Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I'm not religious, but I think that in a pluralistic society, it all depends on the context.

There are plenty of contexts where it would be insulting to tell believers "the basis of everything you believe is false." Nearly all of us (even most atheists) live under a set of beliefs that is more nuanced than the law of the jungle, and if pressed the answer why is some version of "because I like it that way" ... so all of us can show some humility about the 'worldviews' of others.

But I also agree w/ the previous posters that in a debate about comparative religions (for example), believers shouldn't be able to shut down debate by claiming offense ... and should just roll with it or disengage ... especially on the internet where, as far as I can tell, no one ever changes their mind in response to any reasoned argument (in one direction or the other). In those contexts, the non-believers should be allowed some civil way to make the point that "you are the one asserting supernatural things" without the believers quibbling endlessly over language and insults etc. If it isn't a reference to "myth," perhaps there's some other turn of phrase that gives less offense?

I agree. I think there have been a lot of thoughtful replies to this thread that all boil down to the fact that context makes all the difference to whether or not something is offensive.

Yes, you have the right to say whatever you want and even more so to believe whatever you want. But people are not necessarily trying to silence you when they point out that your words might be hurtful or harmful. And on the flipside, taking offense to something because you don't like some of the people on the other side is not helpful; not everyone is a troll.

So can I say any of these here:

- your religion is a myth
- your religion is like Santa Claus or fairies
- atheists are immoral
- atheists will rot in he!!

I like my coffee with cream. Currently at work but texting with DD

Well, see, your context and tone imply that you are not engaging in thoughtful discussion of religion and/or atheism, but just looking to stir the pot. Thank you for providing such a clear example.

DP. PP was clearly hyper-provocative, but as an atheist I don't get offended if any believer types that "atheists are immoral" or "atheists will rot in he!!" because I know that they sincerely believe that.

But I don't believe that. So why would I get offended?

I would prefer, as you state, "engaging in thoughtful discussion of religion and/or atheism". I am willing to change my position if shown sufficient evidence.

It depends on the context. On DCUM? No. IRL with friends/family? Sure.

Pp with the 4 examples. I agree with this. Don’t insult people on DCUM where your tone isn’t clear. The moderator seems to agree (see Website Feedback).

No, this isn’t a forum where you get to hide behind anonymity to troll or be as nasty as possible. Even if you think insults are effective in winning people over to your side, lol.

If you have friends and family you can do this with, go for it (but don’t be like my atheist BIL who is a dick about it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I'm not religious, but I think that in a pluralistic society, it all depends on the context.

There are plenty of contexts where it would be insulting to tell believers "the basis of everything you believe is false." Nearly all of us (even most atheists) live under a set of beliefs that is more nuanced than the law of the jungle, and if pressed the answer why is some version of "because I like it that way" ... so all of us can show some humility about the 'worldviews' of others.

But I also agree w/ the previous posters that in a debate about comparative religions (for example), believers shouldn't be able to shut down debate by claiming offense ... and should just roll with it or disengage ... especially on the internet where, as far as I can tell, no one ever changes their mind in response to any reasoned argument (in one direction or the other). In those contexts, the non-believers should be allowed some civil way to make the point that "you are the one asserting supernatural things" without the believers quibbling endlessly over language and insults etc. If it isn't a reference to "myth," perhaps there's some other turn of phrase that gives less offense?

I agree. I think there have been a lot of thoughtful replies to this thread that all boil down to the fact that context makes all the difference to whether or not something is offensive.

Yes, you have the right to say whatever you want and even more so to believe whatever you want. But people are not necessarily trying to silence you when they point out that your words might be hurtful or harmful. And on the flipside, taking offense to something because you don't like some of the people on the other side is not helpful; not everyone is a troll.

So can I say any of these here:

- your religion is a myth
- your religion is like Santa Claus or fairies
- atheists are immoral
- atheists will rot in he!!

I like my coffee with cream. Currently at work but texting with DD

Well, see, your context and tone imply that you are not engaging in thoughtful discussion of religion and/or atheism, but just looking to stir the pot. Thank you for providing such a clear example.

DP. PP was clearly hyper-provocative, but as an atheist I don't get offended if any believer types that "atheists are immoral" or "atheists will rot in he!!" because I know that they sincerely believe that.

But I don't believe that. So why would I get offended?

I would prefer, as you state, "engaging in thoughtful discussion of religion and/or atheism". I am willing to change my position if shown sufficient evidence.

It depends on the context. On DCUM? No. IRL with friends/family? Sure.

Pp with the 4 examples. I agree with this. Don’t insult people on DCUM where your tone isn’t clear. The moderator seems to agree (see Website Feedback).

No, this isn’t a forum where you get to hide behind anonymity to troll or be as nasty as possible. Even if you think insults are effective in winning people over to your side, lol.

If you have friends and family you can do this with, go for it (but don’t be like my atheist BIL who is a dick about it).

No, you completely misunderstood my comment.

I don’t get offended by comments about hell/immoral on DCUM. But I would in person if it’s a friend/family member lashing out at me directly.

[Anonymous]

And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

The vast, vast majority of elected officials and all presidents claim to be Christians and say their Christian beliefs and faith guide them in their life and job. No president or elected official or media outlet refers to these beliefs or faith as Christian “myths.”

President Biden doesn’t talk about the “myths” that have shaped his life when he speaks of his Christianity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

The vast, vast majority of elected officials and all presidents claim to be Christians and say their Christian beliefs and faith guide them in their life and job. No president or elected official or media outlet refers to these beliefs or faith as Christian “myths.”

President Biden doesn’t talk about the “myths” that have shaped his life when he speaks of his Christianity.

?? but religious myths are the subject of this thread. I don't think any of us are running for elected office, so it isn't remotely relevant to the question what politicians say in order to get elected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

Oh my stars. I am the quoted PP. I dropped this thread when I realized I wasn’t getting through but since you are revisiting, let me try again.

I am a middle aged boring suburban woman. My time is spent on scintillating things like keeping on top of DC1’s college application process and getting DC2 to soccer practice on time while managing a career, a husband, a home and extended family. I have no need to opine on anyone’s religion. It doesn’t come up.

The probability of my telling anyone that I think their religious beliefs are a myth in general is zero. It’s not relevant to my life and also why? Provided your religion is not abusing anyone, it really doesn’t impinge on me.

The only reason that I might discuss with anyone that I believe that religion is a myth is when we are talking about religious texts and their interpretation which are being used to underpin rules for all of society (like recent SC decisions). Then I do think it’s reasonable for me to say that basing our laws on religion is wrong. The reason it’s wrong (other than it’s not allowed in our constitution) is that religious belief is based on stories that are not accepted by all (believers and non believers alike). And in that context, it is important to share the fact that some of us think religions are myths. If the religion didn’t affect my life, I would have exactly no reason to ever share what I think about religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

The vast, vast majority of elected officials and all presidents claim to be Christians and say their Christian beliefs and faith guide them in their life and job. No president or elected official or media outlet refers to these beliefs or faith as Christian “myths.”

President Biden doesn’t talk about the “myths” that have shaped his life when he speaks of his Christianity.

?? but religious myths are the subject of this thread. I don't think any of us are running for elected office, so it isn't remotely relevant to the question what politicians say in order to get elected.

Why doesn’t anyone else but a handful of atheists posting online call Christianity a “myth?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

The vast, vast majority of elected officials and all presidents claim to be Christians and say their Christian beliefs and faith guide them in their life and job. No president or elected official or media outlet refers to these beliefs or faith as Christian “myths.”

President Biden doesn’t talk about the “myths” that have shaped his life when he speaks of his Christianity.

?? but religious myths are the subject of this thread. I don't think any of us are running for elected office, so it isn't remotely relevant to the question what politicians say in order to get elected.

Why doesn’t anyone else but a handful of atheists posting online call Christianity a “myth?”

Well maybe they haven't been exposed to a thread on an internet forum that asked that question? I just happen to be a fan of the subject mythology (which is very closely related to religion) and saw the topic on "Recent topics" so I jumped in. And I don't hear anyone saying Christianity is a myth a
necessarily, but the NT (since you brought it up) is full of mythical stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

The vast, vast majority of elected officials and all presidents claim to be Christians and say their Christian beliefs and faith guide them in their life and job. No president or elected official or media outlet refers to these beliefs or faith as Christian “myths.”

President Biden doesn’t talk about the “myths” that have shaped his life when he speaks of his Christianity.

?? but religious myths are the subject of this thread. I don't think any of us are running for elected office, so it isn't remotely relevant to the question what politicians say in order to get elected.

Why doesn’t anyone else but a handful of atheists posting online call Christianity a “myth?”

There are hundreds of books, videos and other websites and sub forums that refer to it that way.

It’s clear that you have not done any homework on this. That’s fine, you are not obligated to. But don’t pretend it is an isolated thing.

Let me know if you want directions to other sources. Happy to oblige.

[Anonymous]

Atheist pp’s, the moderator on the website forum says people of faith get to decide whether “myth” is insulting. Not you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

The vast, vast majority of elected officials and all presidents claim to be Christians and say their Christian beliefs and faith guide them in their life and job. No president or elected official or media outlet refers to these beliefs or faith as Christian “myths.”

President Biden doesn’t talk about the “myths” that have shaped his life when he speaks of his Christianity.

?? but religious myths are the subject of this thread. I don't think any of us are running for elected office, so it isn't remotely relevant to the question what politicians say in order to get elected.

Why doesn’t anyone else but a handful of atheists posting online call Christianity a “myth?”

https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Christian-Supremacy-Restoring-Democratic/dp/1506482139/ref=sr_1_8?qid=1689633575&refinements=p_27%3ABurton+L.+Mack&s=books&sr=1-8&text=Burton+L.+Mack

"The Myth of Christian Supremacy is the culmination of a lifelong scholarly inquiry into Christian history, religion as a social institution, and the role of myth in the history of religions. Mack shows that religions are essentially mythological, and that Christianity has been an ever-changing mythological engine of social formation, from Roman times to its distinct American expression in our time.

Burton Mack explores cultural influence of the Christian myth over the last sixteen hundred years and asks whether religion has anything left to say about the social and cultural issues of the present state of the world."

Burton L. Mack was the Wesley Professor Emeritus of Early Christianity at Claremont School of Theology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is trying to “win you over”. LOL.

An atheist posted earlier in the thread that she thinks insulting DCUM’s dozen religion forum posters will cause America to go atheist and fix the Supreme Court. I mean, I think the current SC sucks too, but really? I’m not making this up. LOL.

Page? Timestamp?

I’m guessing that you are (intentionally?) misrepresenting what was said.

Page 33 @22:39

“Unless of course the religious (like the conservative majority on the court) try to impose their religion on the rest of us. Suddenly, one does feel like you need to get a larger share of the population to see that their baseline is a set of “myths” that non believers should not have to live under.”

The vast, vast majority of elected officials and all presidents claim to be Christians and say their Christian beliefs and faith guide them in their life and job. No president or elected official or media outlet refers to these beliefs or faith as Christian “myths.”

President Biden doesn’t talk about the “myths” that have shaped his life when he speaks of his Christianity.

?? but religious myths are the subject of this thread. I don't think any of us are running for elected office, so it isn't remotely relevant to the question what politicians say in order to get elected.

Why doesn’t anyone else but a handful of atheists posting online call Christianity a “myth?”

https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Christian-Supremacy-Restoring-Democratic/dp/1506482139/ref=sr_1_8?qid=1689633575&refinements=p_27%3ABurton+L.+Mack&s=books&sr=1-8&text=Burton+L.+Mack

"The Myth of Christian Supremacy is the culmination of a lifelong scholarly inquiry into Christian history, religion as a social institution, and the role of myth in the history of religions. Mack shows that religions are essentially mythological, and that Christianity has been an ever-changing mythological engine of social formation, from Roman times to its distinct American expression in our time.

Burton Mack explores cultural influence of the Christian myth over the last sixteen hundred years and asks whether religion has anything left to say about the social and cultural issues of the present state of the world."

Burton L. Mack was the Wesley Professor Emeritus of Early Christianity at Claremont School of Theology.

Burton who? It has exactly 1 review on Amazon and is ranked 2,754,463.

Obviously your goal here is to keep in insulting Christians.