DC is hacking Internet gamesites - is this OK?

[Anonymous]

It started with the hacking software you can download from some sites. Now he's downloaded and is teaching himself Visual Basic so he can go to the next level.

My question is, how much of this is OK, and where does it start bordering on the illegal? We've explained that hacking into membership/paid sites is like stealing. We've also tried to channel this in positive directions, like writing iPhone apps, but that may be beyond his abilities (he just turned 12).

[Anonymous]

It's not okay! Make him stop NOW! Are these gambling sites? I don't know what the legal repercussions are, but many sites, including Facebook, have age and grade limits. Facebook users are supposed to be at least 13 AND in high school. I'm sure gambling sites are for those 18 and older. Do some research as to the legal implications.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely make him stop!

My DC is 12, I broke down and bought him an xbox 360 for Christmas. During the holiday break, he discovered on youtube instructions on how to use a credit card from some website to gain access to a subscription game. I took away his xbox and gave him a heavy lecture on how he or I could land in prison for theft.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank goodness he's not hacking into gambling sites, nor has he used stolen credit cards. Yesterday he showed me what he does - he only gets a max of 1 hour screen time per day (2 hours if he reads for 1 hour), so he's pretty easy to monitor. I will warn him about not doing any of these things involving stolen credit cards, in any case, so he has advanced notice that it's wrong!

What he does do is hack into free, age-appropriate (no sex or violence) sites. I agree, he should probably stop. But for my ammunition against this: does anybody know if what he's doing, as I've described it, is actually illegal?

[Anonymous]

What do you mean by hacking? What is he doing that you're calling it hacking? I'm not following. If it's free, open access and age appropriate, where's the hacking?

Using stolen credit cards is ILLEGAL.

Also, you can get into mischief online in five minutes so I'm not following your reasoning there.

With a child like this, I would monitor all email, Facebook and other accounts. Friending your child on FB is not enough. You need to go in and see what all of his friends are saying, posting, too. I check my son's emails now and then. I'll stop the day I stop finding evidence that he's done things like signed up for porn sites. (He's 13.)

[jsteele]

I have to say that I admire his initiative. Learning Visual Basic at 12 would be a real accomplishment. That said, whenever you interfere with the operation of a computer system, you could potentially face some legal consequences. The site he is "hacking" probably has some sort of "Terms of Service" posted. You should get a copy of that and read over it. It will give you an idea of the activities they frown upon.

It's also possible that what he is actually doing is using "cheats", which could be in more of a gray area. I would be inclined to give him a little leeway on this as long as a side effect is advancing his programing capabilities.

[Anonymous]

I just checked Facebook's TOS. They keep changing it, as everyone knows. They dropped the high school requirement. Users have to be 13. #8 is interesting. I know middle schoolers whose parents have their children's passwords so they can monitor their accounts. (Including me.)

# Registration and Account Security

Facebook users provide their real names and information, and we need your help to keep it that way. Here are some commitments you make to us relating to registering and maintaining the security of your account:

1. You will not provide any false personal information on Facebook, or create an account for anyone other than yourself without permission.
2. You will not create more than one personal profile.
3. If we disable your account, you will not create another one without our permission.
4. You will not use your personal profile for your own commercial gain (such as selling your status update to an advertiser).
5. You will not use Facebook if you are under 13.
6. You will not use Facebook if you are a convicted sex offender.
7. You will keep your contact information accurate and up-to-date.
8. You will not share your password, (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account.
9. You will not transfer your account (including any page or application you administer) to anyone without first getting our written permission.
10. If you select a username for your account we reserve the right to remove or reclaim it if we believe appropriate (such as when a trademark owner complains about a username that does not closely relate to a user's actual name).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It started with the hacking software you can download from some sites. Now he's downloaded and is teaching himself Visual Basic so he can go to the next level.

My question is, how much of this is OK, and where does it start bordering on the illegal? We've explained that hacking into membership/paid sites is like stealing. We've also tried to channel this in positive directions, like writing iPhone apps, but that may be beyond his abilities (he just turned 12).

It isn't like stealing, it IS stealing. Make sure he understands that.

That said, it doesn't sound like he is actually hacking if he is going into free sites. It doesn't sound like you have a clear understanding yet of what he is doing. I'd suggest you sit down with him and have him show you exactly what he is doing. Consider installing software that will monitor (keystroke monitoring, for instance) exactly what he is doing. Learning VisualBasic is great, but perhaps a class or purchased software might be a better route. THere is a lot of trouble you can get into on the internet, and it sounds like his abilities outstrip yours, which means he'll be able to cover his tracks from you. (inadvertantly or on purpose)

[Anonymous]

Hacking is more like trespassing than stealing, though some hacking mixes elements of both, and it can be illegal. I'm all over this because this is one area where parents can be clueless. (I posted 10:24, 14:30 and 14:37.)

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/computer-hacking/
Computer hacking is broadly defined as intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access. Various state and federal laws govern computer hacking.

[Anonymous]

Also do you know about the History function on Firefox? You can monitor activity there, too.

[Anonymous]

He may be using "cheats", which seem to fit the description of what he's been doing. He downloads them from other websites, as do some of his friends. These are pre-written programs, which can be tweaked somewhat by the user, to increase a player's power or skill level, or savings in the game's bank (not a real bank!), and things of that I'll.

He is not hacking into Facebook. Also, I think we're on the same page about using stolen credit cards, even if I stuck the word "like" in there unnecessarily.

What I'm concerned about is taking this further, using visual basic. Clearly I need to set some limits now, and that's what I'm asking about. The advice to read the "terms of usage is helpful". Also, I've been trying to find ways to channel his interest in programming into good ways, if anybody has ideas about that.

To repeat my post of 2:00, he's not using stolen credit cards, and won't.
I think describing him as "a child like this" is going a little far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He may be using "cheats", which seem to fit the description of what he's been doing. He downloads them from other websites, as do some of his friends. These are pre-written programs, which can be tweaked somewhat by the user, to increase a player's power or skill level, or savings in the game's bank (not a real bank!), and things of that I'll.

He is not hacking into Facebook. Also, I think we're on the same page about using stolen credit cards, even if I stuck the word "like" in there unnecessarily.

What I'm concerned about is taking this further, using visual basic. Clearly I need to set some limits now, and that's what I'm asking about. The advice to read the "terms of usage is helpful". Also, I've been trying to find ways to channel his interest in programming into good ways, if anybody has ideas about that.

To repeat my post of 2:00, he's not using stolen credit cards, and won't.
I think describing him as "a child like this" is going a little far.

My son who did try using a credit card from another site to obtain an xbox game subscription isn't "a child like this." He thought it was a good idea and wanted to up his xbox playing. He made the decision to follow some youtube gamer's instructions on the spur of the moment. When I found out I was absolutely shocked he hadn't considered what he was trying to do as stealing. He said that he didn't realize he was doing something wrong. He learned a lesson on identity theft.

I was relieved that the card he used was invalid and that I caught him.

[Anonymous]

I'm the one who called him "a child like this" and I meant no harm, all I meant is a child like the one you describe: smart, creative and interested in the Internet. My child is a child like this, I meant it in solidarity. I'm not familiar with cheats. My son set up a bogus account on MySpace which of course is against the TOS but did I know that two years ago. He also put stuff on YouTube without prior approval. So we've learned along the way what boundaries to set up. As for FB, my points above are for when he starts using it. I found Grade Six and Seven to be the most challenging as far as monitoring Internet use goes. Every child's different. It's create that you're interested. I know too many parents who aren't.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:He may be using "cheats", which seem to fit the description of what he's been doing. He downloads them from other websites, as do some of his friends. These are pre-written programs, which can be tweaked somewhat by the user, to increase a player's power or skill level, or savings in the game's bank (not a real bank!), and things of that I'll.

He is not hacking into Facebook. Also, I think we're on the same page about using stolen credit cards, even if I stuck the word "like" in there unnecessarily.

What I'm concerned about is taking this further, using visual basic. Clearly I need to set some limits now, and that's what I'm asking about. The advice to read the "terms of usage is helpful". Also, I've been trying to find ways to channel his interest in programming into good ways, if anybody has ideas about that.

To repeat my post of 2:00, he's not using stolen credit cards, and won't.
I think describing him as "a child like this" is going a little far.

Using "cheats" may get him kicked off a website, but probably won't get him in legal problems. Especially as long as no real money is involved. At this point and for the foreseeable future, he likely to do far less damage to anything with his own VisualBasic code than with stuff that can be downloaded. There is some really dangerous code available for download. It will be a long time before his own skills will be at a level to rival that stuff. So, I'd actually feel a little more comfortable having him spend a month or two trying to find a way to give his game character a special power rather than downloading a script from some website that might do real damage.

Channelling kids' energy is difficult. They can be really motivated by games, but completely bored by the idea of a more legitimate project. I'd suggest letting him create his own games, but the last thing you want is for him to start hosting games that allow outsiders onto your home network. You might check out the Lego Mindstorms and see what he thinks about that. Or, suggest a few small programming challenges such as a task tracker to keep him occupied. But, check what he is working on regarding the games now. It might be legitimate or semi-legitimate and something that you can allow him to pursue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the one who called him "a child like this" and I meant no harm, all I meant is a child like the one you describe: smart, creative and interested in the Internet. My child is a child like this, I meant it in solidarity. I'm not familiar with cheats. My son set up a bogus account on MySpace which of course is against the TOS but did I know that two years ago. He also put stuff on YouTube without prior approval. So we've learned along the way what boundaries to set up. As for FB, my points above are for when he starts using it. I found Grade Six and Seven to be the most challenging as far as monitoring Internet use goes. Every child's different. It's create that you're interested. I know too many parents who aren't.

Thanks for explaining, was feeling some parental guilt. Would have never guessed that he would try something like that.