Where are the top unhooked kids at your Big3 going this year (not legacy, URM or sports recruit).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are the URMs going?

Right where they belong.

Last year: their choice between Harvard and Princeton

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an HYPS alum who does a lot of interviewing. What the OP seems to have missed is that it is incumbent upon applicants to convince these universities that they have the passion, leadership potential, and abilities to change the world in some way. That is what they are solving for. The admissions process is not a quantitive ranking based on test scores and gpa. Harvard could fill its class several times over with students who scored 1500+ on the SATs but they choose to take other factors into consideration because they have a long and successful track record of identifying who is going to be a change maker in the world and that is what they solve for.

That said, your child seems to have the ability to attend a great university, receive top grades, and continue on to the grad school or industry of their choice. Things seem pretty good.

they want LEADERS. say and do whatever to show that.

But who will follow all of those leaders leading themselves around once they all get there!!😂😂 I picture them each leading and imaginary group following behind them hanging on each and every word each of these “leaders” speak. farce in the making!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was admitted to HYPS on so-called "academic merit" and you know what? Many of the recruited athletes in my classes were getting just as good if not better grades than me. They have elite work ethic and time management skills so don't sound surprised that it often spills over to studying too. Stop it with the stereotypes.

Thank You !

Employers also like former college athletes. The skill set speaks to determination, goal oriented, competitive, team player skills and good physical well being

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes from these schools really don't have much of a "hook" getting into the "top" schools. Going through the process now with my kid. Highy desired by coaches almost universally, but can't get past the pre-reads because they're around the 25th percentile for the very academic schools. Middle of the pack "big 3" student and athletics not the hook everyone thinks it is.

Yeah, I don't think people understand that for the schools everyone on this Board worries about, you still need really strong academics to get into the top D3 schools, and to get into an Ivy, you need both the academics and to be a good enough athlete to compete at the D1 level. Everyone acts like that's nothing. I don't get it. When DC graduated a Big3 several years ago two classmates were recruited to play a sport at top Ivies. They were really strong athletes, who had worked really hard at their sports, but also had always taken the hardest classes and had high GPAs. It was not as if they just wandered in and said "here I am."

I don’t think you understand the amount of parental time and resources a kid needs to have access to in order to be recruitable for most d1, d2 (often forgotten!), and d3 sports. Additionally, a lot of the sports that you can get recruited for garner no fanfare whatsoever.

D2 is never mentioned here because they are crappy Colleges that anyone smart enough to go to private school in DMV is unlikely to want or need a hook to get in. The term hook specifically means help getting into a school that is hard to get into normally (on just grades and test scores).

Also, it IS harder for an athlete to get a high caliber D3 offer - like from a NESCAC, W&L, Swarthmore and the like as those schools will not bend the admissions standards - than an Ivy or other academic D1 offer. Ivies have standards for athletes but there is more wiggle room academically for the athletes they want than there is at a top academic D3.

Is this true?

Yes. Top D3 - coaches have minimal pull. You have to get in on your academics/they can tip you in if borderline. You need to be a stronger athlete to go Ivy but coaches have more pull on the academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes from these schools really don't have much of a "hook" getting into the "top" schools. Going through the process now with my kid. Highy desired by coaches almost universally, but can't get past the pre-reads because they're around the 25th percentile for the very academic schools. Middle of the pack "big 3" student and athletics not the hook everyone thinks it is.

4 or more of the so called " athlete hooks " at STA last year were also cum laude society ( top 15% of their class ) so its really a trope that an athletic hook can't get in academically

And the other 4 or so athletes that got into Ivies were not cum laude, while a bunch of the unhooked cum laude kids (apart from the top 3 or 4) did not get into Ivies. The hook makes a big difference, but yes the athletes do have to clear a certain bar. A middle-to-bottom of the class recruitable athlete is not getting offers from Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes from these schools really don't have much of a "hook" getting into the "top" schools. Going through the process now with my kid. Highy desired by coaches almost universally, but can't get past the pre-reads because they're around the 25th percentile for the very academic schools. Middle of the pack "big 3" student and athletics not the hook everyone thinks it is.

Yeah, I don't think people understand that for the schools everyone on this Board worries about, you still need really strong academics to get into the top D3 schools, and to get into an Ivy, you need both the academics and to be a good enough athlete to compete at the D1 level. Everyone acts like that's nothing. I don't get it. When DC graduated a Big3 several years ago two classmates were recruited to play a sport at top Ivies. They were really strong athletes, who had worked really hard at their sports, but also had always taken the hardest classes and had high GPAs. It was not as if they just wandered in and said "here I am."

I don’t think you understand the amount of parental time and resources a kid needs to have access to in order to be recruitable for most d1, d2 (often forgotten!), and d3 sports. Additionally, a lot of the sports that you can get recruited for garner no fanfare whatsoever.

D2 is never mentioned here because they are crappy Colleges that anyone smart enough to go to private school in DMV is unlikely to want or need a hook to get in. The term hook specifically means help getting into a school that is hard to get into normally (on just grades and test scores).

Also, it IS harder for an athlete to get a high caliber D3 offer - like from a NESCAC, W&L, Swarthmore and the like as those schools will not bend the admissions standards - than an Ivy or other academic D1 offer. Ivies have standards for athletes but there is more wiggle room academically for the athletes they want than there is at a top academic D3.

Is this true?

Yes. Top D3 - coaches have minimal pull. You have to get in on your academics/they can tip you in if borderline. You need to be a stronger athlete to go Ivy but coaches have more pull on the academics.

You can't even get in the running for athletic admittance unless you can afford to train in those sports, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes from these schools really don't have much of a "hook" getting into the "top" schools. Going through the process now with my kid. Highy desired by coaches almost universally, but can't get past the pre-reads because they're around the 25th percentile for the very academic schools. Middle of the pack "big 3" student and athletics not the hook everyone thinks it is.

Yeah, I don't think people understand that for the schools everyone on this Board worries about, you still need really strong academics to get into the top D3 schools, and to get into an Ivy, you need both the academics and to be a good enough athlete to compete at the D1 level. Everyone acts like that's nothing. I don't get it. When DC graduated a Big3 several years ago two classmates were recruited to play a sport at top Ivies. They were really strong athletes, who had worked really hard at their sports, but also had always taken the hardest classes and had high GPAs. It was not as if they just wandered in and said "here I am."

I don’t think you understand the amount of parental time and resources a kid needs to have access to in order to be recruitable for most d1, d2 (often forgotten!), and d3 sports. Additionally, a lot of the sports that you can get recruited for garner no fanfare whatsoever.

D2 is never mentioned here because they are crappy Colleges that anyone smart enough to go to private school in DMV is unlikely to want or need a hook to get in. The term hook specifically means help getting into a school that is hard to get into normally (on just grades and test scores).

Also, it IS harder for an athlete to get a high caliber D3 offer - like from a NESCAC, W&L, Swarthmore and the like as those schools will not bend the admissions standards - than an Ivy or other academic D1 offer. Ivies have standards for athletes but there is more wiggle room academically for the athletes they want than there is at a top academic D3.

Is this true?

Yes. Top D3 - coaches have minimal pull. You have to get in on your academics/they can tip you in if borderline. You need to be a stronger athlete to go Ivy but coaches have more pull on the academics.

You can't even get in the running for athletic admittance unless you can afford to train in those sports, though.

Not true...I have seen many people use this excuse as "only rich people can afford to train in sports". Ivies recruit for all types of sports that any kid in a public or private h.s. can play such as football, basketball, soccer, volleyball, etc. If you want to do something, you can find a way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes from these schools really don't have much of a "hook" getting into the "top" schools. Going through the process now with my kid. Highy desired by coaches almost universally, but can't get past the pre-reads because they're around the 25th percentile for the very academic schools. Middle of the pack "big 3" student and athletics not the hook everyone thinks it is.

Yeah, I don't think people understand that for the schools everyone on this Board worries about, you still need really strong academics to get into the top D3 schools, and to get into an Ivy, you need both the academics and to be a good enough athlete to compete at the D1 level. Everyone acts like that's nothing. I don't get it. When DC graduated a Big3 several years ago two classmates were recruited to play a sport at top Ivies. They were really strong athletes, who had worked really hard at their sports, but also had always taken the hardest classes and had high GPAs. It was not as if they just wandered in and said "here I am."

I don’t think you understand the amount of parental time and resources a kid needs to have access to in order to be recruitable for most d1, d2 (often forgotten!), and d3 sports. Additionally, a lot of the sports that you can get recruited for garner no fanfare whatsoever.

D2 is never mentioned here because they are crappy Colleges that anyone smart enough to go to private school in DMV is unlikely to want or need a hook to get in. The term hook specifically means help getting into a school that is hard to get into normally (on just grades and test scores).

Also, it IS harder for an athlete to get a high caliber D3 offer - like from a NESCAC, W&L, Swarthmore and the like as those schools will not bend the admissions standards - than an Ivy or other academic D1 offer. Ivies have standards for athletes but there is more wiggle room academically for the athletes they want than there is at a top academic D3.

Is this true?

Yes. Top D3 - coaches have minimal pull. You have to get in on your academics/they can tip you in if borderline. You need to be a stronger athlete to go Ivy but coaches have more pull on the academics.

You can't even get in the running for athletic admittance unless you can afford to train in those sports, though.

Not true...I have seen many people use this excuse as "only rich people can afford to train in sports". Ivies recruit for all types of sports that any kid in a public or private h.s. can play such as football, basketball, soccer, volleyball, etc. If you want to do something, you can find a way.

+1 half the kids on my athlete’s elite travel team travel and play on scholarship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have kids at NCS.
It looks like there is one Ivy admit at NCS this year outside of the 3 hook categories (legacy/athlete/URM).
Is it the same at the other "Big3"?
Where are the top academic kids that are unhooked going?

Wow, what a horrible thing to ask or assume. There are athletes, legacies, and URMs who are hard working and intelligent and deserve to be there. How are these things a “hook”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was admitted to HYPS on so-called "academic merit" and you know what? Many of the recruited athletes in my classes were getting just as good if not better grades than me. They have elite work ethic and time management skills so don't sound surprised that it often spills over to studying too. Stop it with the stereotypes.

Thank You !

Employers also like former college athletes. The skill set speaks to determination, goal oriented, competitive, team player skills and good physical well being

+1000. My husband had average SAT scores and went to an Ivy League school on a sports scholarship, excelled, went to a top 10 law school, and was hired at a top firm right out of school. Sports bring out leadership qualities and good/hardworking work ethic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was admitted to HYPS on so-called "academic merit" and you know what? Many of the recruited athletes in my classes were getting just as good if not better grades than me. They have elite work ethic and time management skills so don't sound surprised that it often spills over to studying too. Stop it with the stereotypes.

Thank You !

Employers also like former college athletes. The skill set speaks to determination, goal oriented, competitive, team player skills and good physical well being

+1000. My husband had average SAT scores and went to an Ivy League school on a sports scholarship, excelled, went to a top 10 law school, and was hired at a top firm right out of school. Sports bring out leadership qualities and good/hardworking work ethic.

Sometimes. Sometimes they’re just big assholes on the field and they continue to be big assholes throughout the rest of their lives. Lots of really smart kids who are better members of their community are getting shut out because some kid can spend their entire high school experience playing one sport amd doing nothing else. Doesn’t sound reasonable to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes from these schools really don't have much of a "hook" getting into the "top" schools. Going through the process now with my kid. Highy desired by coaches almost universally, but can't get past the pre-reads because they're around the 25th percentile for the very academic schools. Middle of the pack "big 3" student and athletics not the hook everyone thinks it is.

Yeah, I don't think people understand that for the schools everyone on this Board worries about, you still need really strong academics to get into the top D3 schools, and to get into an Ivy, you need both the academics and to be a good enough athlete to compete at the D1 level. Everyone acts like that's nothing. I don't get it. When DC graduated a Big3 several years ago two classmates were recruited to play a sport at top Ivies. They were really strong athletes, who had worked really hard at their sports, but also had always taken the hardest classes and had high GPAs. It was not as if they just wandered in and said "here I am."

I don’t think you understand the amount of parental time and resources a kid needs to have access to in order to be recruitable for most d1, d2 (often forgotten!), and d3 sports. Additionally, a lot of the sports that you can get recruited for garner no fanfare whatsoever.

Okay cool. What does that have to do with the misperception that athletes going to high academic schools have a "hook" and are less qualified academically? I'll answer that: nothing.

I’d like to abolish athletic preference in admissions, especially for sports that don’t generate revenue.

Of course you would! You would like for elite colleges to focus exclusively on children just like your own, just like every other parent who thinks it is unfair that kids they deem inferior were accepted to schools that rejected those parents’ children.

Not at all. I would like admissions to also focus on children that couldn’t access club swimming or travel soccer.

Or sailing, fencing, golf, squash, water polo, riding, etc. The athletic preference is biased toward helping more affluent kids gain admission.

+1

In terms of sheer numbers, the recruits associated with these teams are tiny. Sailing and riding are not varsity sports and thus can’t pull kids in. Fencing and golf maybe recruit like two kids per year. The rowers I know from these schools tend to be affluent, but also tend to be among the most driven and academically successful students. Hockey, football, bball pull in a lot of kids and tend to be less affluent. Lax is probably the best example of giving a leg up to affluent kids. They all go on to be investment bankers and probably donate a lot/ come to all the reunions so I guess the schools like that.

Cross-country, soccer, swimming, lacrosse, field hockey and hockey rosters are filled with kids from affluent towns and schools.

Many of our hardest working, intelligent, coachable + mentor, better communication hires we make have been academic athletes.
But for us also depends on major, stem or econ or business grads or were picking up things faster than poly science majors. Culling process still exists for those that didn’t “get it” after 1,2,3 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes from these schools really don't have much of a "hook" getting into the "top" schools. Going through the process now with my kid. Highy desired by coaches almost universally, but can't get past the pre-reads because they're around the 25th percentile for the very academic schools. Middle of the pack "big 3" student and athletics not the hook everyone thinks it is.

Yeah, I don't think people understand that for the schools everyone on this Board worries about, you still need really strong academics to get into the top D3 schools, and to get into an Ivy, you need both the academics and to be a good enough athlete to compete at the D1 level. Everyone acts like that's nothing. I don't get it. When DC graduated a Big3 several years ago two classmates were recruited to play a sport at top Ivies. They were really strong athletes, who had worked really hard at their sports, but also had always taken the hardest classes and had high GPAs. It was not as if they just wandered in and said "here I am."

I don’t think you understand the amount of parental time and resources a kid needs to have access to in order to be recruitable for most d1, d2 (often forgotten!), and d3 sports. Additionally, a lot of the sports that you can get recruited for garner no fanfare whatsoever.

D2 is never mentioned here because they are crappy Colleges that anyone smart enough to go to private school in DMV is unlikely to want or need a hook to get in. The term hook specifically means help getting into a school that is hard to get into normally (on just grades and test scores).

Also, it IS harder for an athlete to get a high caliber D3 offer - like from a NESCAC, W&L, Swarthmore and the like as those schools will not bend the admissions standards - than an Ivy or other academic D1 offer. Ivies have standards for athletes but there is more wiggle room academically for the athletes they want than there is at a top academic D3.

Is this true?

Yes. Top D3 - coaches have minimal pull. You have to get in on your academics/they can tip you in if borderline. You need to be a stronger athlete to go Ivy but coaches have more pull on the academics.

You can't even get in the running for athletic admittance unless you can afford to train in those sports, though.

Not true...I have seen many people use this excuse as "only rich people can afford to train in sports". Ivies recruit for all types of sports that any kid in a public or private h.s. can play such as football, basketball, soccer, volleyball, etc. If you want to do something, you can find a way.

+1 half the kids on my athlete’s elite travel team travel and play on scholarship.

Agree.

Go watch some games at SJC and see where a diverse set of athletes go afterward . More diverse than the Big 5 athlete set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was admitted to HYPS on so-called "academic merit" and you know what? Many of the recruited athletes in my classes were getting just as good if not better grades than me. They have elite work ethic and time management skills so don't sound surprised that it often spills over to studying too. Stop it with the stereotypes.

Thank You !

Employers also like former college athletes. The skill set speaks to determination, goal oriented, competitive, team player skills and good physical well being

+1000. My husband had average SAT scores and went to an Ivy League school on a sports scholarship, excelled, went to a top 10 law school, and was hired at a top firm right out of school. Sports bring out leadership qualities and good/hardworking work ethic.

As if no one who doesn't do sports has leadership qualities or learns how to work. so your underqualified husband benefited from the name recognition of an Ivy League school and succeeded. I'm sure no non-athletes at your husband's school excelled, went to a top 10 law school and was hired at a top firm right out of law school. Did he play sports in law school, too?

I certainly hope you are not one of those people who whines about lack of merit in admissions because your husband (and I assume you these days) certainly reaped the benefits from the school lowering its standards to accept him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was admitted to HYPS on so-called "academic merit" and you know what? Many of the recruited athletes in my classes were getting just as good if not better grades than me. They have elite work ethic and time management skills so don't sound surprised that it often spills over to studying too. Stop it with the stereotypes.

Thank You !

Employers also like former college athletes. The skill set speaks to determination, goal oriented, competitive, team player skills and good physical well being

employers like former college athletes because they tend to be white and wealthy like them and because former athletes hire other former athletes so they're not constantly the dumbest person in the room.