Anyone have success with a poorly graded embryo but euploid?

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to press the embryology lab for statistics, but in the meanwhile has anyone had success with a poor/fair embryo that was euploid? I'm thrilled to find out my embryos are euploid, but nervous because they're BC grade. DH and I are fairly young and healthy so we're surprised that the grades weren't a bit better.

[Anonymous]

My twins were graded 6AB (so fully hatched, which apparently is less likely to be successful due to damage during transfer) and 4AC. My best graded embryos didn’t result in live births, so I’m convinced that embryo grading doesn’t really matter too much. Good luck to you!

[Anonymous]

My untested embryo - now healthy 1 month old (and only embryo at 41) was a 4BB that was hatching by the time we did the transfer (they froze for 2 months while i had a polyp removed). She also was the last egg to fertilize per the lab out of 7. I think grading is bunk.

[Anonymous]

Thanks! It's so stressful. I thought I could celebrate after hearing they were euploid, but the embryology lab got back to me and said in their experience a 5BC embryo has a 25-35% chance of live birth. I want to be positive, but I'm a numbers person and this means I would need 8 euploid 5BC embryos to have a 100% chance of a live birth. I know nothing is guaranteed and someone has to win, why not me? I just wish I could boost this embryo quality.

[Anonymous]

My doc told me 50% with a pgt tested 3bb and 40% with 3bc. Still pretty good odds

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My doc told me 50% with a pgt tested 3bb and 40% with 3bc. Still pretty good odds

Yeah there's definitely discrepancy. My lab was specifying between pregnancy rate and live birth rate. Given that the live birth rate they gave me is so low, I'd rather transfer both embryos so there's a chance at one of them making it. I know this is negative thinking, but I'd rather have one miscarriage than two separate ones if both embryos are doomed. My clinic is giving me a hard time, but honestly I think this is the right thing for me to do.

[Anonymous]

Both our boys were lower-grade embies. And both were our second transfer after transferring a higher grade embie that didn't stick. YMMV of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks! It's so stressful. I thought I could celebrate after hearing they were euploid, but the embryology lab got back to me and said in their experience a 5BC embryo has a 25-35% chance of live birth. I want to be positive, but I'm a numbers person and this means I would need 8 euploid 5BC embryos to have a 100% chance of a live birth. I know nothing is guaranteed and someone has to win, why not me? I just wish I could boost this embryo quality.

That is not how statistics work. If you have two coins you don't have a 100% chance one comes up as heads.

If you want to use your own embryo, it sounds like this is the best one you've got. Hope it works out well for you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My doc told me 50% with a pgt tested 3bb and 40% with 3bc. Still pretty good odds

Yeah there's definitely discrepancy. My lab was specifying between pregnancy rate and live birth rate. Given that the live birth rate they gave me is so low, I'd rather transfer both embryos so there's a chance at one of them making it. I know this is negative thinking, but I'd rather have one miscarriage than two separate ones if both embryos are doomed. My clinic is giving me a hard time, but honestly I think this is the right thing for me to do.

Except what if doesn’t work because timing is off or it just wasn’t going to work that time and then all your eggs are in one basket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks! It's so stressful. I thought I could celebrate after hearing they were euploid, but the embryology lab got back to me and said in their experience a 5BC embryo has a 25-35% chance of live birth. I want to be positive, but I'm a numbers person and this means I would need 8 euploid 5BC embryos to have a 100% chance of a live birth. I know nothing is guaranteed and someone has to win, why not me? I just wish I could boost this embryo quality.

That is not how statistics work. If you have two coins you don't have a 100% chance one comes up as heads.

If you want to use your own embryo, it sounds like this is the best one you've got. Hope it works out well for you!

Exactly! We're saying the same thing. 100% is not 25x4. It's so confusing, but if each embryo has a 25% chance of working and the probability of one event occurring does not affect the probability of the next event occurring then the probility of getting pregnant after 8 embryos of 5BC grade is is 0.25^8. The probility of not getting pregnant after 8 tries is 1-.25^8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks! It's so stressful. I thought I could celebrate after hearing they were euploid, but the embryology lab got back to me and said in their experience a 5BC embryo has a 25-35% chance of live birth. I want to be positive, but I'm a numbers person and this means I would need 8 euploid 5BC embryos to have a 100% chance of a live birth. I know nothing is guaranteed and someone has to win, why not me? I just wish I could boost this embryo quality.

That is not how statistics work. If you have two coins you don't have a 100% chance one comes up as heads.

If you want to use your own embryo, it sounds like this is the best one you've got. Hope it works out well for you!

Exactly! We're saying the same thing. 100% is not 25x4. It's so confusing, but if each embryo has a 25% chance of working and the probability of one event occurring does not affect the probability of the next event occurring then the probility of getting pregnant after 8 embryos of 5BC grade is is 0.25^8. The probility of not getting pregnant after 8 tries is 1-.25^8.

Sorry! .75 where I put .25

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My doc told me 50% with a pgt tested 3bb and 40% with 3bc. Still pretty good odds

Yeah there's definitely discrepancy. My lab was specifying between pregnancy rate and live birth rate. Given that the live birth rate they gave me is so low, I'd rather transfer both embryos so there's a chance at one of them making it. I know this is negative thinking, but I'd rather have one miscarriage than two separate ones if both embryos are doomed. My clinic is giving me a hard time, but honestly I think this is the right thing for me to do.

Except what if doesn’t work because timing is off or it just wasn’t going to work that time and then all your eggs are in one basket.

Yes, maybe I'm overly confident in my uterus and lining. My mock embryo transfer went well thankfully.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I want to apologize for the confusing math. I am not a math whiz and had to ask for help on a math forum. I tried to write my posts while on the phone trying to get in with a new clinic. For anyone who is curious, I wanted to clarify below. When a clinic says that 3 euploid embryos of good grade have a 96% chance of a live birth this is the equation they use

1-(.35^3)= 0.957125

The .35 is 1-.65 where .65 is the chance that one good quality euploid embryo will result in a live birth

If I use the same equation using the stats my lab gave me (25-35% chance for each embryo) and I go in the middle selecting 30%

1-(.70^9)= 0.959646393

The .70 is 1-.30 where .30 is the chance that one poor quality euploid embryo will result in a live birth

As you can see it takes only 3 good euploids whereas it would take 9 poor euploids to have approximately the same chance of a live birth. I hope I didn't make any mistakes (again not a math whiz but this is how it was explained to me). I find this information helpful because it shows me that I have to focus on getting better quality embryos not necessarily a higher quantity of embryos. It also informs me that if I do another retrieval with the same results that I need to realize that I'm setting myself up for a lot of retrievals (4-5 in total) for the decent chance of a live birth. It also tells me at what point I might need to consider donor eggs. Again there's always luck and the grace of God (if you believe in that). Anything can happen, but I want to be realistic as this process is so difficult.

[Anonymous]

I got very few eggs, even fewer fertilized, even fewer made it to possible implant stage.

We put in the best two and froze the only two that remained - which had to go to day 7 to even make it to potential freezing levels. They were not well rated.

The fresh transfer failed. So we put in the poor quality, late blooming, last two we had.

They are healthy 10 year olds now.

The whole thing is a crazy mix of science and luck (and grit, and money, and endurance, and ...) Hang in there OP - I will keep my fingers crossed for you!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I got very few eggs, even fewer fertilized, even fewer made it to possible implant stage.

We put in the best two and froze the only two that remained - which had to go to day 7 to even make it to potential freezing levels. They were not well rated.

The fresh transfer failed. So we put in the poor quality, late blooming, last two we had.

They are healthy 10 year olds now.

The whole thing is a crazy mix of science and luck (and grit, and money, and endurance, and ...) Hang in there OP - I will keep my fingers crossed for you!!

I'm so happy for you!! That's truly amazing. Thank you for sharing.