Science pathways

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm intentionally bumping this Zombie Post to see if folks have any updates to the excellent science teacher post above, particularly for a strong humanities student.

I'm particularly interested in folks with expertise in the science pathways now that Honors for All is the norm.

My strong humanities (MBHS CAP) kid did the standard Honors Biology class this year, and is really frustrated with the pace and lack of interest of her peers.

She's now balking at continuing the Honors Chemistry next year, as she claims it will be more of the same, with kids on their phone all day and wants to switch to AP Physics instead.

I'm not opposed to AP Physics except that it locks her into AP science for the rest of the run, as my understanding is that it is generally frowned upon to take an AP and then "drop down" to Honors.

Anyone have any advice or thoughts? Any reason to expect Honors Chemistry to have more rigor than the Biology course?

The science teacher advice is still good. Your daughter shouldn’t skip Honors Chemistry because it is a prerequisite for AP Environmental Science (and AP Chem and AP bio). I think 9th grade Honors Biology is generally easier than Honors Chemistry because in 9th grade they are being very flexible with kids getting used to high school. In Honors Chemistry students get content they have less general knowledge about and get to learn the joy of applying their algebraic skills in a different content area. A lot of students who got easy As in Hbio switch to regular chemistry for 2nd semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm intentionally bumping this Zombie Post to see if folks have any updates to the excellent science teacher post above, particularly for a strong humanities student.

I'm particularly interested in folks with expertise in the science pathways now that Honors for All is the norm.

My strong humanities (MBHS CAP) kid did the standard Honors Biology class this year, and is really frustrated with the pace and lack of interest of her peers.

She's now balking at continuing the Honors Chemistry next year, as she claims it will be more of the same, with kids on their phone all day and wants to switch to AP Physics instead.

I'm not opposed to AP Physics except that it locks her into AP science for the rest of the run, as my understanding is that it is generally frowned upon to take an AP and then "drop down" to Honors.

Anyone have any advice or thoughts? Any reason to expect Honors Chemistry to have more rigor than the Biology course?

Some kids find Chem more challenging than Bio. Other students find rigor same as Bio. If you know your kid may enjoy the subject of Chem more AND the school allows, get them in AP Chem. A chemist had her kid get into AP Chem w/o her kid taking Chem first. If your kid may require a tutor, stick with Chem (Honors). Some have found on-level Chem super easy and Honors Chem slightly better. You know your kid.

+1 But you need Honors Chem first at Blair to do AP Chem. Honors Chem is not as easy as Honors Bio.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The AP Biology and AP Chemistry courses are designed assuming students have a certain amount of basic knowledge that is covered in Honors Biology and Honors Chemistry. There’s too much content already and the course couldn’t be completed in one year (even double period) if students aren’t already familiar with a lot of the basic ideas.

[Anonymous]

Yes there's movement from Honors Chem to Chem.

MCPS should have another level of Chemistry:
Chem-slower paced
ChemA-medium paced
HonorsChem-faster paced

APChem-after you take one of the Chem intro class

Just as they offer for Algebra 2 Math:
2yrAlgebra2
Algebra2
HonorsAlgebra2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The AP Biology and AP Chemistry courses are designed assuming students have a certain amount of basic knowledge that is covered in Honors Biology and Honors Chemistry. There’s too much content already and the course couldn’t be completed in one year (even double period) if students aren’t already familiar with a lot of the basic ideas.

But then how about Physics? Students take AP Physics without Honors Physics. Physics is offered Honors, but no on-level Physics. And schools offer various AP level Physics courses. Confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The AP Biology and AP Chemistry courses are designed assuming students have a certain amount of basic knowledge that is covered in Honors Biology and Honors Chemistry. There’s too much content already and the course couldn’t be completed in one year (even double period) if students aren’t already familiar with a lot of the basic ideas.

But then how about Physics? Students take AP Physics without Honors Physics. Physics is offered Honors, but no on-level Physics. And schools offer various AP level Physics courses. Confusing.

There is on level Physics, Honors Physics, AP Physics 1 & 2, and Physics C and Physic EM.

AP Physics is non Calculus based physics. That said, it shouldn’t be taken by students not already at Alg2 or Pre-Cal. Further it has one if not the lowest AP exam pass rate. There is a whole series of threads here about the class.

[Anonymous]

In our school, the most competitive science oriented students double up on Honors Bio and Honors Chem in 9th. This is in an effort to get all of the AP Science classes in before graduation. AP Chemistry double period can be done sophomore year, then AP Bio (Senior Preference) and AP Physics C can be slotted in depending on availability and math level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes there's movement from Honors Chem to Chem.

MCPS should have another level of Chemistry:
Chem-slower paced
ChemA-medium paced
HonorsChem-faster paced

APChem-after you take one of the Chem intro class

Just as they offer for Algebra 2 Math:
2yrAlgebra2
Algebra2
HonorsAlgebra2

They have three levels:

- Chem (non honors)
- Honors chem
- DP honors Chem which isn’t actually a double period but a full credit class taught in a single semester rather than a year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes there's movement from Honors Chem to Chem.

MCPS should have another level of Chemistry:
Chem-slower paced
ChemA-medium paced
HonorsChem-faster paced

APChem-after you take one of the Chem intro class

Just as they offer for Algebra 2 Math:
2yrAlgebra2
Algebra2
HonorsAlgebra2

They have three levels:

- Chem (non honors)
- Honors chem
- DP honors Chem which isn’t actually a double period but a full credit class taught in a single semester rather than a year

What happens after a half year science course? What other half year courses can fill the schedule?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

It's because College Board offers "non-manor" level AP Physics 1,2 (like AP precalc) but doesn't offer the equivalent AP Chem or Bio, only the Univerisity level versions.

Honors Bio/Chem are essentially equivalent in their field to AP Physics 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our school, the most competitive science oriented students double up on Honors Bio and Honors Chem in 9th. This is in an effort to get all of the AP Science classes in before graduation. AP Chemistry double period can be done sophomore year, then AP Bio (Senior Preference) and AP Physics C can be slotted in depending on availability and math level.

Is there a single period AP Bio or Chem option?

3 years of each of Bio or Chem is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

It's because College Board offers "non-manor" level AP Physics 1,2 (like AP precalc) but doesn't offer the equivalent AP Chem or Bio, only the Univerisity level versions.

Honors Bio/Chem are essentially equivalent in their field to AP Physics 1.

Um, no they aren’t. Honors Bio & Honors Chem are equivalent to Honors Physics. All three together cover the Next Generation Science Standards.

Physics content is just different from Chemistry and Biology. It has units that are very distinct from each other (mechanics and E&M being the first two). The problem solving and critical thinking levels track with mathematical level. That’s why the different levels are prerequisites - that is covered with math sequencing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our school, the most competitive science oriented students double up on Honors Bio and Honors Chem in 9th. This is in an effort to get all of the AP Science classes in before graduation. AP Chemistry double period can be done sophomore year, then AP Bio (Senior Preference) and AP Physics C can be slotted in depending on availability and math level.

I think the problem here is that, other than magnet students, kids are not encouraged to take the double science course their freshman year. In fact, a lot of kids are actively discouraged from taking it and encouraged to take a full year of PE instead.

It also requires parents and students to understand that the double science period freshman year is the only way to be in a science class with other motivated students, since the "Honors" Biology course includes a bunch of kids who are on the slowest possible science path and just hit honors biology junior year.

Basically, it's another case kids and families need to do their own research and can't accept the recommendations coming into course selection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The AP Biology and AP Chemistry courses are designed assuming students have a certain amount of basic knowledge that is covered in Honors Biology and Honors Chemistry. There’s too much content already and the course couldn’t be completed in one year (even double period) if students aren’t already familiar with a lot of the basic ideas.

But then how about Physics? Students take AP Physics without Honors Physics. Physics is offered Honors, but no on-level Physics. And schools offer various AP level Physics courses. Confusing.

There is on level Physics, Honors Physics, AP Physics 1 & 2, and Physics C and Physic EM.

AP Physics is non Calculus based physics. That said, it shouldn’t be taken by students not already at Alg2 or Pre-Cal. Further it has one if not the lowest AP exam pass rate. There is a whole series of threads here about the class.

The physics courses you listed are not offered at every HS, even though MCPS course bulletin will list these courses. For those families looking, better to check with your child's HS to find out what will be offered for the next school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

It's because College Board offers "non-manor" level AP Physics 1,2 (like AP precalc) but doesn't offer the equivalent AP Chem or Bio, only the Univerisity level versions.

Honors Bio/Chem are essentially equivalent in their field to AP Physics 1.

Um, no they aren’t. Honors Bio & Honors Chem are equivalent to Honors Physics. All three together cover the Next Generation Science Standards.

Physics content is just different from Chemistry and Biology. It has units that are very distinct from each other (mechanics and E&M being the first two). The problem solving and critical thinking levels track with mathematical level. That’s why the different levels are prerequisites - that is covered with math sequencing.

In my school, Chemistry requires geometry prerequisite.