Business major - which school would you choose between

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. Love hearing the feedback. We very likely will not have these 4 options lol. Like beyond unlikely. But thinking ahead because DS got into UGA and was offered money (not a ton) but still waiting on Wisconsin, UT Austin, UF, UNC (won't get in) Michigan, UMD oh and Vanderbilt (ridiculous reach along w. UNC)

I was told Wisconsin was "better" or more competitive than UGA.

I just panicked cause Michigan is a fortune and I know he would want to go on the unlikely chance he got in.

So in a hypothetical gets in everywhere and money is no object situation, it would be Vanderbilt, Michigan, Texas, UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, UMD, Florida.

But everyone has their realities.

Texas and UNC are going to be unlikely. They don't take a lot of OOS. Vanderbilt is very good with financial aid, so if that works, definitely.

The real conundrum is Michigan. Great school. Ross does very well with placement. But it's fricking expensive for OOS. The kid really needs to be a gunner and promise to pay you back to make it worthwhile.

Indiana Kelley is better than Wisconsin. And I like Wisconsin. But Kelley is better.

Georgia is good, but it's going to be regional. A degree from Athens is not going to play in NY or the West Coast. Same with Florida.

Thanks. He did get into Indiana/Kelley. Interesting piping's. So much think about. But more importantly, needs to get in some first. I hadn't really taken into account where he would want to work after college and that piece. Austin is super cool but I don't love that its 80% Texans. Same with UGA- just so many in state kids whereas Michigan and Wisconsin more of a mix.

[Anonymous]

Interesting points, not pipings!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on what business major and career objectives are. Wander over to poets and quants to get the skinny on where the tippy top financial wizards are plucking the next generation of robber barons.

1 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 100.00
2 University of Southern California (Marshall) 94.57
3 University of Notre Dame (Mendoza) 88.93
4 Georgetown University (McDonough) 87.65
5 Cornell University (Dyson SC John) 85.71
6 New York University (Stern) 85.35
7 University of Virginia (McIntire) 84.92
8 Washington University in St. Louis (Olin) 83.56
9 University of Michigan (Ross) 81.04
10 Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper) 79.63
11 University of North Carolina (Kenan-Flagler) 79.58
12 Georgia Institute of Technology (Scheller) 79.06
13 Emory University (Goizueta) 76.96
14 Northeastern University (D'Amore-McKim) 75.47
15 Boston University (Questrom) 73.80
16 University of Illinois (Gies) 73.37
17 Villanova University 73.00
18 Tulane University (Freeman) 72.11
19 University of Miami

This is far from a good ranking. It includes alumni satisfaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. Love hearing the feedback. We very likely will not have these 4 options lol. Like beyond unlikely. But thinking ahead because DS got into UGA and was offered money (not a ton) but still waiting on Wisconsin, UT Austin, UF, UNC (won't get in) Michigan, UMD oh and Vanderbilt (ridiculous reach along w. UNC)

I was told Wisconsin was "better" or more competitive than UGA.

I just panicked cause Michigan is a fortune and I know he would want to go on the unlikely chance he got in.

So in a hypothetical gets in everywhere and money is no object situation, it would be Vanderbilt, Michigan, Texas, UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, UMD, Florida.

But everyone has their realities.

Texas and UNC are going to be unlikely. They don't take a lot of OOS. Vanderbilt is very good with financial aid, so if that works, definitely.

The real conundrum is Michigan. Great school. Ross does very well with placement. But it's fricking expensive for OOS. The kid really needs to be a gunner and promise to pay you back to make it worthwhile.

Indiana Kelley is better than Wisconsin. And I like Wisconsin. But Kelley is better.

Georgia is good, but it's going to be regional. A degree from Athens is not going to play in NY or the West Coast. Same with Florida.

One of the PPs here. The one who first brought up regional job markets. I am a mid-career Ross MBA working in the Midwest. I don't really hear of many Ross students coming from or going to the South. I'm sure some do, but it's not a focus area for Michigan students.

OOS U of Mers tend to be very wealthy and the really obvious OOS kids are from the NYC metro area. That builds the school's Northeast connections. Probably helps with Wall Street a little - but that kind of finance has never been a Michigan specialty. That probably explains the Poets and Quants ranking also shown in this thread.

Apparently Californians are among the most mobile for higher education. Partly because there are so many of them, their state schools can't meet all the demand for spaces. So again, U of M has a decent California contingent. They have all sorts of jobs from startups to entertainment law/MBA.

Texas, at times, has been an active hiring market. Some of my classmates went to Dell. Engineer MBAs have a lot of options there.

If you want to get an idea about what Ross BBAs are like, have your kid look up Youtube videos where students review their application files. Did your kid do a good job on the essays? The reviewers are tough. Even on the kids who got in.

I agree with the poster above. To get great payback on Michigan tuition, your kid will need to be more of a gunner (Type A wannabe mover and shaker) and be ready to go where the high-paying jobs are.

Some things that you mentioned later that I think are worth more discussion...Indiana is definitely worth considering. I hear a fair bit about them. I honestly wasn't aware that Wisconsin was even in the B-School game. That is not a slam - that's my truth. Their job market must not overlap much with Michigan people. I visited the Indiana campus this summer and thought it was nice/comparable to Michigan.

The employment geography after graduation issue is critical in my opinion. There are lots of successful senior businesspeople who did not go to a ranked or prestigious school. And usually a lot of favorable hometown sentiment. A fancy degree isn't very helpful if people think you're likely to be something they don't want - a snob, a person who wants too high of a salary, a person from a part of the US they have bias against, etc. Or worse, they aren't really aware of how your school fits into the rankings picture.

H.R. looks at school rankings for salary banding sometimes, but the hiring managers are the ones who usually choose the interviewees and make the final decisions. A lot of people prefer to hire people they feel comfortable with instead of people who have had different experiences from them. That's why home state/local schools often do well.

Again, I think you'll do well by reviewing the career placement info from the schools. I'm not a snob so I think it could come out in favor of U GA. Make your kid use his analytical skills to figure out the financial merits of each option, rather than going on rankings or emotion alone.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. Love hearing the feedback. We very likely will not have these 4 options lol. Like beyond unlikely. But thinking ahead because DS got into UGA and was offered money (not a ton) but still waiting on Wisconsin, UT Austin, UF, UNC (won't get in) Michigan, UMD oh and Vanderbilt (ridiculous reach along w. UNC)

I was told Wisconsin was "better" or more competitive than UGA.

I just panicked cause Michigan is a fortune and I know he would want to go on the unlikely chance he got in.

So in a hypothetical gets in everywhere and money is no object situation, it would be Vanderbilt, Michigan, Texas, UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, UMD, Florida.

But everyone has their realities.

Texas and UNC are going to be unlikely. They don't take a lot of OOS. Vanderbilt is very good with financial aid, so if that works, definitely.

The real conundrum is Michigan. Great school. Ross does very well with placement. But it's fricking expensive for OOS. The kid really needs to be a gunner and promise to pay you back to make it worthwhile.

Indiana Kelley is better than Wisconsin. And I like Wisconsin. But Kelley is better.

Georgia is good, but it's going to be regional. A degree from Athens is not going to play in NY or the West Coast. Same with Florida.

Thanks. He did get into Indiana/Kelley. Interesting piping's. So much think about. But more importantly, needs to get in some first. I hadn't really taken into account where he would want to work after college and that piece. Austin is super cool but I don't love that its 80% Texans. Same with UGA- just so many in state kids whereas Michigan and Wisconsin more of a mix.

So, Indiana/ Kelley is very good. If this is manageable, you are good to go.

Vanderbilt, of course, and then Michigan to make things difficult. Will depend on circumstances

But for business, if you have a direct admit to Kelley, you are in a good spot. Kelley will play nationally. And Bloomington is a pretty good place to go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. Love hearing the feedback. We very likely will not have these 4 options lol. Like beyond unlikely. But thinking ahead because DS got into UGA and was offered money (not a ton) but still waiting on Wisconsin, UT Austin, UF, UNC (won't get in) Michigan, UMD oh and Vanderbilt (ridiculous reach along w. UNC)

I was told Wisconsin was "better" or more competitive than UGA.

I just panicked cause Michigan is a fortune and I know he would want to go on the unlikely chance he got in.

So in a hypothetical gets in everywhere and money is no object situation, it would be Vanderbilt, Michigan, Texas, UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, UMD, Florida.

But everyone has their realities.

Texas and UNC are going to be unlikely. They don't take a lot of OOS. Vanderbilt is very good with financial aid, so if that works, definitely.

The real conundrum is Michigan. Great school. Ross does very well with placement. But it's fricking expensive for OOS. The kid really needs to be a gunner and promise to pay you back to make it worthwhile.

Indiana Kelley is better than Wisconsin. And I like Wisconsin. But Kelley is better.

Georgia is good, but it's going to be regional. A degree from Athens is not going to play in NY or the West Coast. Same with Florida.

One of the PPs here. The one who first brought up regional job markets. I am a mid-career Ross MBA working in the Midwest. I don't really hear of many Ross students coming from or going to the South. I'm sure some do, but it's not a focus area for Michigan students.

OOS U of Mers tend to be very wealthy and the really obvious OOS kids are from the NYC metro area. That builds the school's Northeast connections. Probably helps with Wall Street a little - but that kind of finance has never been a Michigan specialty. That probably explains the Poets and Quants ranking also shown in this thread.

Apparently Californians are among the most mobile for higher education. Partly because there are so many of them, their state schools can't meet all the demand for spaces. So again, U of M has a decent California contingent. They have all sorts of jobs from startups to entertainment law/MBA.

Texas, at times, has been an active hiring market. Some of my classmates went to Dell. Engineer MBAs have a lot of options there.

If you want to get an idea about what Ross BBAs are like, have your kid look up Youtube videos where students review their application files. Did your kid do a good job on the essays? The reviewers are tough. Even on the kids who got in.

I agree with the poster above. To get great payback on Michigan tuition, your kid will need to be more of a gunner (Type A wannabe mover and shaker) and be ready to go where the high-paying jobs are.

Some things that you mentioned later that I think are worth more discussion...Indiana is definitely worth considering. I hear a fair bit about them. I honestly wasn't aware that Wisconsin was even in the B-School game. That is not a slam - that's my truth. Their job market must not overlap much with Michigan people. I visited the Indiana campus this summer and thought it was nice/comparable to Michigan.

The employment geography after graduation issue is critical in my opinion. There are lots of successful senior businesspeople who did not go to a ranked or prestigious school. And usually a lot of favorable hometown sentiment. A fancy degree isn't very helpful if people think you're likely to be something they don't want - a snob, a person who wants too high of a salary, a person from a part of the US they have bias against, etc. Or worse, they aren't really aware of how your school fits into the rankings picture.

H.R. looks at school rankings for salary banding sometimes, but the hiring managers are the ones who usually choose the interviewees and make the final decisions. A lot of people prefer to hire people they feel comfortable with instead of people who have had different experiences from them. That's why home state/local schools often do well.

Again, I think you'll do well by reviewing the career placement info from the schools. I'm not a snob so I think it could come out in favor of U GA. Make your kid use his analytical skills to figure out the financial merits of each option, rather than going on rankings or emotion alone.

Good luck!

+1 Great post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on what business major and career objectives are. Wander over to poets and quants to get the skinny on where the tippy top financial wizards are plucking the next generation of robber barons.

1 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 100.00
2 University of Southern California (Marshall) 94.57
3 University of Notre Dame (Mendoza) 88.93
4 Georgetown University (McDonough) 87.65
5 Cornell University (Dyson SC John) 85.71
6 New York University (Stern) 85.35
7 University of Virginia (McIntire) 84.92
8 Washington University in St. Louis (Olin) 83.56
9 University of Michigan (Ross) 81.04
10 Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper) 79.63
11 University of North Carolina (Kenan-Flagler) 79.58
12 Georgia Institute of Technology (Scheller) 79.06
13 Emory University (Goizueta) 76.96
14 Northeastern University (D'Amore-McKim) 75.47
15 Boston University (Questrom) 73.80
16 University of Illinois (Gies) 73.37
17 Villanova University 73.00
18 Tulane University (Freeman) 72.11
19 University of Miami

This is far from a good ranking. It includes alumni satisfaction.

Uhhh alumni satisfaction should absolutely be part of any ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UT Austin
Then Ross
Then UGA
All of them over Wisconsin.
Are UT Austin and Michigan worth full pay over UGA? Yes they are.

Correct answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. Love hearing the feedback. We very likely will not have these 4 options lol. Like beyond unlikely. But thinking ahead because DS got into UGA and was offered money (not a ton) but still waiting on Wisconsin, UT Austin, UF, UNC (won't get in) Michigan, UMD oh and Vanderbilt (ridiculous reach along w. UNC)

I was told Wisconsin was "better" or more competitive than UGA.

I just panicked cause Michigan is a fortune and I know he would want to go on the unlikely chance he got in.

So in a hypothetical gets in everywhere and money is no object situation, it would be Vanderbilt, Michigan, Texas, UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, UMD, Florida.

But everyone has their realities.

Texas and UNC are going to be unlikely. They don't take a lot of OOS. Vanderbilt is very good with financial aid, so if that works, definitely.

The real conundrum is Michigan. Great school. Ross does very well with placement. But it's fricking expensive for OOS. The kid really needs to be a gunner and promise to pay you back to make it worthwhile.

Indiana Kelley is better than Wisconsin. And I like Wisconsin. But Kelley is better.

Georgia is good, but it's going to be regional. A degree from Athens is not going to play in NY or the West Coast. Same with Florida.

Yes, but GA and FL have the great Ga/FL football game in Jacksonville every year. Glad to see FL mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on what business major and career objectives are. Wander over to poets and quants to get the skinny on where the tippy top financial wizards are plucking the next generation of robber barons.

1 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 100.00
2 University of Southern California (Marshall) 94.57
3 University of Notre Dame (Mendoza) 88.93
4 Georgetown University (McDonough) 87.65
5 Cornell University (Dyson SC John) 85.71
6 New York University (Stern) 85.35
7 University of Virginia (McIntire) 84.92
8 Washington University in St. Louis (Olin) 83.56
9 University of Michigan (Ross) 81.04
10 Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper) 79.63
11 University of North Carolina (Kenan-Flagler) 79.58
12 Georgia Institute of Technology (Scheller) 79.06
13 Emory University (Goizueta) 76.96
14 Northeastern University (D'Amore-McKim) 75.47
15 Boston University (Questrom) 73.80
16 University of Illinois (Gies) 73.37
17 Villanova University 73.00
18 Tulane University (Freeman) 72.11
19 University of Miami

Ridiculous list because it leaves out several top business schools (MIT, UC-Berkeley, & Indiana-Kelley).

Here's the full list. Its methodology is sound. Kelley is #24. MIT and Haas used to be on there but have dropped out; I don't recall the reasoning, but it was explained at the time. I think it had something to do with them not providing the full data that P&Q requested.

https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/rankings/poetsquants-best-undergraduate-business-schools-of-2023/2/

The list is devoid of practical information. UVA lacks a direct admit option, restricting entry to the School of Commerce until the third year. Additionally, UG students are barred from taking courses at their esteemed business school, Darden, renowned for its high-ranking MBA program. Prioritizing a direct admission to the business school becomes crucial in this context. On the contrary, Indiana-Kelley consistently secured a spot in the top 10 rankings over numerous years, making it a great choice especially if the cost is low.

[Anonymous]

How would you prioritize the following options being considered by my DS?

UVA - Instate, no direct admission to business. Will know only in 3rd year and acceptance rate is 40%
VT - InState, direct admit - Management Major
UMich - Direct Admit - Management Major - $80K
NYU - Direct Admit - Management - $90K
UF - Direct admit - Same as UVA
Kelley - Instate fee with scholarship, less than UVA - Management Major
U of SC - Instate fee with scholarship, less than UVA - Risk Mgmt
Georgetown - 80K
The student is seeking a school that provides a strong academic balance to pursue extracurricular activities and has excellent career services for recruiting. Is not particular about finding a job in NYC or SFO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
How would you prioritize the following options being considered by my DS?

UVA - Instate, no direct admission to business. Will know only in 3rd year and acceptance rate is 40%
VT - InState, direct admit - Management Major
UMich - Direct Admit - Management Major - $80K
NYU - Direct Admit - Management - $90K
UF - Direct admit - Same as UVA
Kelley - Instate fee with scholarship, less than UVA - Management Major
U of SC - Instate fee with scholarship, less than UVA - Risk Mgmt
Georgetown - 80K
The student is seeking a school that provides a strong academic balance to pursue extracurricular activities and has excellent career services for recruiting. Is not particular about finding a job in NYC or SFO.

Kelley
VT
U of SC
UF
UVA - If you are ready to gamble getting to business in 3 rd year. What I head is that they heavily consider first year GPA, so a lot of presure on the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UGA or Wisconsin

Texas or Michigan

Or if all 4 were an option

And what if UGA was 30k cheaper than Michigan?

UVA

[Anonymous]

I think Michigan is more than 30k difference over UGA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How would you prioritize the following options being considered by my DS?

UVA - Instate, no direct admission to business. Will know only in 3rd year and acceptance rate is 40%
VT - InState, direct admit - Management Major
UMich - Direct Admit - Management Major - $80K
NYU - Direct Admit - Management - $90K
UF - Direct admit - Same as UVA
Kelley - Instate fee with scholarship, less than UVA - Management Major
U of SC - Instate fee with scholarship, less than UVA - Risk Mgmt
Georgetown - 80K
The student is seeking a school that provides a strong academic balance to pursue extracurricular activities and has excellent career services for recruiting. Is not particular about finding a job in NYC or SFO.

Kelley
VT
U of SC
UF
UVA - If you are ready to gamble getting to business in 3 rd year. What I head is that they heavily consider first year GPA, so a lot of presure on the kid.

Kelley has excellent career services.
Have to be a direct admit.