D.C. teacher firings prompted by bad math

[Anonymous]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/D_C_-teacher-firings-prompted-by-bad-math-90757329.html

According to the Washington Examiner, "Erroneous budget calculations brought on the firing of 266 D.C. Public Schools teachers in the fall." Wow. Just wow. This is absolutely ridiculous. Laying off people when there was actually money in the budget to pay them.

It's time for Rhee to go.

[Anonymous]

Wow just wow is right. You're suggesting Rhee should be fired because another office that she has no control over screwed up?

Sorry, but the anti-Rhee bias of a small but vocal few on this board is getting really tiresome.

[Anonymous]

Too true! I have to say, this board turned me from neutral to a Fenty supporter, just 'cause I'm sick of the anti-Rhee venom. I'm giving money to his campaign this year. If Rhee is doing her job right, she's going to piss off about half of DC half of the time. The test scores are going up, and DC Public schools is an incredibly responsive organization now, and that's all to the good. There. That's my one and only pro-Rhee post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Too true! I have to say, this board turned me from neutral to a Fenty supporter, just 'cause I'm sick of the anti-Rhee venom. I'm giving money to his campaign this year. If Rhee is doing her job right, she's going to piss off about half of DC half of the time. The test scores are going up, and DC Public schools is an incredibly responsive organization now, and that's all to the good. There. That's my one and only pro-Rhee post.

Seriously? Just because of anonymous postings on the internet you've changed your political support and are willing to donate money? Wow, talk about impressionable.

[Anonymous]

My favorite part:

"If I were one of the fired teachers, I would be ready to put my hands around someone's throat and squeeze till there was no air left," said Council Chairman Vincent Gray. "At the end of the day, some people's pay raises [would be] funded with someone else's job."

Pardon my French, but who gives a crap? Ponder, for a moment, the staggering level of entitlement contained in this quote. DCPS has made a decision to offer merit pay raises to stellar teachers, and they fired some other teachers to free up the money.

Who cares? Pay the good teachers more, fire the bad teachers, and hire some more. Repeat as necessary.

The fact that Fenty's opponent in the coming election seems to view DCPS as a job-creation program for Maryland residents doesn't bode well for a post- Fenty/Rhee DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My favorite part:

"If I were one of the fired teachers, I would be ready to put my hands around someone's throat and squeeze till there was no air left," said Council Chairman Vincent Gray. "At the end of the day, some people's pay raises [would be] funded with someone else's job."

Pardon my French, but who gives a crap? Ponder, for a moment, the staggering level of entitlement contained in this quote. DCPS has made a decision to offer merit pay raises to stellar teachers, and they fired some other teachers to free up the money.

Who cares? Pay the good teachers more, fire the bad teachers, and hire some more. Repeat as necessary.

The fact that Fenty's opponent in the coming election seems to view DCPS as a job-creation program for Maryland residents doesn't bode well for a post- Fenty/Rhee DC.

But this ignores the fact that the decisions about who to fire were put in the hands of the local principals, some of whom were newly-installed and had no idea who was a good teacher & who wasn't. The request was also framed in terms of maximizing the $ freed up, meaning that there was incentive to fire the highest-paid teachers--some of whom had good salaries due to advanced degrees and longevity at the school.

[Anonymous]

Agreed. People - - including teachers - are not entitled to keep a job just because they had the smarts to get one.

[Anonymous]

But this ignores the fact that the decisions about who to fire were put in the hands of the local principals, some of whom were newly-installed and had no idea who was a good teacher & who wasn't

As PP implied, if a minority of the job force had been fired at a large corporation in order to free up money for salaries elsewhere, and the "decisions about who to fire were put in the hands of local [managers], some of whom were [newly-hired]" this would be the most uninteresting non-story ever published. Well, it wouldn't actually be published, because it wouldn't even rise to the level of a non-story.

But since it's in an industry where job-security takes precedence over all other considerations, we have folks reacting with shock and disbelief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But this ignores the fact that the decisions about who to fire were put in the hands of the local principals, some of whom were newly-installed and had no idea who was a good teacher & who wasn't

As PP implied, if a minority of the job force had been fired at a large corporation in order to free up money for salaries elsewhere, and the "decisions about who to fire were put in the hands of local [managers], some of whom were [newly-hired]" this would be the most uninteresting non-story ever published. Well, it wouldn't actually be published, because it wouldn't even rise to the level of a non-story.

But since it's in an industry where job-security takes precedence over all other considerations, we have folks reacting with shock and disbelief.

Really? Because when something similar happened at my company, morale sank like a rock. It taught us that senior management doesn't give a damn about good work or the human beings who do it. Voluntary departures are way up, and will shoot up yet further once our industry recovers.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Pardon my French, but who gives a crap? Ponder, for a moment, the staggering level of entitlement contained in this quote. DCPS has made a decision to offer merit pay raises to stellar teachers, and they fired some other teachers to free up the money.

Who cares? Pay the good teachers more, fire the bad teachers, and hire some more. Repeat as necessary.

The fact that Fenty's opponent in the coming election seems to view DCPS as a job-creation program for Maryland residents doesn't bode well for a post- Fenty/Rhee DC.

I have a question. Is there any value to honesty anymore? Because, Rhee and her supporters have shown little to no honesty in this discussion. Just try to answer this question: why were 229 teachers laid off last October? Is it possible for anyone to give an honest answer to this question?

Here are some of the answers that have been provided:

1) They slept with and beat children;
2) They were bad teachers who deserved to be fired;
3) They were bad teachers who were let go because of a budget deficit;
4) They were good, bad, and mediocre teachers who were let go because of a budget deficit caused by Council cuts to the budget;
5) They were mostly good teachers let go because of a budget deficit that was not disclosed by Noah Wepman (who was fired) and exacerbated by Council cuts to the schools Summer program;
6) They were old and black (okay, Rhee hasn't said this one);
7) They were those who were no longer needed and chosen solely by careful evaluations of each individual school's needs with no reflection on the teachers' qualifications; and
8) new to the game: they were let go in order to free up money for merit pay increases.

Most of these are mutually exclusive. I look forward to an honest answer from a Rhee apologist.

On, btw, it's a minor matter, but it turns out there was actually a budget surplus rather than a budget deficit. Noah Wepman's fault, of course.

[Anonymous]

Actually, Wepman's role was pretty apalling. I nearly threw up when I saw his testimony and the whole "I work for Ghandi not Rhee" chaos. But pay-for-performance is not a perfect science even in the corporate world. So that makes me nervous about retention of good teachers and capacity of master teachers to get good ones to great. BTW. What happened to the TEAM school-wide incentive program that rewarded all staff in a school? It seemed like one of the experiments that made sense. (Unlike Capital Gains. ugh)

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Pardon my French, but who gives a crap? Ponder, for a moment, the staggering level of entitlement contained in this quote. DCPS has made a decision to offer merit pay raises to stellar teachers, and they fired some other teachers to free up the money.

Who cares? Pay the good teachers more, fire the bad teachers, and hire some more. Repeat as necessary.

The fact that Fenty's opponent in the coming election seems to view DCPS as a job-creation program for Maryland residents doesn't bode well for a post- Fenty/Rhee DC.

I have a question. Is there any value to honesty anymore? Because, Rhee and her supporters have shown little to no honesty in this discussion. Just try to answer this question: why were 229 teachers laid off last October? Is it possible for anyone to give an honest answer to this question?

Here are some of the answers that have been provided:

1) They slept with and beat children;
2) They were bad teachers who deserved to be fired;
3) They were bad teachers who were let go because of a budget deficit;
4) They were good, bad, and mediocre teachers who were let go because of a budget deficit caused by Council cuts to the budget;
5) They were mostly good teachers let go because of a budget deficit that was not disclosed by Noah Wepman (who was fired) and exacerbated by Council cuts to the schools Summer program;
6) They were old and black (okay, Rhee hasn't said this one);
7) They were those who were no longer needed and chosen solely by careful evaluations of each individual school's needs with no reflection on the teachers' qualifications; and
8) new to the game: they were let go in order to free up money for merit pay increases.

Most of these are mutually exclusive. I look forward to an honest answer from a Rhee apologist.

On, btw, it's a minor matter, but it turns out there was actually a budget surplus rather than a budget deficit. Noah Wepman's fault, of course.

To be fair, Jeff, I haven’t seen anyone advance the rationale you made in #*8 – while the savings will be used to pay for the new increases, there was nothing in the Examiner article to suggest that that was the PURPOSE of the terminations. And while #6 may be your opinion, I’m not sure there’s any evidence to support it.

I’m no Rhee apologist, and not a supporter of Fenty (didn’t vote for him the first time, and I certainly won’t this time). I agree that there have been shifting rationale regarding the terminations – I guess the questions is how to interpret it. I guess I attribute the problems to a counterproductive defensiveness in Rhee, coupled with an overly confrontation attitude. She wants to PROVE she’s right, and she seizes an explanation that may have some truth in it but doesn’t encompass the whole story. Not helpful, and an appalling character trait in a Chancellor. However, I’m not sure it rises to the level of dishonesty.

I’m willing to cut her some slack because DC schools were in such disarray when she took over. I’m genuinely curious over the roots of your obvious antipathy for her – do you remember when it started? Not saying it’s undeserved, but I can’t remember anything in her tenure here that would cause the implacable, seemingly irreversible distaste you have for her.

[Anonymous]

I bumped into someone in the know about DC education issues this weekend and she noted that one problem with the current contract is this merit pay model will increase the pension board considerably because the pensions are not being funded by private funds. Count me as someone who wants Rhee to go!

[Anonymous]

the pension burden. sorry.

[Anonymous]

What does one say to the good teachers who were let go because of budget cuts? Too bad for you?

As one pp said, this is bad for morale of the teachers left behind. If I were a teacher, why would I trust the administration when they don't know even know how much money they have? Or if I were considering whether to apply to DCPS for a job why should I trust them?

I talked to one of the assistant principals who joined DCPS through that special program designed to train new principals. She was worried about whether to stay on at DCPS or to go back home. She didn't trust the administration to have her back. Not how I would build a loyal staff.