Top team aggressively fouling second team in scrimmages

[Anonymous]

Our club pretty regularly has our top and second team scrimmage during practice. Not surprisingly, the top team is pretty dominant. However, as the parent of a second team defender, I think the experience is good for her.

That said, my DD complains that whenever she has sustained success defending a couple of players, they will lose their temper and start doing things like intentionally cleating her while fighting for the ball.

When I played, there was a clear answer to this that involved physically showing you wouldn’t tolerate it. I am wary of recommending this, though, given club politics, the risk of angering the top team coach, and I can see a situation where the top team player starts something, my DD responds, then the top team player plays the victim. I strongly suspect the club does not want their second team defenders being overly physical with their top strikers, but if those players are playing dirty, I’d the best option really just to take it or play matador defense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our club pretty regularly has our top and second team scrimmage during practice. Not surprisingly, the top team is pretty dominant. However, as the parent of a second team defender, I think the experience is good for her.

That said, my DD complains that whenever she has sustained success defending a couple of players, they will lose their temper and start doing things like intentionally cleating her while fighting for the ball.

When I played, there was a clear answer to this that involved physically showing you wouldn’t tolerate it. I am wary of recommending this, though, given club politics, the risk of angering the top team coach, and I can see a situation where the top team player starts something, my DD responds, then the top team player plays the victim. I strongly suspect the club does not want their second team defenders being overly physical with their top strikers, but if those players are playing dirty, I’d the best option really just to take it or play matador defense?

Interesting topic. Looking forward to the responses. My son is on a top team and they often scrimmage the age group above's top team. The younger team is expected to take ZERO crap from the older boys. If they do, they hear about it. With that said, the boys pretty much respect each other and there is no dirty play but sometimes hard fouls occur and tempers flair just in general. With that said, I do remember just playing scrimmages against other clubs without refs. It always bothered me because kids try to get away with everything and the stuff you mentioned happened all the time. I told the coach that my kid won't participate in scrimmages without refs anymore. However, that's different from scrimmaging teams from the same club. In your situation, I would definitely tell my kid to talk to her coach about this. See what the coach has to say. maybe the coach will tell her to clobber the striker next time and you don't have to get involved. If the coach tells her to shrug it off, I would tell my kid to clobber the striker next time and then deal with the fallout.

[Anonymous]

In what universe would your kid just not…ask the coach for, you know, coaching and guidance in this matter?!

[Anonymous]

I would tell my DD that teammates are who you will meet in the games. Practice on them. Play as clean as you can. When they start something, match the "something." Learn to cleat back.

Have DD ask the coach outside other players hearing if he would like her to cleat back when she is cleated. His response will be interesting and informative and her test as to what kind of coach he is and what kind of coach she would prefer to work with.

Ignore politics. Ignore the other coach's anger, if is comes to that. There is some concern reading your description that the coach is allowing the cleating or is aware and is ignoring it. Perhaps the top coach wants his girls to use the other second team as a punching bag. Coach's answers to DD's inquiry will help reveal that.

Another way to look at the situation is the top team is defending their positions. DD must take it from them. IF she is told to stand down, that would be a red flag for me and I would begin a casual look at other teams for next season. But meanwhile, she is in a great position to improve her play from the top team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our club pretty regularly has our top and second team scrimmage during practice. Not surprisingly, the top team is pretty dominant. However, as the parent of a second team defender, I think the experience is good for her.

That said, my DD complains that whenever she has sustained success defending a couple of players, they will lose their temper and start doing things like intentionally cleating her while fighting for the ball.

When I played, there was a clear answer to this that involved physically showing you wouldn’t tolerate it. I am wary of recommending this, though, given club politics, the risk of angering the top team coach, and I can see a situation where the top team player starts something, my DD responds, then the top team player plays the victim. I strongly suspect the club does not want their second team defenders being overly physical with their top strikers, but if those players are playing dirty, I’d the best option really just to take it or play matador defense?

Do you coach the second team?

If not, this isn't your place to ask or deal with.

[Anonymous]

What age?

[Anonymous]

I grew up playing soccer in a different country. Times have changed, things are different here, and this is an anonymous online forum, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Strikers should be made to know that it is not ok to commit dirty fouls on defenders (or the keeper!). Strikers often receive the ball with their back to the defender. A strong charge or shove to the back next time the striker gets the ball sends the right message and is not likely to cause an injury.

What's even better is if the whole defensive unit has each other's back. The first time a striker commits a dirty foul, the whole defense yells at the striker and confronts her (no need for shoving or physical contact, just make sure two or more people yell at her or confront her). This might be enough. Next time the striker fouls anybody in the defense, everybody takes a turn fouling her back, preferably away from the goal. This kind of unity is not always possible to achieve in youth teams. But I guarantee that if a few girls stand up for each other as a group, other teams will think twice before starting to play dirty.

[Anonymous]

My DS team doesn’t scrimmage at all. I wish they could scrimmage the older players. It would really help players to be ready for game day and be more aggressive.

[Anonymous]

If the coaches won’t control it, it’s up to her team to foul back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In what universe would your kid just not…ask the coach for, you know, coaching and guidance in this matter?!

In a universe where keeping quiet and tolerating abuse is rampant- aka most sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would tell my DD that teammates are who you will meet in the games. Practice on them. Play as clean as you can. When they start something, match the "something." Learn to cleat back.

Have DD ask the coach outside other players hearing if he would like her to cleat back when she is cleated. His response will be interesting and informative and her test as to what kind of coach he is and what kind of coach she would prefer to work with.

Ignore politics. Ignore the other coach's anger, if is comes to that. There is some concern reading your description that the coach is allowing the cleating or is aware and is ignoring it. Perhaps the top coach wants his girls to use the other second team as a punching bag. Coach's answers to DD's inquiry will help reveal that.

Another way to look at the situation is the top team is defending their positions. DD must take it from them. IF she is told to stand down, that would be a red flag for me and I would begin a casual look at other teams for next season. But meanwhile, she is in a great position to improve her play from the top team.

I have teen boys, but I also played very competitively as a girl on a top team through college. There are no friends on the field. People will fight tooth and nail to keep their position and standing on the top team. One of my 'nice' kids doesn't get that and is always a bit dismayed when it turns south for him. The younger one is much scrappier and won't put up with sh*t damn the consequences. For sports, obviously the latter will take you much farther.

Now, your own team is something different. Cleating your own teammates is a no-no--unless of course some a-hole does it to you first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the coaches won’t control it, it’s up to her team to foul back.

Yeah--there was a player that was always dirty fouling everyone in practice scrimmages and got away with it because he was coach's pet. Teammates had enough over time and laid his *ss flat. If you are going to give it, you should have the expectation that someone is going to give it right back.

[Anonymous]

She shouldn’t put up with it. Your instincts are correct.

[Anonymous]

It usually works the other way around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In what universe would your kid just not…ask the coach for, you know, coaching and guidance in this matter?!

Because complaining that the better players are fouling makes you look weak and some kids won’t take that to the coach.