D.C. needs to get a lot more car friendly

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Given that a few thousand businesses have left downtown D.C. over the past two years, you would think that the city would be exploring ways to encourage more people to return and spend their money.

It may pain some District residents to hear this, but the city needs the suburbs. At this point, making the city less accessible by car will only hurt the District and strengthen the cycle of economic disinvestment and rising crime.

public transport must be improved, not private transport, which makes the city a terrible place. And as everybody knows: a lot of busniesses had to close in the last two years beacuse of the pandemic. Bikers and pedestrians are not the cause.

It’s fascinating that you believe the city is so enthralling that people in the suburbs will willingly and in large numbers take public transit into the city for recreation and entertainment purposes over other options, if only public transit was better? This is seriously deluded thinking that is contradicted by the fact that people in the suburbs refuse to take transit today to go to the city for work. But sure, on a Saturday they’ll hop on the metro for shopping or a performance at the Shakespeare Theatre when the same stores or high quality theatre experiences are available more conveniently and closer to home.

The reality is that another sectoral shift has occurred (starting back in 2015) away from cities and these policies just accelerate the inevitable.

it’s fascinating that you think the economic welfare of the city rests on people being able to drive into downtown and park for free in front of Macy’s to go shopping.

In your view, so you agree that it’s important for Macy’s to continue to have a store downtown? What would you think are the economic conditions that allow Macy’s presence in DC to continue to be viable?

It’s always been hard to go there and park. Metro Center is right there, but people are not taking the Metro either in large numbers. No one from the suburbs needs to go there anyways because they are going to have a Macy’s closure to home that’s more convenient. Commercial office space is at less than 40% capacity. Not a lot of people live nearby. What would happen to downtown DC if Macys closed?

So what’s your plan for Macy’s? How do they stay in business and thrive given these conditions? Does it matter to you to make it easier for a DC resident to shop there versus choosing instead to go to a Macys in the suburbs?

What I see from you is a lot short sighted and frankly selfish advocacy that doesn’t look at the big picture and impacts of highly ideological desires actually affect your community.

The worst part about it is that I’m sure that once the city is destroyed, you’ll be off somewhere else leaving the wreckage behind and blaming your decision in a vaguely racist way on crime and public safety.

Say perhaps a resident of Brightwood that has a choice between Wheaton and Downtown DC. Do they take 16th out of the city or into downtown?

Your answer is that they'll take a bus downtown rather than drive to Wheaton. Decades of history tell us the opposite.

How many people go to Macy’s in person in the first place? Most people order online.

13% of purchases are online
56% of people prefer shopping in store
55% shop in person once a week
18% shop online once a week

The point also wasn't Macy's specific. For someone that lives in the heart of 16th Street every single choice is between going into the city or out of the city. If they want to go to a movie do they go to Silver Spring or Union Station? A lot of things go into that calculation, but, the most important ones are time and hassle. Intentionally increasing congestion and eliminating parking in the city swings the equation to Silver Spring.

union station doesn’t have a theater anymore … someone on 16th st who wants to go to the movies will probably go to Atlantic Plumbing. Have you been to U St in the past 10 years?

You are absurdly delusional. No one living in 16th Street Heights is doing anything on 9th and U Street for any reason. That’s why they live in 16th Street Heights.

There is a greater chance those folks get in their car and drive down to Georgetown for the AMC 14 than take a couple buses to go to a theatre in Shaw.

I’m sorry but it’s just impossible to take you seriously anymore.

Everyone understands very well what’s been going on on 9th Street in Shaw the last couple years.

Also, here’s a tip so that you don’t continue to expose yourself as an interloper to the area, just because the street says “U” doesn’t mean it’s the “U Street Neighborhood”. Jesus.

If someone choses to drive to Georgetown from 16th St Heights to go to the movies, that’s on them. The desire to create less traffic for that trip does not outweigh the far, far greater net benefit of 16th st bus lanes.

You’re completely impervious to any information that compromises they delicate pyramid of nonsense that you are balancing in your head.

Literally all you have been able to post is hypothetical scenarios about where someone wants to go to the movies. I’m begging you, make a coherent argument, with facts.

I am curious if you even bother to read the news? It’s super hilarious that you talk about facts but offer nothing yourself except opinions and ideology.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/05/24/dc-businesses-downtown-pandemic-suburbs/

does that article talk about bus lanes and Vision Zero causing economic harm?

I’m not sure how you are going to learn anything because you pointedly refuse to read any information that contradicts your world view. It’s like talking to a high school kid in Young Life about god. I get it, you’re on a messianic quest, so you’re just not going to assimilate anything that may cause you to confront your identity. The problem is just that the real world is completely at odds with you. Here’s another article I hope that you read and I hope you consider that no one is taking transit to the Mosiac District. You’re going to need to contend with that issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/comments/?storyUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Ftransportation%2F2022%2F05%2F24%2Fpandemic-suburbs-downtown-retail%2F

I’m

Nobody takes transit to the Mosaic District because it is in the suburbs, and there is no transit. And again, the question here is whether bus lanes etc are economically harming DC as you claim. Not whether DC’s economy is changing. Your belief is that for DC to survive it has to become more like the suburbs in traffic. I am saying that you have yet to present any actual evidence that becoming more car dependent is necessary for DC. As far as people who actually live in DC pre-pandemic, the statistics were a clear trend away from car trips. And as for safety, you have not made any actual argument at all why safety has to be sacrificed for DC’s economic viability.

You keep spouting the same bs every single time. Nobody had ever said anything about making DC car dependent or making DC traffic more suburban. Those are the strawmen you created for yourself. What people have said is that intentionally increasing congestion is a bad idea. That increasing congestion in-organically tilts the balance in a negative direction which harms the sustainability of our economic growth.

Here’s basic facts this person is immune to:
1. The median DC resident works in VA and shops and MD
2. A substantial part of the DC tax base - and even the economic health of many neighborhood retail businesses - is premised on people from the suburbs coming into the city to spend money
3. People in the suburbs are not coming in large numbers anymore, particularly on transit
4. Since COVID, thousands of retail businesses have closed in the city and opened in the suburbs
5. The city is currently putting in place actual physical obstacles that would make it less convenient for not just people in the suburbs, but even DC residents to shop in city.
6. Every dollar not spent in DC is a drag in the city’s finances
7. The DC CFO is sending alarm bells about the medium term budget projections.

However, despite all of this and based on nothing but belief, good vibes, and some random stuff they found on google, they are undeterred. And in a few years, this person and their buddies will all be gone and in their wake a massive mess for someone else to clean up.

Where are you getting these facts?

+1. I’m especially interested in #1. Who are these people? Who would live in DC but work in VA and shop in MD?

How is it possible to be so self-centered so as not to conceive that a whole world exists that does not revolve around you?

I think you need to deal with basic fact that you are not representative of the people that live in this city. DC residents work in less than a third of jobs located in the city. Driving is the most common way that DC residents get to work.

Get over yourself.

DP. I have posted actual research showing that car trips with DC declined substantially. I’ve begged you for actual evidence that transit and traffic calming are going to spell economic harm, and you have nothing except an imaginary DC resident who works in VA and shops in MD who would, in your view, go to Macys only if they could drive there at 40-50mph and park on the street in front of Macy’s.

Also in terms of being self centeted and since the 16th St bus lanes came up: did you know that at rush hour, 16th st buses move over 50% of people on 16th st, in only 3% of the vehicles? So yeah, grousing about the inconvenience to cars seems like ignorance of the actual facts about who uses 16th st and why bus improvement serves the greater good.

https://ddot-cp-16-st-nw-bus-dcgis.hub.arcgis.com/

Tell me. Who uses the 16th street buses?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Given that a few thousand businesses have left downtown D.C. over the past two years, you would think that the city would be exploring ways to encourage more people to return and spend their money.

It may pain some District residents to hear this, but the city needs the suburbs. At this point, making the city less accessible by car will only hurt the District and strengthen the cycle of economic disinvestment and rising crime.

public transport must be improved, not private transport, which makes the city a terrible place. And as everybody knows: a lot of busniesses had to close in the last two years beacuse of the pandemic. Bikers and pedestrians are not the cause.

It’s fascinating that you believe the city is so enthralling that people in the suburbs will willingly and in large numbers take public transit into the city for recreation and entertainment purposes over other options, if only public transit was better? This is seriously deluded thinking that is contradicted by the fact that people in the suburbs refuse to take transit today to go to the city for work. But sure, on a Saturday they’ll hop on the metro for shopping or a performance at the Shakespeare Theatre when the same stores or high quality theatre experiences are available more conveniently and closer to home.

The reality is that another sectoral shift has occurred (starting back in 2015) away from cities and these policies just accelerate the inevitable.

it’s fascinating that you think the economic welfare of the city rests on people being able to drive into downtown and park for free in front of Macy’s to go shopping.

In your view, so you agree that it’s important for Macy’s to continue to have a store downtown? What would you think are the economic conditions that allow Macy’s presence in DC to continue to be viable?

It’s always been hard to go there and park. Metro Center is right there, but people are not taking the Metro either in large numbers. No one from the suburbs needs to go there anyways because they are going to have a Macy’s closure to home that’s more convenient. Commercial office space is at less than 40% capacity. Not a lot of people live nearby. What would happen to downtown DC if Macys closed?

So what’s your plan for Macy’s? How do they stay in business and thrive given these conditions? Does it matter to you to make it easier for a DC resident to shop there versus choosing instead to go to a Macys in the suburbs?

What I see from you is a lot short sighted and frankly selfish advocacy that doesn’t look at the big picture and impacts of highly ideological desires actually affect your community.

The worst part about it is that I’m sure that once the city is destroyed, you’ll be off somewhere else leaving the wreckage behind and blaming your decision in a vaguely racist way on crime and public safety.

Say perhaps a resident of Brightwood that has a choice between Wheaton and Downtown DC. Do they take 16th out of the city or into downtown?

Your answer is that they'll take a bus downtown rather than drive to Wheaton. Decades of history tell us the opposite.

How many people go to Macy’s in person in the first place? Most people order online.

13% of purchases are online
56% of people prefer shopping in store
55% shop in person once a week
18% shop online once a week

The point also wasn't Macy's specific. For someone that lives in the heart of 16th Street every single choice is between going into the city or out of the city. If they want to go to a movie do they go to Silver Spring or Union Station? A lot of things go into that calculation, but, the most important ones are time and hassle. Intentionally increasing congestion and eliminating parking in the city swings the equation to Silver Spring.

union station doesn’t have a theater anymore … someone on 16th st who wants to go to the movies will probably go to Atlantic Plumbing. Have you been to U St in the past 10 years?

You are absurdly delusional. No one living in 16th Street Heights is doing anything on 9th and U Street for any reason. That’s why they live in 16th Street Heights.

There is a greater chance those folks get in their car and drive down to Georgetown for the AMC 14 than take a couple buses to go to a theatre in Shaw.

I’m sorry but it’s just impossible to take you seriously anymore.

Everyone understands very well what’s been going on on 9th Street in Shaw the last couple years.

Also, here’s a tip so that you don’t continue to expose yourself as an interloper to the area, just because the street says “U” doesn’t mean it’s the “U Street Neighborhood”. Jesus.

If someone choses to drive to Georgetown from 16th St Heights to go to the movies, that’s on them. The desire to create less traffic for that trip does not outweigh the far, far greater net benefit of 16th st bus lanes.

You’re completely impervious to any information that compromises they delicate pyramid of nonsense that you are balancing in your head.

Literally all you have been able to post is hypothetical scenarios about where someone wants to go to the movies. I’m begging you, make a coherent argument, with facts.

I am curious if you even bother to read the news? It’s super hilarious that you talk about facts but offer nothing yourself except opinions and ideology.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/05/24/dc-businesses-downtown-pandemic-suburbs/

does that article talk about bus lanes and Vision Zero causing economic harm?

I’m not sure how you are going to learn anything because you pointedly refuse to read any information that contradicts your world view. It’s like talking to a high school kid in Young Life about god. I get it, you’re on a messianic quest, so you’re just not going to assimilate anything that may cause you to confront your identity. The problem is just that the real world is completely at odds with you. Here’s another article I hope that you read and I hope you consider that no one is taking transit to the Mosiac District. You’re going to need to contend with that issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/comments/?storyUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Ftransportation%2F2022%2F05%2F24%2Fpandemic-suburbs-downtown-retail%2F

I’m

Nobody takes transit to the Mosaic District because it is in the suburbs, and there is no transit. And again, the question here is whether bus lanes etc are economically harming DC as you claim. Not whether DC’s economy is changing. Your belief is that for DC to survive it has to become more like the suburbs in traffic. I am saying that you have yet to present any actual evidence that becoming more car dependent is necessary for DC. As far as people who actually live in DC pre-pandemic, the statistics were a clear trend away from car trips. And as for safety, you have not made any actual argument at all why safety has to be sacrificed for DC’s economic viability.

You keep spouting the same bs every single time. Nobody had ever said anything about making DC car dependent or making DC traffic more suburban. Those are the strawmen you created for yourself. What people have said is that intentionally increasing congestion is a bad idea. That increasing congestion in-organically tilts the balance in a negative direction which harms the sustainability of our economic growth.

Here’s basic facts this person is immune to:
1. The median DC resident works in VA and shops and MD
2. A substantial part of the DC tax base - and even the economic health of many neighborhood retail businesses - is premised on people from the suburbs coming into the city to spend money
3. People in the suburbs are not coming in large numbers anymore, particularly on transit
4. Since COVID, thousands of retail businesses have closed in the city and opened in the suburbs
5. The city is currently putting in place actual physical obstacles that would make it less convenient for not just people in the suburbs, but even DC residents to shop in city.
6. Every dollar not spent in DC is a drag in the city’s finances
7. The DC CFO is sending alarm bells about the medium term budget projections.

However, despite all of this and based on nothing but belief, good vibes, and some random stuff they found on google, they are undeterred. And in a few years, this person and their buddies will all be gone and in their wake a massive mess for someone else to clean up.

Where are you getting these facts?

+1. I’m especially interested in #1. Who are these people? Who would live in DC but work in VA and shop in MD?

How is it possible to be so self-centered so as not to conceive that a whole world exists that does not revolve around you?

I think you need to deal with basic fact that you are not representative of the people that live in this city. DC residents work in less than a third of jobs located in the city. Driving is the most common way that DC residents get to work.

Get over yourself.

DP. I have posted actual research showing that car trips with DC declined substantially. I’ve begged you for actual evidence that transit and traffic calming are going to spell economic harm, and you have nothing except an imaginary DC resident who works in VA and shops in MD who would, in your view, go to Macys only if they could drive there at 40-50mph and park on the street in front of Macy’s.

Also in terms of being self centeted and since the 16th St bus lanes came up: did you know that at rush hour, 16th st buses move over 50% of people on 16th st, in only 3% of the vehicles? So yeah, grousing about the inconvenience to cars seems like ignorance of the actual facts about who uses 16th st and why bus improvement serves the greater good.

https://ddot-cp-16-st-nw-bus-dcgis.hub.arcgis.com/

Tell me. Who uses the 16th street buses?

50% of rush hour commuters. Do you mean where do they live? I assume all along the bus line until you get close enough to SS to metro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that a few thousand businesses have left downtown D.C. over the past two years, you would think that the city would be exploring ways to encourage more people to return and spend their money.

It may pain some District residents to hear this, but the city needs the suburbs. At this point, making the city less accessible by car will only hurt the District and strengthen the cycle of economic disinvestment and rising crime.

public transport must be improved, not private transport, which makes the city a terrible place. And as everybody knows: a lot of busniesses had to close in the last two years beacuse of the pandemic. Bikers and pedestrians are not the cause.

It’s fascinating that you believe the city is so enthralling that people in the suburbs will willingly and in large numbers take public transit into the city for recreation and entertainment purposes over other options, if only public transit was better? This is seriously deluded thinking that is contradicted by the fact that people in the suburbs refuse to take transit today to go to the city for work. But sure, on a Saturday they’ll hop on the metro for shopping or a performance at the Shakespeare Theatre when the same stores or high quality theatre experiences are available more conveniently and closer to home.

The reality is that another sectoral shift has occurred (starting back in 2015) away from cities and these policies just accelerate the inevitable.

it’s fascinating that you think the economic welfare of the city rests on people being able to drive into downtown and park for free in front of Macy’s to go shopping.

In your view, so you agree that it’s important for Macy’s to continue to have a store downtown? What would you think are the economic conditions that allow Macy’s presence in DC to continue to be viable?

It’s always been hard to go there and park. Metro Center is right there, but people are not taking the Metro either in large numbers. No one from the suburbs needs to go there anyways because they are going to have a Macy’s closure to home that’s more convenient. Commercial office space is at less than 40% capacity. Not a lot of people live nearby. What would happen to downtown DC if Macys closed?

So what’s your plan for Macy’s? How do they stay in business and thrive given these conditions? Does it matter to you to make it easier for a DC resident to shop there versus choosing instead to go to a Macys in the suburbs?

What I see from you is a lot short sighted and frankly selfish advocacy that doesn’t look at the big picture and impacts of highly ideological desires actually affect your community.

The worst part about it is that I’m sure that once the city is destroyed, you’ll be off somewhere else leaving the wreckage behind and blaming your decision in a vaguely racist way on crime and public safety.

Say perhaps a resident of Brightwood that has a choice between Wheaton and Downtown DC. Do they take 16th out of the city or into downtown?

Your answer is that they'll take a bus downtown rather than drive to Wheaton. Decades of history tell us the opposite.

How many people go to Macy’s in person in the first place? Most people order online.

13% of purchases are online
56% of people prefer shopping in store
55% shop in person once a week
18% shop online once a week

The point also wasn't Macy's specific. For someone that lives in the heart of 16th Street every single choice is between going into the city or out of the city. If they want to go to a movie do they go to Silver Spring or Union Station? A lot of things go into that calculation, but, the most important ones are time and hassle. Intentionally increasing congestion and eliminating parking in the city swings the equation to Silver Spring.

union station doesn’t have a theater anymore … someone on 16th st who wants to go to the movies will probably go to Atlantic Plumbing. Have you been to U St in the past 10 years?

You are absurdly delusional. No one living in 16th Street Heights is doing anything on 9th and U Street for any reason. That’s why they live in 16th Street Heights.

There is a greater chance those folks get in their car and drive down to Georgetown for the AMC 14 than take a couple buses to go to a theatre in Shaw.

I’m sorry but it’s just impossible to take you seriously anymore.

Everyone understands very well what’s been going on on 9th Street in Shaw the last couple years.

Also, here’s a tip so that you don’t continue to expose yourself as an interloper to the area, just because the street says “U” doesn’t mean it’s the “U Street Neighborhood”. Jesus.

If someone choses to drive to Georgetown from 16th St Heights to go to the movies, that’s on them. The desire to create less traffic for that trip does not outweigh the far, far greater net benefit of 16th st bus lanes.

You’re completely impervious to any information that compromises they delicate pyramid of nonsense that you are balancing in your head.

Literally all you have been able to post is hypothetical scenarios about where someone wants to go to the movies. I’m begging you, make a coherent argument, with facts.

I am curious if you even bother to read the news? It’s super hilarious that you talk about facts but offer nothing yourself except opinions and ideology.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/05/24/dc-businesses-downtown-pandemic-suburbs/

does that article talk about bus lanes and Vision Zero causing economic harm?

I’m not sure how you are going to learn anything because you pointedly refuse to read any information that contradicts your world view. It’s like talking to a high school kid in Young Life about god. I get it, you’re on a messianic quest, so you’re just not going to assimilate anything that may cause you to confront your identity. The problem is just that the real world is completely at odds with you. Here’s another article I hope that you read and I hope you consider that no one is taking transit to the Mosiac District. You’re going to need to contend with that issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/comments/?storyUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Ftransportation%2F2022%2F05%2F24%2Fpandemic-suburbs-downtown-retail%2F

I’m

Nobody takes transit to the Mosaic District because it is in the suburbs, and there is no transit. And again, the question here is whether bus lanes etc are economically harming DC as you claim. Not whether DC’s economy is changing. Your belief is that for DC to survive it has to become more like the suburbs in traffic. I am saying that you have yet to present any actual evidence that becoming more car dependent is necessary for DC. As far as people who actually live in DC pre-pandemic, the statistics were a clear trend away from car trips. And as for safety, you have not made any actual argument at all why safety has to be sacrificed for DC’s economic viability.

You keep spouting the same bs every single time. Nobody had ever said anything about making DC car dependent or making DC traffic more suburban. Those are the strawmen you created for yourself. What people have said is that intentionally increasing congestion is a bad idea. That increasing congestion in-organically tilts the balance in a negative direction which harms the sustainability of our economic growth.

Here’s basic facts this person is immune to:
1. The median DC resident works in VA and shops and MD
2. A substantial part of the DC tax base - and even the economic health of many neighborhood retail businesses - is premised on people from the suburbs coming into the city to spend money
3. People in the suburbs are not coming in large numbers anymore, particularly on transit
4. Since COVID, thousands of retail businesses have closed in the city and opened in the suburbs
5. The city is currently putting in place actual physical obstacles that would make it less convenient for not just people in the suburbs, but even DC residents to shop in city.
6. Every dollar not spent in DC is a drag in the city’s finances
7. The DC CFO is sending alarm bells about the medium term budget projections.

However, despite all of this and based on nothing but belief, good vibes, and some random stuff they found on google, they are undeterred. And in a few years, this person and their buddies will all be gone and in their wake a massive mess for someone else to clean up.

Where are you getting these facts?

+1. I’m especially interested in #1. Who are these people? Who would live in DC but work in VA and shop in MD?

How is it possible to be so self-centered so as not to conceive that a whole world exists that does not revolve around you?

I think you need to deal with basic fact that you are not representative of the people that live in this city. DC residents work in less than a third of jobs located in the city. Driving is the most common way that DC residents get to work.

Get over yourself.

DP. I have posted actual research showing that car trips with DC declined substantially. I’ve begged you for actual evidence that transit and traffic calming are going to spell economic harm, and you have nothing except an imaginary DC resident who works in VA and shops in MD who would, in your view, go to Macys only if they could drive there at 40-50mph and park on the street in front of Macy’s.

“Actual research”. You clearly don’t live in the real world, so here are some actual facts that should help you.

- There has been a real decline in the population of this city. The 2022 population has reverted to 2015 levels. The population is likely to decline in 2022 for a third consecutive year.

- Transit ridership is less than 40% pre-pandemic levels and the rosiest projection is that it will take at least 2 more years to recover. However, that will still be significantly below the peak which was all the way back in 2008. There is no goal or plan

- The number of vehicle trips in DC are 70% of pre-pandemic levels but congestion is over 100% of pre-pandemic levels. So mission accomplished.

It’s all good though because you’ve got “actual research”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that a few thousand businesses have left downtown D.C. over the past two years, you would think that the city would be exploring ways to encourage more people to return and spend their money.

It may pain some District residents to hear this, but the city needs the suburbs. At this point, making the city less accessible by car will only hurt the District and strengthen the cycle of economic disinvestment and rising crime.

public transport must be improved, not private transport, which makes the city a terrible place. And as everybody knows: a lot of busniesses had to close in the last two years beacuse of the pandemic. Bikers and pedestrians are not the cause.

It’s fascinating that you believe the city is so enthralling that people in the suburbs will willingly and in large numbers take public transit into the city for recreation and entertainment purposes over other options, if only public transit was better? This is seriously deluded thinking that is contradicted by the fact that people in the suburbs refuse to take transit today to go to the city for work. But sure, on a Saturday they’ll hop on the metro for shopping or a performance at the Shakespeare Theatre when the same stores or high quality theatre experiences are available more conveniently and closer to home.

The reality is that another sectoral shift has occurred (starting back in 2015) away from cities and these policies just accelerate the inevitable.

it’s fascinating that you think the economic welfare of the city rests on people being able to drive into downtown and park for free in front of Macy’s to go shopping.

In your view, so you agree that it’s important for Macy’s to continue to have a store downtown? What would you think are the economic conditions that allow Macy’s presence in DC to continue to be viable?

It’s always been hard to go there and park. Metro Center is right there, but people are not taking the Metro either in large numbers. No one from the suburbs needs to go there anyways because they are going to have a Macy’s closure to home that’s more convenient. Commercial office space is at less than 40% capacity. Not a lot of people live nearby. What would happen to downtown DC if Macys closed?

So what’s your plan for Macy’s? How do they stay in business and thrive given these conditions? Does it matter to you to make it easier for a DC resident to shop there versus choosing instead to go to a Macys in the suburbs?

What I see from you is a lot short sighted and frankly selfish advocacy that doesn’t look at the big picture and impacts of highly ideological desires actually affect your community.

The worst part about it is that I’m sure that once the city is destroyed, you’ll be off somewhere else leaving the wreckage behind and blaming your decision in a vaguely racist way on crime and public safety.

Say perhaps a resident of Brightwood that has a choice between Wheaton and Downtown DC. Do they take 16th out of the city or into downtown?

Your answer is that they'll take a bus downtown rather than drive to Wheaton. Decades of history tell us the opposite.

How many people go to Macy’s in person in the first place? Most people order online.

13% of purchases are online
56% of people prefer shopping in store
55% shop in person once a week
18% shop online once a week

The point also wasn't Macy's specific. For someone that lives in the heart of 16th Street every single choice is between going into the city or out of the city. If they want to go to a movie do they go to Silver Spring or Union Station? A lot of things go into that calculation, but, the most important ones are time and hassle. Intentionally increasing congestion and eliminating parking in the city swings the equation to Silver Spring.

union station doesn’t have a theater anymore … someone on 16th st who wants to go to the movies will probably go to Atlantic Plumbing. Have you been to U St in the past 10 years?

You are absurdly delusional. No one living in 16th Street Heights is doing anything on 9th and U Street for any reason. That’s why they live in 16th Street Heights.

There is a greater chance those folks get in their car and drive down to Georgetown for the AMC 14 than take a couple buses to go to a theatre in Shaw.

I’m sorry but it’s just impossible to take you seriously anymore.

Everyone understands very well what’s been going on on 9th Street in Shaw the last couple years.

Also, here’s a tip so that you don’t continue to expose yourself as an interloper to the area, just because the street says “U” doesn’t mean it’s the “U Street Neighborhood”. Jesus.

If someone choses to drive to Georgetown from 16th St Heights to go to the movies, that’s on them. The desire to create less traffic for that trip does not outweigh the far, far greater net benefit of 16th st bus lanes.

You’re completely impervious to any information that compromises they delicate pyramid of nonsense that you are balancing in your head.

Literally all you have been able to post is hypothetical scenarios about where someone wants to go to the movies. I’m begging you, make a coherent argument, with facts.

I am curious if you even bother to read the news? It’s super hilarious that you talk about facts but offer nothing yourself except opinions and ideology.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/05/24/dc-businesses-downtown-pandemic-suburbs/

does that article talk about bus lanes and Vision Zero causing economic harm?

I’m not sure how you are going to learn anything because you pointedly refuse to read any information that contradicts your world view. It’s like talking to a high school kid in Young Life about god. I get it, you’re on a messianic quest, so you’re just not going to assimilate anything that may cause you to confront your identity. The problem is just that the real world is completely at odds with you. Here’s another article I hope that you read and I hope you consider that no one is taking transit to the Mosiac District. You’re going to need to contend with that issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/comments/?storyUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Ftransportation%2F2022%2F05%2F24%2Fpandemic-suburbs-downtown-retail%2F

I’m

Nobody takes transit to the Mosaic District because it is in the suburbs, and there is no transit. And again, the question here is whether bus lanes etc are economically harming DC as you claim. Not whether DC’s economy is changing. Your belief is that for DC to survive it has to become more like the suburbs in traffic. I am saying that you have yet to present any actual evidence that becoming more car dependent is necessary for DC. As far as people who actually live in DC pre-pandemic, the statistics were a clear trend away from car trips. And as for safety, you have not made any actual argument at all why safety has to be sacrificed for DC’s economic viability.

You keep spouting the same bs every single time. Nobody had ever said anything about making DC car dependent or making DC traffic more suburban. Those are the strawmen you created for yourself. What people have said is that intentionally increasing congestion is a bad idea. That increasing congestion in-organically tilts the balance in a negative direction which harms the sustainability of our economic growth.

Here’s basic facts this person is immune to:
1. The median DC resident works in VA and shops and MD
2. A substantial part of the DC tax base - and even the economic health of many neighborhood retail businesses - is premised on people from the suburbs coming into the city to spend money
3. People in the suburbs are not coming in large numbers anymore, particularly on transit
4. Since COVID, thousands of retail businesses have closed in the city and opened in the suburbs
5. The city is currently putting in place actual physical obstacles that would make it less convenient for not just people in the suburbs, but even DC residents to shop in city.
6. Every dollar not spent in DC is a drag in the city’s finances
7. The DC CFO is sending alarm bells about the medium term budget projections.

However, despite all of this and based on nothing but belief, good vibes, and some random stuff they found on google, they are undeterred. And in a few years, this person and their buddies will all be gone and in their wake a massive mess for someone else to clean up.

Where are you getting these facts?

+1. I’m especially interested in #1. Who are these people? Who would live in DC but work in VA and shop in MD?

How is it possible to be so self-centered so as not to conceive that a whole world exists that does not revolve around you?

I think you need to deal with basic fact that you are not representative of the people that live in this city. DC residents work in less than a third of jobs located in the city. Driving is the most common way that DC residents get to work.

Get over yourself.

DP. I have posted actual research showing that car trips with DC declined substantially. I’ve begged you for actual evidence that transit and traffic calming are going to spell economic harm, and you have nothing except an imaginary DC resident who works in VA and shops in MD who would, in your view, go to Macys only if they could drive there at 40-50mph and park on the street in front of Macy’s.

“Actual research”. You clearly don’t live in the real world, so here are some actual facts that should help you.

- There has been a real decline in the population of this city. The 2022 population has reverted to 2015 levels. The population is likely to decline in 2022 for a third consecutive year.

- Transit ridership is less than 40% pre-pandemic levels and the rosiest projection is that it will take at least 2 more years to recover. However, that will still be significantly below the peak which was all the way back in 2008. There is no goal or plan

- The number of vehicle trips in DC are 70% of pre-pandemic levels but congestion is over 100% of pre-pandemic levels. So mission accomplished.

It’s all good though because you’ve got “actual research”.

You just keep on posting the same 3 priors (without any citations backing them up, by the way) as if they prove your conclusion: that we need to get rid of traffic calming and transit priorities in order to preserve the city's economy. Yes, well all know that covid impacted downtowns, that metro ridership is down, that people are changing their working patterns and may not be working downtown in the same numbers. NONE of that leads to your conclusion that we need to get more car friendly to save DC.

[Anonymous]

https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

From your citations: "While higher ADT per freeway lane appears to slow productivity growth, there is no evidence of congestion-induced travel delay impeding productivity growth. Results suggest that the strict policy focus on travel time savings may be misplaced and, instead, better outlooks for managing congestion’s economic drag lie in prioritising the economically most important trips (perhaps through road pricing) or in providing alternative travel capacity to enable access despite congestion."

This is an argument for increasing public transit, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

From your citations: "While higher ADT per freeway lane appears to slow productivity growth, there is no evidence of congestion-induced travel delay impeding productivity growth. Results suggest that the strict policy focus on travel time savings may be misplaced and, instead, better outlooks for managing congestion’s economic drag lie in prioritising the economically most important trips (perhaps through road pricing) or in providing alternative travel capacity to enable access despite congestion."

This is an argument for increasing public transit, PP.

And this is also an argument for making local retail MORE walkable: https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

In fact it dovetails very nicely with the NYC experiement where making shopping blocks more pedestrian friendly increased revenues. Earlier in this thread, someone was talking about how the Conn Ave traffic made it hard to get to Bread Furst - I think that also is a good example of why, if people prefer to shop very locally, improving pedestrian access makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

From your citations: "While higher ADT per freeway lane appears to slow productivity growth, there is no evidence of congestion-induced travel delay impeding productivity growth. Results suggest that the strict policy focus on travel time savings may be misplaced and, instead, better outlooks for managing congestion’s economic drag lie in prioritising the economically most important trips (perhaps through road pricing) or in providing alternative travel capacity to enable access despite congestion."

This is an argument for increasing public transit, PP.

And this is also an argument for making local retail MORE walkable: https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

In fact it dovetails very nicely with the NYC experiement where making shopping blocks more pedestrian friendly increased revenues. Earlier in this thread, someone was talking about how the Conn Ave traffic made it hard to get to Bread Furst - I think that also is a good example of why, if people prefer to shop very locally, improving pedestrian access makes sense.

Except Connecticut Ave is one of the major thoroughfares in and out of the city. People have to take it. It is what it is. There are not alternative routes unless you want non-hyperlocal traffic in the neighborhoods. Increasing congestion by 4 minutes causes economic harm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

From your citations: "While higher ADT per freeway lane appears to slow productivity growth, there is no evidence of congestion-induced travel delay impeding productivity growth. Results suggest that the strict policy focus on travel time savings may be misplaced and, instead, better outlooks for managing congestion’s economic drag lie in prioritising the economically most important trips (perhaps through road pricing) or in providing alternative travel capacity to enable access despite congestion."

This is an argument for increasing public transit, PP.

And this is also an argument for making local retail MORE walkable: https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

In fact it dovetails very nicely with the NYC experiement where making shopping blocks more pedestrian friendly increased revenues. Earlier in this thread, someone was talking about how the Conn Ave traffic made it hard to get to Bread Furst - I think that also is a good example of why, if people prefer to shop very locally, improving pedestrian access makes sense.

Except Connecticut Ave is one of the major thoroughfares in and out of the city. People have to take it. It is what it is. There are not alternative routes unless you want non-hyperlocal traffic in the neighborhoods. Increasing congestion by 4 minutes causes economic harm.

That is ... not actually what that research said. Anyway, is your position that traffic cannot bear ANY safety modifications, at all, and that any degree of economic harm outweighs the safety of people using the road? Like, pedestrian bump-outs, methods to force drives to turn more carefully, none of it is OK with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

From your citations: "While higher ADT per freeway lane appears to slow productivity growth, there is no evidence of congestion-induced travel delay impeding productivity growth. Results suggest that the strict policy focus on travel time savings may be misplaced and, instead, better outlooks for managing congestion’s economic drag lie in prioritising the economically most important trips (perhaps through road pricing) or in providing alternative travel capacity to enable access despite congestion."

This is an argument for increasing public transit, PP.

If you can stay within the twenty minute limit. Metro trains only run every twenty minutes. Metro is limited in its utility by its frequency of service. But yes, the subway as an asset should be prioritized. A lazer focus on centering development at metro stations is the key. But please remember that you are proposing to inorganically intentionally increase congestion away from subway stations in order to force people to give up cars. That is your stated goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

From your citations: "While higher ADT per freeway lane appears to slow productivity growth, there is no evidence of congestion-induced travel delay impeding productivity growth. Results suggest that the strict policy focus on travel time savings may be misplaced and, instead, better outlooks for managing congestion’s economic drag lie in prioritising the economically most important trips (perhaps through road pricing) or in providing alternative travel capacity to enable access despite congestion."

This is an argument for increasing public transit, PP.

And this is also an argument for making local retail MORE walkable: https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

In fact it dovetails very nicely with the NYC experiement where making shopping blocks more pedestrian friendly increased revenues. Earlier in this thread, someone was talking about how the Conn Ave traffic made it hard to get to Bread Furst - I think that also is a good example of why, if people prefer to shop very locally, improving pedestrian access makes sense.

Except Connecticut Ave is one of the major thoroughfares in and out of the city. People have to take it. It is what it is. There are not alternative routes unless you want non-hyperlocal traffic in the neighborhoods. Increasing congestion by 4 minutes causes economic harm.

That is ... not actually what that research said. Anyway, is your position that traffic cannot bear ANY safety modifications, at all, and that any degree of economic harm outweighs the safety of people using the road? Like, pedestrian bump-outs, methods to force drives to turn more carefully, none of it is OK with you?

Prioritizing the most economically important routes for lessening congestion. IE: 16th, Connecticut etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

From your citations: "While higher ADT per freeway lane appears to slow productivity growth, there is no evidence of congestion-induced travel delay impeding productivity growth. Results suggest that the strict policy focus on travel time savings may be misplaced and, instead, better outlooks for managing congestion’s economic drag lie in prioritising the economically most important trips (perhaps through road pricing) or in providing alternative travel capacity to enable access despite congestion."

This is an argument for increasing public transit, PP.

ADT is not the metric here. Congestion is. While those two different things are connected, higher ADT obviously increases congestion, you are proposing increasing congestion in an attempt to decrease ADT. Thereby decreasing volume and increasing time distance. That is a toxic combination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that a few thousand businesses have left downtown D.C. over the past two years, you would think that the city would be exploring ways to encourage more people to return and spend their money.

It may pain some District residents to hear this, but the city needs the suburbs. At this point, making the city less accessible by car will only hurt the District and strengthen the cycle of economic disinvestment and rising crime.

public transport must be improved, not private transport, which makes the city a terrible place. And as everybody knows: a lot of busniesses had to close in the last two years beacuse of the pandemic. Bikers and pedestrians are not the cause.

It’s fascinating that you believe the city is so enthralling that people in the suburbs will willingly and in large numbers take public transit into the city for recreation and entertainment purposes over other options, if only public transit was better? This is seriously deluded thinking that is contradicted by the fact that people in the suburbs refuse to take transit today to go to the city for work. But sure, on a Saturday they’ll hop on the metro for shopping or a performance at the Shakespeare Theatre when the same stores or high quality theatre experiences are available more conveniently and closer to home.

The reality is that another sectoral shift has occurred (starting back in 2015) away from cities and these policies just accelerate the inevitable.

it’s fascinating that you think the economic welfare of the city rests on people being able to drive into downtown and park for free in front of Macy’s to go shopping.

In your view, so you agree that it’s important for Macy’s to continue to have a store downtown? What would you think are the economic conditions that allow Macy’s presence in DC to continue to be viable?

It’s always been hard to go there and park. Metro Center is right there, but people are not taking the Metro either in large numbers. No one from the suburbs needs to go there anyways because they are going to have a Macy’s closure to home that’s more convenient. Commercial office space is at less than 40% capacity. Not a lot of people live nearby. What would happen to downtown DC if Macys closed?

So what’s your plan for Macy’s? How do they stay in business and thrive given these conditions? Does it matter to you to make it easier for a DC resident to shop there versus choosing instead to go to a Macys in the suburbs?

What I see from you is a lot short sighted and frankly selfish advocacy that doesn’t look at the big picture and impacts of highly ideological desires actually affect your community.

The worst part about it is that I’m sure that once the city is destroyed, you’ll be off somewhere else leaving the wreckage behind and blaming your decision in a vaguely racist way on crime and public safety.

Say perhaps a resident of Brightwood that has a choice between Wheaton and Downtown DC. Do they take 16th out of the city or into downtown?

Your answer is that they'll take a bus downtown rather than drive to Wheaton. Decades of history tell us the opposite.

How many people go to Macy’s in person in the first place? Most people order online.

13% of purchases are online
56% of people prefer shopping in store
55% shop in person once a week
18% shop online once a week

The point also wasn't Macy's specific. For someone that lives in the heart of 16th Street every single choice is between going into the city or out of the city. If they want to go to a movie do they go to Silver Spring or Union Station? A lot of things go into that calculation, but, the most important ones are time and hassle. Intentionally increasing congestion and eliminating parking in the city swings the equation to Silver Spring.

union station doesn’t have a theater anymore … someone on 16th st who wants to go to the movies will probably go to Atlantic Plumbing. Have you been to U St in the past 10 years?

You are absurdly delusional. No one living in 16th Street Heights is doing anything on 9th and U Street for any reason. That’s why they live in 16th Street Heights.

There is a greater chance those folks get in their car and drive down to Georgetown for the AMC 14 than take a couple buses to go to a theatre in Shaw.

I’m sorry but it’s just impossible to take you seriously anymore.

Everyone understands very well what’s been going on on 9th Street in Shaw the last couple years.

Also, here’s a tip so that you don’t continue to expose yourself as an interloper to the area, just because the street says “U” doesn’t mean it’s the “U Street Neighborhood”. Jesus.

If someone choses to drive to Georgetown from 16th St Heights to go to the movies, that’s on them. The desire to create less traffic for that trip does not outweigh the far, far greater net benefit of 16th st bus lanes.

You’re completely impervious to any information that compromises they delicate pyramid of nonsense that you are balancing in your head.

Literally all you have been able to post is hypothetical scenarios about where someone wants to go to the movies. I’m begging you, make a coherent argument, with facts.

I am curious if you even bother to read the news? It’s super hilarious that you talk about facts but offer nothing yourself except opinions and ideology.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/05/24/dc-businesses-downtown-pandemic-suburbs/

does that article talk about bus lanes and Vision Zero causing economic harm?

I’m not sure how you are going to learn anything because you pointedly refuse to read any information that contradicts your world view. It’s like talking to a high school kid in Young Life about god. I get it, you’re on a messianic quest, so you’re just not going to assimilate anything that may cause you to confront your identity. The problem is just that the real world is completely at odds with you. Here’s another article I hope that you read and I hope you consider that no one is taking transit to the Mosiac District. You’re going to need to contend with that issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/comments/?storyUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Ftransportation%2F2022%2F05%2F24%2Fpandemic-suburbs-downtown-retail%2F

I’m

Nobody takes transit to the Mosaic District because it is in the suburbs, and there is no transit. And again, the question here is whether bus lanes etc are economically harming DC as you claim. Not whether DC’s economy is changing. Your belief is that for DC to survive it has to become more like the suburbs in traffic. I am saying that you have yet to present any actual evidence that becoming more car dependent is necessary for DC. As far as people who actually live in DC pre-pandemic, the statistics were a clear trend away from car trips. And as for safety, you have not made any actual argument at all why safety has to be sacrificed for DC’s economic viability.

You keep spouting the same bs every single time. Nobody had ever said anything about making DC car dependent or making DC traffic more suburban. Those are the strawmen you created for yourself. What people have said is that intentionally increasing congestion is a bad idea. That increasing congestion in-organically tilts the balance in a negative direction which harms the sustainability of our economic growth.

Here’s basic facts this person is immune to:
1. The median DC resident works in VA and shops and MD
2. A substantial part of the DC tax base - and even the economic health of many neighborhood retail businesses - is premised on people from the suburbs coming into the city to spend money
3. People in the suburbs are not coming in large numbers anymore, particularly on transit
4. Since COVID, thousands of retail businesses have closed in the city and opened in the suburbs
5. The city is currently putting in place actual physical obstacles that would make it less convenient for not just people in the suburbs, but even DC residents to shop in city.
6. Every dollar not spent in DC is a drag in the city’s finances
7. The DC CFO is sending alarm bells about the medium term budget projections.

However, despite all of this and based on nothing but belief, good vibes, and some random stuff they found on google, they are undeterred. And in a few years, this person and their buddies will all be gone and in their wake a massive mess for someone else to clean up.

Where are you getting these facts?

+1. I’m especially interested in #1. Who are these people? Who would live in DC but work in VA and shop in MD?

How is it possible to be so self-centered so as not to conceive that a whole world exists that does not revolve around you?

I think you need to deal with basic fact that you are not representative of the people that live in this city. DC residents work in less than a third of jobs located in the city. Driving is the most common way that DC residents get to work.

Get over yourself.

DP. I have posted actual research showing that car trips with DC declined substantially. I’ve begged you for actual evidence that transit and traffic calming are going to spell economic harm, and you have nothing except an imaginary DC resident who works in VA and shops in MD who would, in your view, go to Macys only if they could drive there at 40-50mph and park on the street in front of Macy’s.

“Actual research”. You clearly don’t live in the real world, so here are some actual facts that should help you.

- There has been a real decline in the population of this city. The 2022 population has reverted to 2015 levels. The population is likely to decline in 2022 for a third consecutive year.

- Transit ridership is less than 40% pre-pandemic levels and the rosiest projection is that it will take at least 2 more years to recover. However, that will still be significantly below the peak which was all the way back in 2008. There is no goal or plan

- The number of vehicle trips in DC are 70% of pre-pandemic levels but congestion is over 100% of pre-pandemic levels. So mission accomplished.

It’s all good though because you’ve got “actual research”.

You just keep on posting the same 3 priors (without any citations backing them up, by the way) as if they prove your conclusion: that we need to get rid of traffic calming and transit priorities in order to preserve the city's economy. Yes, well all know that covid impacted downtowns, that metro ridership is down, that people are changing their working patterns and may not be working downtown in the same numbers. NONE of that leads to your conclusion that we need to get more car friendly to save DC.

I’m really sorry for you. You absolutely refuse to educate yourself even a little bit and as a result you come across as someone who fancies themselves as smart and savvy but are just pretty dumb.

1. Population decline to 2015 levels
https://cfo.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ocfo/publication/attachments/MarchEI2022.pdf

2. Out-migration continuing at elevated level in Q1 2022, but more slowly than last two years
https://www.clevelandfed.org/~/media/content/newsroom%20and%20events/publications/cfed%20district%20data%20briefs/cfddb%2020210325/cfddb%2020210325%20q1%202022%20pdf.pdf?la=en

3. Bus ridership 88% and rail 35%
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/05/12/metrorail-bus-ridership-wmata/

4. Vehicle trips downtown are 70%
https://twitter.com/TSnyderDC/status/1529198695220187138

5. Road congestion has surpassed pre-pandemic as measured in time
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/03/19/return-office-driving-commute/

6. DC Area residents have not changed preference for car commuting in 50 years
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2022/05/06/greater-washingtons-commuters-continue-to-choose-gridlock/

I could go on and on and on. The problem for people like you is that you are impervious to any of this actual, real information. You confuse fact with opinion and conjecture with fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that a few thousand businesses have left downtown D.C. over the past two years, you would think that the city would be exploring ways to encourage more people to return and spend their money.

It may pain some District residents to hear this, but the city needs the suburbs. At this point, making the city less accessible by car will only hurt the District and strengthen the cycle of economic disinvestment and rising crime.

public transport must be improved, not private transport, which makes the city a terrible place. And as everybody knows: a lot of busniesses had to close in the last two years beacuse of the pandemic. Bikers and pedestrians are not the cause.

It’s fascinating that you believe the city is so enthralling that people in the suburbs will willingly and in large numbers take public transit into the city for recreation and entertainment purposes over other options, if only public transit was better? This is seriously deluded thinking that is contradicted by the fact that people in the suburbs refuse to take transit today to go to the city for work. But sure, on a Saturday they’ll hop on the metro for shopping or a performance at the Shakespeare Theatre when the same stores or high quality theatre experiences are available more conveniently and closer to home.

The reality is that another sectoral shift has occurred (starting back in 2015) away from cities and these policies just accelerate the inevitable.

it’s fascinating that you think the economic welfare of the city rests on people being able to drive into downtown and park for free in front of Macy’s to go shopping.

In your view, so you agree that it’s important for Macy’s to continue to have a store downtown? What would you think are the economic conditions that allow Macy’s presence in DC to continue to be viable?

It’s always been hard to go there and park. Metro Center is right there, but people are not taking the Metro either in large numbers. No one from the suburbs needs to go there anyways because they are going to have a Macy’s closure to home that’s more convenient. Commercial office space is at less than 40% capacity. Not a lot of people live nearby. What would happen to downtown DC if Macys closed?

So what’s your plan for Macy’s? How do they stay in business and thrive given these conditions? Does it matter to you to make it easier for a DC resident to shop there versus choosing instead to go to a Macys in the suburbs?

What I see from you is a lot short sighted and frankly selfish advocacy that doesn’t look at the big picture and impacts of highly ideological desires actually affect your community.

The worst part about it is that I’m sure that once the city is destroyed, you’ll be off somewhere else leaving the wreckage behind and blaming your decision in a vaguely racist way on crime and public safety.

Say perhaps a resident of Brightwood that has a choice between Wheaton and Downtown DC. Do they take 16th out of the city or into downtown?

Your answer is that they'll take a bus downtown rather than drive to Wheaton. Decades of history tell us the opposite.

How many people go to Macy’s in person in the first place? Most people order online.

13% of purchases are online
56% of people prefer shopping in store
55% shop in person once a week
18% shop online once a week

The point also wasn't Macy's specific. For someone that lives in the heart of 16th Street every single choice is between going into the city or out of the city. If they want to go to a movie do they go to Silver Spring or Union Station? A lot of things go into that calculation, but, the most important ones are time and hassle. Intentionally increasing congestion and eliminating parking in the city swings the equation to Silver Spring.

union station doesn’t have a theater anymore … someone on 16th st who wants to go to the movies will probably go to Atlantic Plumbing. Have you been to U St in the past 10 years?

You are absurdly delusional. No one living in 16th Street Heights is doing anything on 9th and U Street for any reason. That’s why they live in 16th Street Heights.

There is a greater chance those folks get in their car and drive down to Georgetown for the AMC 14 than take a couple buses to go to a theatre in Shaw.

I’m sorry but it’s just impossible to take you seriously anymore.

Everyone understands very well what’s been going on on 9th Street in Shaw the last couple years.

Also, here’s a tip so that you don’t continue to expose yourself as an interloper to the area, just because the street says “U” doesn’t mean it’s the “U Street Neighborhood”. Jesus.

If someone choses to drive to Georgetown from 16th St Heights to go to the movies, that’s on them. The desire to create less traffic for that trip does not outweigh the far, far greater net benefit of 16th st bus lanes.

You’re completely impervious to any information that compromises they delicate pyramid of nonsense that you are balancing in your head.

Literally all you have been able to post is hypothetical scenarios about where someone wants to go to the movies. I’m begging you, make a coherent argument, with facts.

I am curious if you even bother to read the news? It’s super hilarious that you talk about facts but offer nothing yourself except opinions and ideology.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/05/24/dc-businesses-downtown-pandemic-suburbs/

does that article talk about bus lanes and Vision Zero causing economic harm?

I’m not sure how you are going to learn anything because you pointedly refuse to read any information that contradicts your world view. It’s like talking to a high school kid in Young Life about god. I get it, you’re on a messianic quest, so you’re just not going to assimilate anything that may cause you to confront your identity. The problem is just that the real world is completely at odds with you. Here’s another article I hope that you read and I hope you consider that no one is taking transit to the Mosiac District. You’re going to need to contend with that issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/comments/?storyUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Ftransportation%2F2022%2F05%2F24%2Fpandemic-suburbs-downtown-retail%2F

I’m

Nobody takes transit to the Mosaic District because it is in the suburbs, and there is no transit. And again, the question here is whether bus lanes etc are economically harming DC as you claim. Not whether DC’s economy is changing. Your belief is that for DC to survive it has to become more like the suburbs in traffic. I am saying that you have yet to present any actual evidence that becoming more car dependent is necessary for DC. As far as people who actually live in DC pre-pandemic, the statistics were a clear trend away from car trips. And as for safety, you have not made any actual argument at all why safety has to be sacrificed for DC’s economic viability.

You keep spouting the same bs every single time. Nobody had ever said anything about making DC car dependent or making DC traffic more suburban. Those are the strawmen you created for yourself. What people have said is that intentionally increasing congestion is a bad idea. That increasing congestion in-organically tilts the balance in a negative direction which harms the sustainability of our economic growth.

Here’s basic facts this person is immune to:
1. The median DC resident works in VA and shops and MD
2. A substantial part of the DC tax base - and even the economic health of many neighborhood retail businesses - is premised on people from the suburbs coming into the city to spend money
3. People in the suburbs are not coming in large numbers anymore, particularly on transit
4. Since COVID, thousands of retail businesses have closed in the city and opened in the suburbs
5. The city is currently putting in place actual physical obstacles that would make it less convenient for not just people in the suburbs, but even DC residents to shop in city.
6. Every dollar not spent in DC is a drag in the city’s finances
7. The DC CFO is sending alarm bells about the medium term budget projections.

However, despite all of this and based on nothing but belief, good vibes, and some random stuff they found on google, they are undeterred. And in a few years, this person and their buddies will all be gone and in their wake a massive mess for someone else to clean up.

Where are you getting these facts?

+1. I’m especially interested in #1. Who are these people? Who would live in DC but work in VA and shop in MD?

right? I do almost all my shopping locally or online. Online shopping is the MUCH bigger economic game changer. Clothes are pretty much the only thing I may travel to VA for (mall). Unless we’re going to put a mall in downtown DC I’m not sure what the solution is. Sometimes I go downtown for the BR/AT/Macy’s trifecta but often prefer to metro to Pentagon City. And note … I go there specifically because I can metro there from DC!

I, I, I, I, I…..

It’s incredible that you, yourself represent 100% of the people in this city. Wow. I’m impressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.accessdevelopment.com/hubfs/Access_Consumer_Spend_Research_Study_2016.pdf

92% of shopping is done within 20 minutes of where someone lives. Time not distance is the determining factor.

Increased congestion increases the amount of time a trip takes.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883

4.5 minutes per trip of extra congestion is the tipping point for economic harm.

From your citations: "While higher ADT per freeway lane appears to slow productivity growth, there is no evidence of congestion-induced travel delay impeding productivity growth. Results suggest that the strict policy focus on travel time savings may be misplaced and, instead, better outlooks for managing congestion’s economic drag lie in prioritising the economically most important trips (perhaps through road pricing) or in providing alternative travel capacity to enable access despite congestion."

This is an argument for increasing public transit, PP.

If you can stay within the twenty minute limit. Metro trains only run every twenty minutes. Metro is limited in its utility by its frequency of service. But yes, the subway as an asset should be prioritized. A lazer focus on centering development at metro stations is the key. But please remember that you are proposing to inorganically intentionally increase congestion away from subway stations in order to force people to give up cars. That is your stated goal.

I'm not sure who you think you are talking to. You, or OP, are the one who started this conversation asserting that DC needs to get less pedestrian safe/deprioritize transit to ensure economic development.