring process look "legit".  This is one of many examples that I've seen throughout my working career that the closer to decision makers, the more likelihood that you're going to be successful.  Going to Northwestern is not going to help you if you don't have the skill to take advantage of that opportunity.  Unfortunately, most people do not.

A family member is an MD at a large, well-known investment bank. They have a high school junior, and asked a contact in HR if there was a list of target schools from which said bank recruits (so they could firm up the kid's college list.) HR basically laughed in their face and said don't worry about it -- your kid will have a spot in the summer internship program no matter where they go.

So that's what the non-connected students are up against.

That's the case for most jobs. Parents will use their connections for their kids---that will never change. Majority of us would do that if we could. And if you say you wouldn't, you just don't have those connections yet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am grateful to this thread for revealing to me that there are exclusive college-kid finance clubs and thereby confirming that I made the right choices in my life.

I think that we all agree & understand that there are many different paths in life. Do you have the same feelings about a chemistry ot biology club or a writers' group ?

Universities are typically composed of multiple "schools" or "colleges" including non-pre-professional ones such as a College of Liberal Arts. Attending U Penn, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, or any large university whether public or private does not limit one to pre-professional study. OP started this thread out of concern for his/her student who has an interest in finance.

He will need to find another way than the way of the connected schmoozers. And if the schmoozers can't perform at the end of the day, they will not be of value

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pyramid narrows as you go to the top. There is room for only so many at each level. At any given level, you will find some are due to connections and others are due to their soft and hard skills. For those who rely solely on their skills, it gets harder but not impossible. Fortunately for them, there are application submissions through firm websites and Hireview screenings[b]. You get through them, you will be called for phone interviews. A little bit of luck along the way never hurts. But for luck to favor you, you will have to try first!

It is not impossible but extremely hard.  I've been working in the financial sector for five different employers and each year I've seen so many qualified students from Ivies and Northwestern get passed over for other students from lesser known universities because those students have connections with my employer.  For example, I recently interviewed two students, one from Brown and another one from Cornell, for an internship position, only to be told that the position will go to someone who is less qualified (yes, I interviewed that person as well) from VATech because it comes from the top.  The candidate who got hired, his best friend is the son of the company CFO. In other words, I was told to interview those two candidates from Brown and Cornell for "show only", to make the hiring process look "legit".  This is one of many examples that I've seen throughout my working career that the closer to decision makers, the more likelihood that you're going to be successful.  Going to Northwestern is not going to help you if you don't have the skill to take advantage of that opportunity.  Unfortunately, most people do not.

A family member is an MD at a large, well-known investment bank. They have a high school junior, and asked a contact in HR if there was a list of target schools from which said bank recruits (so they could firm up the kid's college list.) HR basically laughed in their face and said don't worry about it -- your kid will have a spot in the summer internship program no matter where they go.

So that's what the non-connected students are up against.

That's the case for most jobs. Parents will use their connections for their kids---that will never change. Majority of us would do that if we could. And if you say you wouldn't, you just don't have those connections yet

Oh, I absolutely would -- but unfortunately, my connections don't align with my kid's career interests. Oh, well.

[Anonymous]

What is it they say? The prize for the pie-eating contest is...MORE PIE!

[Anonymous]

Look for a discipline that weeds out the schmoozies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look for a discipline that weeds out the schmoozies.

Can you think of any? Some jobs may start as all hard skill, but I can't think of any field where advancement doesn't become more about soft skills the higher up you go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look for a discipline that weeds out the schmoozies.

Can you think of any? Some jobs may start as all hard skill, but I can't think of any field where advancement doesn't become more about soft skills the higher up you go.

No one is schmoozing their way their organic chemistry or the LSAT. Try something that requires some serious credentials if you are capable and motivated to get them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look for a discipline that weeds out the schmoozies.

Can you think of any? Some jobs may start as all hard skill, but I can't think of any field where advancement doesn't become more about soft skills the higher up you go.

No one is schmoozing their way their organic chemistry or the LSAT. Try something that requires some serious credentials if you are capable and motivated to get them

ok, once they graduate making it in law is all about schmoozing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look for a discipline that weeds out the schmoozies.

Can you think of any? Some jobs may start as all hard skill, but I can't think of any field where advancement doesn't become more about soft skills the higher up you go.

No one is schmoozing their way their organic chemistry or the LSAT. Try something that requires some serious credentials if you are capable and motivated to get them

ok, once they graduate making it in law is all about schmoozing.

I don't think the finance clubbers are necessarily making it through the bar so at least you can clear some hurdles without the finance clubbers around. And they don't seem to be advancing through the sciences either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look for a discipline that weeds out the schmoozies.

Can you think of any? Some jobs may start as all hard skill, but I can't think of any field where advancement doesn't become more about soft skills the higher up you go.

No one is schmoozing their way their organic chemistry or the LSAT. Try something that requires some serious credentials if you are capable and motivated to get them

ok, once they graduate making it in law is all about schmoozing.

I don't think the finance clubbers are necessarily making it through the bar so at least you can clear some hurdles without the finance clubbers around. And they don't seem to be advancing through the sciences either.

Dude. I was totally a clubber and kicked ass on the bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look for a discipline that weeds out the schmoozies.

Can you think of any? Some jobs may start as all hard skill, but I can't think of any field where advancement doesn't become more about soft skills the higher up you go.

No one is schmoozing their way their organic chemistry or the LSAT. Try something that requires some serious credentials if you are capable and motivated to get them

Yeah, referencing the LSAT doesn't really hold water...it's like saying try schmoozing the SATs. The LSAT is a test.

Law is really no different from banking. If the CEO of a large client of Big Law has their kid going to a #50 law school, guarantee that kid still finds his/her way into their summer associate program.

Also, the lawyers making the big bucks are the relationship lawyers that can actually land clients. You need to know how to work your connections and network (oh and have large cohorts of both to get to that level). Lawyers to do the work are a dime-a-dozen.

[Anonymous]

Ok. Medicine.

[Anonymous]

No patients gives a rats ass if you can schmooze. Do you know your shi*, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No patients gives a rats ass if you can schmooze. Do you know your shi*, period.

Ugh, it is as though a number of DCUM folks either don't understand or want to believe how the world works.

You don't think there is any schmoozing involved to work your way into lucrative sports medicine, plastic surgery, cardiology, etc. practices? You don't think the nephew of wealthy cardiologist A who attends the University of South Carolina Medical School (#93) doesn't have a leg up on random Harvard medical school student? The saving grace of medicine is that everyone has to pass the boards, and honestly, I don't really care if my doctor went to Harvard or went to the University of South Carolina medical school.

How many patients even know what question to ask their doctor, or really understand their response? How would you know if they know their S**T?