Trump Campaign verbally and physically assaults Arlington Memorial staff, illegally uses site for campaigning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

Uh, the difference is that the BLM folks were victims here and not armed combatants in a military/war zone. While their deaths are tragedy, they aren't "more tragic" than the other other military personnel who have died in these wars...except that Trump is trying to score cheap political points with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

Uh, the difference is that the BLM folks were victims here and not armed combatants in a military/war zone. While their deaths are tragedy, they aren't "more tragic" than the other other military personnel who have died in these wars...except that Trump is trying to score cheap political points with them.

Oh wow, so you cannot see the argument that they were the victims of a poor chain of decision making? I am not asking you to agree, but to understand that perspective from their parents. Yes, people sign up to serve. But they also expect responsible leadership, especially the parents of these very young service members.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

Uh, the difference is that the BLM folks were victims here and not armed combatants in a military/war zone. While their deaths are tragedy, they aren't "more tragic" than the other other military personnel who have died in these wars...except that Trump is trying to score cheap political points with them.

Oh wow, so you cannot see the argument that they were the victims of a poor chain of decision making? I am not asking you to agree, but to understand that perspective from their parents. Yes, people sign up to serve. But they also expect responsible leadership, especially the parents of these very young service members.

Fine but show us this isn’t a partisan attack by equally calling out Trump for his failures and the deaths on his watch. Where have you expressed concern for William Ryan Owens and Trump's inability to deal with that family’s anger and grief?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

Uh, the difference is that the BLM folks were victims here and not armed combatants in a military/war zone. While their deaths are tragedy, they aren't "more tragic" than the other other military personnel who have died in these wars...except that Trump is trying to score cheap political points with them.

Oh wow, so you cannot see the argument that they were the victims of a poor chain of decision making? I am not asking you to agree, but to understand that perspective from their parents. Yes, people sign up to serve. But they also expect responsible leadership, especially the parents of these very young service members.

Fine but show us this isn’t a partisan attack by equally calling out Trump for his failures and the deaths on his watch. Where have you expressed concern for William Ryan Owens and Trump's inability to deal with that family’s anger and grief?

Fine, all politicians suck and do what's politically expedient for them. Happy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

Uh, the difference is that the BLM folks were victims here and not armed combatants in a military/war zone. While their deaths are tragedy, they aren't "more tragic" than the other other military personnel who have died in these wars...except that Trump is trying to score cheap political points with them.

Oh wow, so you cannot see the argument that they were the victims of a poor chain of decision making? I am not asking you to agree, but to understand that perspective from their parents. Yes, people sign up to serve. But they also expect responsible leadership, especially the parents of these very young service members.

Fine but show us this isn’t a partisan attack by equally calling out Trump for his failures and the deaths on his watch. Where have you expressed concern for William Ryan Owens and Trump's inability to deal with that family’s anger and grief?

Fine, all politicians suck and do what's politically expedient for them. Happy?

It took 70 pages to reach the true heart of this thread. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

Uh, the difference is that the BLM folks were victims here and not armed combatants in a military/war zone. While their deaths are tragedy, they aren't "more tragic" than the other other military personnel who have died in these wars...except that Trump is trying to score cheap political points with them.

Oh wow, so you cannot see the argument that they were the victims of a poor chain of decision making? I am not asking you to agree, but to understand that perspective from their parents. Yes, people sign up to serve. But they also expect responsible leadership, especially the parents of these very young service members.

Fine but show us this isn’t a partisan attack by equally calling out Trump for his failures and the deaths on his watch. Where have you expressed concern for William Ryan Owens and Trump's inability to deal with that family’s anger and grief?

Fine, all politicians suck and do what's politically expedient for them. Happy?

It took 70 pages to reach the true heart of this thread. Thank you.

If they all sucked equally, that would be one thing, but Trump blows everyone else out of the water when it comes to lying, corruption, breaking the law, disregard for social norms, and lack of basic human decency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

What’s so special about the third anniversary? What about the first? Or second? Or fourth? Or fifth?

Could it be that, wait for it, the third occurs during a presidential election year???

Exactly. And a lot more than 13 people have been KIA. These deaths have just been politicized. Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

Uh, the difference is that the BLM folks were victims here and not armed combatants in a military/war zone. While their deaths are tragedy, they aren't "more tragic" than the other other military personnel who have died in these wars...except that Trump is trying to score cheap political points with them.

Oh wow, so you cannot see the argument that they were the victims of a poor chain of decision making? I am not asking you to agree, but to understand that perspective from their parents. Yes, people sign up to serve. But they also expect responsible leadership, especially the parents of these very young service members.

Fine but show us this isn’t a partisan attack by equally calling out Trump for his failures and the deaths on his watch. Where have you expressed concern for William Ryan Owens and Trump's inability to deal with that family’s anger and grief?

Fine, all politicians suck and do what's politically expedient for them. Happy?

It took 70 pages to reach the true heart of this thread. Thank you.

If they all sucked equally, that would be one thing, but Trump blows everyone else out of the water when it comes to lying, corruption, breaking the law, disregard for social norms, and lack of basic human decency.

Exactly.

AND his own actions significantly contributed towards these deaths.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

One of the Gold Star moms was just on Fox and said that Harris and Biden were invited but they didn’t respond. DP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the Gold Star moms was just on Fox and said that Harris and Biden were invited but they didn’t respond. DP.

Both Biden and Harris have denied that they were invited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the Gold Star moms was just on Fox and said that Harris and Biden were invited but they didn’t respond. DP.

They knew that Trump would be there and probably didn't want to turn it into the circus Trump wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the Gold Star moms was just on Fox and said that Harris and Biden were invited but they didn’t respond. DP.

Incredibly unlikely. And to what end? They wanted to manufacture a dynamic where Trump, Biden, and Harris are all in the same space? So they can capture video of family members yelling at Biden/Harris? How does anybody find this credible in the slightest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead?

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families. If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration. Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened.

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary.

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events. Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.

But Biden does “say their names” and is very caring of our troops. This has been evident for decades.

This is not a “both sides” issue.

Trump, as usual, took our country to a new low by breaking decorum and politicizing ANC. He’s a psychopath and doesn’t care about anyone but himself.