Behind in Math Courses - how does that affect College Admissions down the road?
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Anonymous
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My ninth grade son dropped Geometry this year and retook Algebra 1 instead. (He switched schools.) He was getting very low grades and was very upset about it so we thought it was all for the best.
Apparently he skated thru algebra last year (with an A average!) but actually did not learn the concepts. The school says he can take regular Geometry over the summer and be back on the main math track of the school. He doesn't want to do this as it pretty much ruins his summer (6 week course). Otherwise he will remain in the lower track math for the school which mean less rigorous math classes (eg geometry without learning proofs, no calculus statistics instead). If he stays in the lower math track, how limiting will that be in college admissions down the road? He is a good student and has tested well on standardized tests. |
Anonymous
Says a lot about the meaninglessness of grades these days. |
Anonymous
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He skated through Algebra and got an 'A'. He does well on standardized tests.
I'm curious to know what made you realize that he had never grasped the concepts in Algebra I and had to retake the course. |
Anonymous
| Get back on track! |
Anonymous
| If he's looking outside about top 50, or majoring in engineering, it matters very little. Strong grades and SAT scores will be more important. |
Anonymous
| My 2 kids in colleges ranked 40-60ish only had up to Statistics in HS. |
Anonymous
In more rigorous school he was getting Ds and below on quizzes. Besides that he has frustrated by homework problems that didnt have a set procedure to solve. Last year he learned procedures and memorized formulas but did not learn learn actual math concepts like the some of the basic theorems. eg associative, distributive |
Anonymous
Thanks for clarifying. It's a good thing that you were on top of things like that and had him retake Algebra. |
Anonymous
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Well, there are 2 different issues here. The first is whether you want him to get to calculus in high school. The second is whether you want him to have a rigorous math education.
Regarding the first: in the school system I am most familiar with, the standard sequence for college-bound students is: algebra I, geometry, algebra II, pre-calculus/trig, calculus. (Advanced students can go further.) Obviously, this means that if you are going to get to calculus, you either need to (1) complete algebra I in middle school, or (2) take a summer school class, or (3) double up on math classes. If you want your son to take calculus in high school, the only options left for him are 2 or 3. So, if calculus is the goal, (2) is probably the best option. So the question is: is calculus necessary? Unless he is pursuing engineering, etc, probably not. Some elite colleges might like to see calculus, but if his math SAT/ACT scores are good, it's not a deal breaker not to have calculus. And once you get outside the elite (say, top 20 on the USNWR list) schools, it is a total non-issue. Now onto the second, and IMO, much more important issue: math rigor. Let me get this straight: He was in one of the more rigorous geometry classes at his school this year, but dropped it? And took Algebra I instead? And now his options are to take the more rigorous geometry class in 6 weeks over the summer or to take a watered down version of geometry as a sophomore? If my understanding is correct, this is crap, and I would push back hard on the school on this, including climbing over the guidance counselor, to the math faculty, to the principal, to the administration, and on to the school board if necessary. Because it sounds like this school system is basically saying that kids who aren't on the advanced track at age 13 are consigned to the dust heap of math, with no opportunity to study math intensively. What could possibly be the reason for this policy? Who is it serving? There is no good reason why he can't take the rigorous geometry class as a sophomore, and the rigorous algebra II class as a junior, etc. So he will be a year older than the other kids in the class. What possible difference could that make? |
Anonymous
This is actually incredibly common among bright kids who take algebra before they are developmentally ready for it, and it's a real problem in math education today. There are plenty of kids who aren't ready for algebra in middle school (and even more who aren't ready for it in 7th grade), but that doesn't mean they aren't good candidates for a rigorous math education. |
Anonymous
| Depends on which college. Knew a student admitted to the engineering program and honors college (50ish USWR ranked public) with only HS pre-calc but he did have 700+ math. OOS was probably a hook. Doubt he would have gotten in to our own state U's engineering program - though, I too would have preferred the OOS school. OP, can you afford OOS or private? If not, follow the heard. There is probably a well-worn path from whatever high school he is attending to the various in-state publics - go ask. |
Anonymous
| meant "herd" |
Anonymous
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My 9th grader is in the same situation. Because of transferring schools so many times, he is only in algebra this year and is at least a year behind most of the other students at his school (the majority are in geometry at 9th graders). He is actually pretty good at math, understands the concepts, and is getting all A’s so far in algebra 1.
My DS really doesn’t want to take geometry over the summer either and his guidance counselor recommended against it because it is more geared for students that didn’t pass the course during the school year and won’t give a good foundation. So instead he will take honors geometry next year as a 10th grader. This will at least put him on track to graduate with honors pre-calc completed. Yes, I do worry about the impact that not having high school calculus will have on my son’s college options but I figure it is more important to have a firm foundation in math, get decent grades, and do well on the math portion of the SAT/ACT. If your son didn’t get algebra the first time around, it sounds like retaking it was a smart move. If your son did well with algebra this year, I don’t see why he couldn’t take honors geometry next year and at least get on the honors track. Like the PP, I would insist on this if I were you! |
Anonymous
| OP, this is difficult because your son is young and you offer no glimpse into what you think he may/may not want to study (ok, he may have no idea yet) nor what your expectations are for him, if any yet, for the type of college he will attend. If he was likely going to major in art, communications, English, history, etc., I would say it would make no difference and let him enjoy the summer. Same is true if he is not seeking entrance to highly selective schools. And if he hates math, that answers it too. But if he seems to like math and wants to keep options open, then I would consider the summer. Another consideration is that in my experience high schools are better at teaching basic calculus than many colleges. You will have a real teacher in high school; in college you may have a prof or at TA or someone whose first language is not English and is difficult to understand. My first child regretted passing up the offer to take geometry in the summer to accelerate a year. It did not hurt admissions -- he's a very top university -- but many (maybe most) of the kids taking calculus in these colleges already studied it in high school and that impacts the grading curves common in STEM classes. |
Anonymous
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I would insist he take the summer class, and get him a tutor throughout high school, so that he can be exposed to AND understand the concepts! I had mild ADD at his age, was on a STEM track and struggled through the most advanced math classes without truly understanding the concepts. I see now I would have benefited from a tutor. |