Still Thinking About Thanksgiving Incidents

[Anonymous]

My SIL and her boyfriend have two dogs. One is 7 and the other is 4. They adopted both and have had each since they were puppies—each is a lab mix. We saw them over thanksgiving and I have been thinking about something ever since: they have shock collars on both dogs. The boyfriend also hit one of the dogs on the back when it growled at one of us and then once again when it showed its teeth. I don’t have dogs, but this all seemed really bad to me. Both dogs seem anxious and have unpredictable behavior, so I guess that’s why they make them wear those, but I read afterward that shock collars can make anxious dogs even more anxious and that they can breed distrust with their human. I mean—of course the dogs were hostile to us—how can you trust new humans when the human who takes care of you will shock and hit you? I am very surprised that SIL allows this. They have been dating a long time, but we see them very rarely, and we’d never met the dogs before Thanksgiving. I’m not sure what my question is here, I guess I just want confirmation that it makes sense that I’ll still bothered by this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My SIL and her boyfriend have two dogs. One is 7 and the other is 4. They adopted both and have had each since they were puppies—each is a lab mix. We saw them over thanksgiving and I have been thinking about something ever since: they have shock collars on both dogs. The boyfriend also hit one of the dogs on the back when it growled at one of us and then once again when it showed its teeth. I don’t have dogs, but this all seemed really bad to me. Both dogs seem anxious and have unpredictable behavior, so I guess that’s why they make them wear those, but I read afterward that shock collars can make anxious dogs even more anxious and that they can breed distrust with their human. I mean—of course the dogs were hostile to us—how can you trust new humans when the human who takes care of you will shock and hit you? I am very surprised that SIL allows this. They have been dating a long time, but we see them very rarely, and we’d never met the dogs before Thanksgiving. I’m not sure what my question is here, I guess I just want confirmation that it makes sense that I’ll still bothered by this.

Yes, it's not good. If the dogs aren't entirely reliable they should be boarded or crated in a quiet area away from noise and guests. We took our dog to a vet behavioral specialist-- her stance is that if a dog has anxiety, you treat it as anxiety (with understanding and management), not something that you can train or dominate or scare out of them.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, those dogs would not be welcome in my house. If you punish a dog for warning you they are threatened (growling, baring teeth) they will stop warning and just bite instead. It seems unlikely they they were unlucky twice with anxious and unpredictable personalities. More likely they made them this way.

[Anonymous]

It's not good, and I would never allow those dogs in my home and wouldn't go to any home where they'll be.

[Anonymous]

I’m not opposed to e collars and use them myself. But, the training needs to be done correctly or aggression/anxiety are common results.

The hitting and growling are very concerning. If you have kids, I would not allow them around those dogs. Do you know what the dogs were growling at specifically?

If I were you, I’d bring a pocketful of treats when I visited and dispense them to the dogs throughout the visit so they form a good association with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not opposed to e collars and use them myself. But, the training needs to be done correctly or aggression/anxiety are common results.

The hitting and growling are very concerning. If you have kids, I would not allow them around those dogs. Do you know what the dogs were growling at specifically?

If I were you, I’d bring a pocketful of treats when I visited and dispense them to the dogs throughout the visit so they form a good association with you.

Same. E-collars are a Godsend for certain dogs and in certain situations, but this seems like an abusive situation. I wouldn't go back there again, and I'd tell them why.

[Anonymous]

NP. Lab mix is often another name for pit mix. " Well bred" pits are hair trigger but not typically nervous or anxious. A pit mix could be anything, including nervous or anxious.

[Anonymous]

if they have the collars why didn't he use the control when the dogs misbehaved?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if they have the collars why didn't he use the control when the dogs misbehaved?

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I was nervous around the dogs most of the visit, and now I’m feeling like I wasn’t even as concerned as I should have been. I do have small children and the dogs did growl and show their teeth to the kids.

This is a good question, and I don’t know the answer. He did carry around on his belt something that looked like a walkie talkie, which I realized later was probably the controller for the collar(s), though maybe it wasn’t. It’s possible he did shock them—would I have known if he did? He reprimanded them a lot and as I said he hit one of them a couple of times, but I’m not sure if SIL or he used the collar during our visit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if they have the collars why didn't he use the control when the dogs misbehaved?

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I was nervous around the dogs most of the visit, and now I’m feeling like I wasn’t even as concerned as I should have been. I do have small children and the dogs did growl and show their teeth to the kids.

This is a good question, and I don’t know the answer. He did carry around on his belt something that looked like a walkie talkie, which I realized later was probably the controller for the collar(s), though maybe it wasn’t. It’s possible he did shock them—would I have known if he did? He reprimanded them a lot and as I said he hit one of them a couple of times, but I’m not sure if SIL or he used the collar during our visit.

A dog should NEVER, EVER be allowed to growl and bare teeth at a human, and certainly not a child. This is a disaster unfolding. You must convey your grave concerns to this couple, and say that you will not visit them while the dogs are there, and they cannot come visit you with the dogs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if they have the collars why didn't he use the control when the dogs misbehaved?

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I was nervous around the dogs most of the visit, and now I’m feeling like I wasn’t even as concerned as I should have been. I do have small children and the dogs did growl and show their teeth to the kids.

This is a good question, and I don’t know the answer. He did carry around on his belt something that looked like a walkie talkie, which I realized later was probably the controller for the collar(s), though maybe it wasn’t. It’s possible he did shock them—would I have known if he did? He reprimanded them a lot and as I said he hit one of them a couple of times, but I’m not sure if SIL or he used the collar during our visit.

A dog should NEVER, EVER be allowed to growl and bare teeth at a human, and certainly not a child. This is a disaster unfolding. You must convey your grave concerns to this couple, and say that you will not visit them while the dogs are there, and they cannot come visit you with the dogs.

OP again. Thank you for this. I have been so bothered by the whole experience and wasn’t sure if I was overreacting—now I definitely feel like I wasn’t. When we first got there and didn’t yet know the extent of this SIL and her boyfriend encouraged my son to give the dog treats and to throw the treat rather than hand feed. DS wasn’t quick enough and the more aggressive of the two dogs grabbed the treat from his hand and DS told me later that he felt the dogs teeth on his fingers and it hurt. I checked and it didn’t break the skin, but it put me on edge immediately. DS likes dogs very much and didn’t want to keep his distance the way we asked him to—DH and I watched very closely from there on out. The more I think of this the sadder I get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if they have the collars why didn't he use the control when the dogs misbehaved?

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I was nervous around the dogs most of the visit, and now I’m feeling like I wasn’t even as concerned as I should have been. I do have small children and the dogs did growl and show their teeth to the kids.

This is a good question, and I don’t know the answer. He did carry around on his belt something that looked like a walkie talkie, which I realized later was probably the controller for the collar(s), though maybe it wasn’t. It’s possible he did shock them—would I have known if he did? He reprimanded them a lot and as I said he hit one of them a couple of times, but I’m not sure if SIL or he used the collar during our visit.

A dog should NEVER, EVER be allowed to growl and bare teeth at a human, and certainly not a child. This is a disaster unfolding. You must convey your grave concerns to this couple, and say that you will not visit them while the dogs are there, and they cannot come visit you with the dogs.

OP again. Thank you for this. I have been so bothered by the whole experience and wasn’t sure if I was overreacting—now I definitely feel like I wasn’t. When we first got there and didn’t yet know the extent of this SIL and her boyfriend encouraged my son to give the dog treats and to throw the treat rather than hand feed. DS wasn’t quick enough and the more aggressive of the two dogs grabbed the treat from his hand and DS told me later that he felt the dogs teeth on his fingers and it hurt. I checked and it didn’t break the skin, but it put me on edge immediately. DS likes dogs very much and didn’t want to keep his distance the way we asked him to—DH and I watched very closely from there on out. The more I think of this the sadder I get.

Interesting. Believe me, if the dog had received no training at all, or had wanted to hurt your child, they could have bitten the fingers to the bone. So it appears that these dogs have some training, know not to bite the hand that feeds them, but then why do they growl and bare their teeth? Why the lack of control with the e-collars when that happens? The whole situation is not logical from a training point of view. I fear these people are ruining their dogs because they have misconstrued what training entails. Anyway the end result is the same - the dogs are dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Are they pit bulls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if they have the collars why didn't he use the control when the dogs misbehaved?

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I was nervous around the dogs most of the visit, and now I’m feeling like I wasn’t even as concerned as I should have been. I do have small children and the dogs did growl and show their teeth to the kids.

This is a good question, and I don’t know the answer. He did carry around on his belt something that looked like a walkie talkie, which I realized later was probably the controller for the collar(s), though maybe it wasn’t. It’s possible he did shock them—would I have known if he did? He reprimanded them a lot and as I said he hit one of them a couple of times, but I’m not sure if SIL or he used the collar during our visit.

A dog should NEVER, EVER be allowed to growl and bare teeth at a human, and certainly not a child. This is a disaster unfolding. You must convey your grave concerns to this couple, and say that you will not visit them while the dogs are there, and they cannot come visit you with the dogs.

OP again. Thank you for this. I have been so bothered by the whole experience and wasn’t sure if I was overreacting—now I definitely feel like I wasn’t. When we first got there and didn’t yet know the extent of this SIL and her boyfriend encouraged my son to give the dog treats and to throw the treat rather than hand feed. DS wasn’t quick enough and the more aggressive of the two dogs grabbed the treat from his hand and DS told me later that he felt the dogs teeth on his fingers and it hurt. I checked and it didn’t break the skin, but it put me on edge immediately. DS likes dogs very much and didn’t want to keep his distance the way we asked him to—DH and I watched very closely from there on out. The more I think of this the sadder I get.

Interesting. Believe me, if the dog had received no training at all, or had wanted to hurt your child, they could have bitten the fingers to the bone. So it appears that these dogs have some training, know not to bite the hand that feeds them, but then why do they growl and bare their teeth? Why the lack of control with the e-collars when that happens? The whole situation is not logical from a training point of view. I fear these people are ruining their dogs because they have misconstrued what training entails. Anyway the end result is the same - the dogs are dangerous.

I agree with this and I have big dogs and young kids. We haven't done e-collars, but I am not 100% against them either in the right, very limited circumstances and for dogs with certain issues. The thing is, they are very very easily abused and that can be worse, which seems to be the case here.

I'd keep my kids away from these dogs, but I also think these owners sound absolutely terrible and have probably caused these issues or contributed to them significantly. Since I do have dogs I would probably call this out with family, but like how no one wants parenting advice from the childless, I'd likely just avoid if I were you.

Sorry, it sucks and they suck.

[Anonymous]

Agree with other PPs, and this is not a way to train a dog; by terrorizing/bullying it.

But there is the worse issue looming...when they have kids, how mean of a dad is he going to be?